Actually, if you think about that, it could pose a big problem. If we went to war with China, we would be able to strike them from our bases in South Korea. Which would mean that China would have to attack South Korea, which would bring then S.Korea onto our side, and N.Korea with China. So, we'd still have to deal with a huge army.

And yes, if we went to war with them, it would be WW3. As I just stated, it would drag the Korean peninsula into the conflict, and would also drag Japan into it (we've got troops in Okinawa, remember?). Which would create a snowball effect, dragging more and more countries into the war.

Yeah. Not even taking to the debate of whether we should fight or not, there really doesn't seem to be a scenario, other than nuclear, where the US loses. And in the nuclear scenario, everybody loses. Don't get me wrong. It would be bloody, but we'd win.

Great, another US vs China thread.

Collin Powell said the US wouldn't intervene for a reason. Rice, though? She might just be dumb enough to do the opposite.

Who cares. Let them have Taiwan.

I have great respect for both of them and take offense to your anti-Rice comment but neither of them are the President and are thus not the final say on the matter.

I do recall something about Powell's comments of a China/Taiwan situation but not specifically. Did he actually, especially as the SoS, that the US would take no action in an invasion of Taiwan? Too lazy and apathetic to hit Google so I'm taking the "casual conversation" approach to this discussion.

Hey look, over reaction! Anyway, for hypothetical purposes:

Let's just hope all the **** doesn't hit the fan at once:

This just in, Kashmir under fire!

North Korea decides it's time to unite!

Isreal vs Palestine... and Saudi Arabia. And Iran. And Syria. And...

East Timor... round two!

Russia decides to reform the soviet union!

Civil war in Germany! (Well, we already entered crazy land, but hey, isn't east Germany still in considerably worse shape than west? Haven't updated my brain since 1990 though...)

Yeah, and a whole slew of other problems that are ready to burst ANY SECOND NOW!

Y'know. Why don't we just blow ourselves to hell thrice fold all ready. It's gonna happen eventually so no time like the present.

And who knows. Soon after World War III, some alcoholic scientist from Montana might invent faster than light travel and end up bringing aliens with Elvish ears to our little dump in the galaxy.

I don't believe in a China - Taiwan war right now. China would lose too much internationally and gain too little by starting a war now, and on the other hand the extreme pro independence politicians in Taiwan have had a tendency to lose elections.

If the general situation in the world changes a lot, like big wars start elsewhere and the world would be in turmoil, then I doubt China would hesitate a minute to occupy that island nation.

that's good jedigandalf.

unless the US lobs neclear weapons at them, there are no weapons or munitions on 20 battle groups that could take out a significant portion of 1,400,000,000 people.
the munitions supply would have to be continuous and the attack would have to be relentless for a very long time.
it actually took a second bomb for japan to say 'holy ****! what the **** was that?'
this is a communist nation where deserters are shot on the spot without a trial. and even those deserters have the pride of 5000 years of culture backing their motivation to fight a possibly losing battle.
if the US did actually win a war with china, they may never recover. with iraq costing american tax payers close to $200,000,000,000 (did bush get the extra cash he wanted?), $7,700,000,000,000 debt, $350,000,000,000 deficit and the loss of china, the fastest growing economy on earth the likes of which has never been seen, as a buyer...
a war with china would cost much more than the invasion and occupation of iraq. many times more.
even to support of taiwan would cost alot of money.
and when it would be all over there would probably be well over 1,300,000,000 people left in china that the US would have to worry about. and that would cost hundreds of billions more into the future.

it's just not cost effective for the US to get militarily involved with china. and we all know the only thing that matters to the american government is cash.

They're not president but their jobs involve advising the president on such matters. That's why they have an administration running the country and not just one guy.

They may advise the President but their primary function is to represent his policy. Also, we don't elect an administration. We elect a president. The administration's function is to carry out the president's agenda. Not the other way around.

We don't need to kill every last soldier. We have to kill their ability to make war(factories, weapon and vehicle depots, etc). We can destroy their main ways of warfare, then pick them apart from a distance. We can also bring the war to the citizens and make them tired of it and want to end it(this was how the Civil War and WWII Pacific was won).

It took Japan a second bomb to realize they HAD to forsake their honor code and surrender. They knew they were all but defeated before, but they were resolved to fight until the last man because they viewed surrendering as a disgrace and unacceptable. China doesn't have an attitude that extreme since the fervor of Mao died out and even now China is trying to move to a more capitalistic system(though in the process they are not democratizing, but that will have to happen anyway), so a banner of "For Communism!" isn't going to work. China also has problems with national pride in their people, hence there attempts to stir it up with space launches, puffing their chest and threatening other countries, etc.

Well, hopefully we get something better than a bloody desert war. ... a war in the desert! How fascinating.

Well, I guess I'll see you on the beaches lads !

I believe its been decided that if the US ever goes to war with China, we'll end it quickly with a surgical strike against their political leadership.

Bar that, there's no way we could "lose" the war. China has no means of invading the United States; a million man army is pretty useless for anything except defense when you don't have a navy to go with it.

So, in a US vs. China war, the US would be on the offensive. If we didn't take out their leadership, we could simply destroy them conventionally with naval bombardment and air raids. Cruise missiles and MOABs would make short work of the "world's largest standing army".

Also, it would be pretty easy to starve the civilian populace.

Warlord speaks the truth.

Clearly you aren't well informed about the current US arsenal...especially in air power. They could easily destroy major military installations, cities and other cirtical points that would cripple the nation. They could kill off leaders and important figures, crippling the nation. All those people aren't going to fight to start, let alone if they haven't got any leaders or moral.

It almost took three bombs. The didn't just surrender after the second, they took their sweet time.

China lacks the means to mobilize most of its military, and if a war were to start, resources would be diverted into their war effort, which would starve their own population. We wouldn't have to fight or kill everyone in China, just cripple them.

This potentially could be pretty bad :(, or nothing at all.

Anyways, China has the largest army in the world....

And all they can do is swim up to an aircraft carrier and beat the hull with the butt of their rifles.

its hilarious how many of you knwo nOTHING about chinese foreign policy. they are so not concerned with world domination. they're claiming back any territory they originally had. as for them authorizing attack if taiwan moves towards declaring independance, well heres what i have to say:

if taiwan moves to indepence now, it will only be to burn china, so they deserve it. why will it be only to burn china you ask? because since 1990 china's been slowly under construction, economically. sure taiwan is still a helluvahlot more capitalist and chinas pretty socialist still but if i hear one more person say that they are full out commies im gonna have a hissy. go read "China's Future". it gives you many perspectives. european, american, taiwanese, and chinese on the issue. so taiwan isnt really making a stand for its anti-communist ways by declaring independance since china's own people have pretty much been rejecting communism for over a decade. the point has been made, now if taiwan heads towards independance it'll only to kick china in the knee and frnakly. china will sit on taiwan if that happens.

We know that. And they have no right to do so.



If the US steps in and blasts the hell out of them, they deserve it for trying to deny Taiwan freedom.



So then what form of tyranny would you like to call it?

The reason that Taiwan would move toward independence is because it's home to the Chinese government-in-exile, and said government does not want to be part of a Communist China.



Simply because the Chinese Communist party doesn't have as much of a hold on the government as it did 20 years ago doesn't mean the country is not officially communist.



Agreed. The Cold War ended a while ago.

That would be so stupid to invade... ( I mean for the United States to)

Nobody interfered when we declared independence from the British, except the British, I don't see why the U.S. has to... let diplomacy take it's course.

But then again, we didn't have nukes back then...

Umm, maybe you need to go read up on your history, because we received all sorts of help from France during the American Revolution.

Second, we wouldn't start the war. China would by attacking Taiwan.

I want a video of that.

And my god, Monoxide, how old are you? I mean...we had asstons of help from France (mostly to spite Britain though), and so have we traditionally helped or tried to help independence of other nations. South Vietnam, just to name one.

Taiwan is scaring China into acting by launching a massive arms race with them. It won't be as simple as China "sitting on them," Taiwan is capable of putting up some resistance.

Do you guys happen to have any articles about how the US could kick China's ***? Because they would be really useful for the essay I'm writing (for my concession). I'd really appreciate the help.

First off, let me make something clear. Taiwan is its own country. However, it is not reckonized by the UN because them not recognizing it was part of the deal in getting China into the UN. No matter how often China says "We have hegemony over Taiwan", they don't because they can't enforce their laws in that area.

And I personally don't have specific articles to point to. My opinion is formed from accumulated knowledge from various places (like weapon specs books, comparing economies, classes, etc).

All I know is that if the US of A sends troops to fight China Bush will have to start back up the Draft I say whose up for a rode-trip to Canada?:p

I don't think the draft would get restarted because we wouldn't be invading China. All we would send would be the battlegroups and then maybe some troops to defend Taiwan.

As others in this thread have said already, all we need to do is bombard them and take out strategic locations/people. We'd simply choke them until defeated.

Edit: Sorry, connection. I'm pretty much in the same boat as Kieran. Although, there was one article that quoted a Chinese insider or something, saying that China couldn't take more than two US carrier battlegroups. I'm not sure who had the article though.

I relize that but we are short on troops as it is and the Draft is an opption that is always open for him

Not without consent from Congress. The only reason that such an initiative would be needed is if occupation of China was intended, and I can't honestly anyone getting that through the proper channels and approved.

So China doesn't actually have Taiwan at this point, but they like thinking they do. They will attack if Taiwan tries to correct their delusions. Smart!

You know, I almost wish they'd start a draft just so we could run a bunch of people to Canada.

Amen.

Dude, what did Canada do to deserve that? They aren't that bad. Hell, they are even stuck living in the frigid arctic wasteland of the north, and you want to make it worse? For shame!

Har de har har. :p

Call me silly but I call bluff. I mean China is basically saying their only way to really get Taiwan back is by using ground troops, this would in fact leave them vulnerable. Just because they say they can do it, does it mean in fact they can. I mean we don't even have to call a war, we can just move some Pacific fleet out from Japan and be there in no time. That's a helluva "road"block.

Seeing as how it would be VERY stupid for China to revert to missiles- afterall they're after Taiwan and Taiwan only. It's not like they would want to destroy it, so a blocked land invasion can only end in a retreat. Considering how they got their ships, it's doubtful they could really be any match for the US Navy.

I feel they're just using the America/Iraq thing as leverage to make bluffs to try get Taiwan to surrender. I mean...it's Taiwan, it's not nuke-war worthy by a long shot.

Biggest question of all, if a land invasion would be THAT important why make this a largely known fact in the first place? That screams pure intimidation over actual force.

Granted, there IS the possibility they could be planning something else and use the land invasion bluff as a ruse. However what else is there? Each soldier swimming to Taiwan?

Technology would be too much of a deciding factor in this, which we could intervene without actually causing a war. Yes people, it is possible.