<3

Yoshi - of course you won't see any evidence. I'm not saying that Bush is going to get kickbacks, but if he does, he'll be sure to keep them hush-hush.

If drilling in the ANWR were to actually make a noticable difference, I would support it. But as is, the oil present there isn't going to help jack.

Animal abuse pics were banned

And Wuss, I don't see how I am ranting and raving. I am responding to everyones posts.

I bet they put Baseball on the terrorist list too.

Just cause.

SAJN you still haven't answered my question, are you anti-abortion?

I know you want me to answer no, so you can say AHA! YOU WILL KILL BABIES BUT NOT SEALS! Then the thread will fly off course...like it is into an abortion debate! So I am not going to answer yes or no, you can PM me if you want to talk.

I'm just asking for yes or no, I won't say another word of this issue.

Wow. Conspiracy theorist much?

I believe in innocent until proven guilty. Now I don't like Bush--I despise his foreign policy, don't much care for his domestic, and just don't really agree with him (except on privatizing SSI). But I'm not going to go around saying he and Cheney are people looking out only for themselves and getting money via lies, cheats, hax, what have you, on anything without PROOF.

Neither is the man an idiot. He's not a good speaker--so what? He's not very good with some words--so what? I mean, there have been a lot of EXTREMELY intelligent people in the world who weren't very good at other subjects. Seriously, to say that the man's an idiot because he's made mistakes in his presentations is to just undermine your own intelligence at extrapolating the meaning behind his befuddled talk (though I will agree that some of the mistakes are fairly hilarious). Now you may have other reasons to call him an idiot, and if so, state them.

All I'm saying is that anything that comes from the US and is bought by the US people furthers our economy. That includes oil. Considering we're pulling out of a recession, that's something we need. Less buying of exports, more buying of imports. Basic economics. Moving a few animals carefully won't hurt anybody or anything. If a few die, oh well, more die in hunting season alone, and never see any more use than a stuffed, dead head on a wall. At the very worst, we'll destroy a minor part of the habitat and have to repair it (well not the very worst, but the most likely worst outcome).

Seriously, stop making mountains out of mole hills.

You know.....while the U.S. is constructing in Canada......*cough*

Except Alaska isn't in Canada,....but I get your point.

Hahahaha.... *hoards Canada's oil*

You aren't getting OUR ~2 trillion barrels

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4542853/

http://lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

Heh, yeah that's very basic economics but too advanced for you apparently.

If you want your economy to expand as in a recovery after a recession you need to export more and import less, not the other way around.

Gross Domestic Product = Comsumption + Investment + Government spending + (Exports - Imports)

So for GDP to increase the desire is a higher level of exports and a lower level of imports.

Not knowing a few words is different then not knowing the entire dictionary.
He took us to war without a plan or a proper reason.
He ruined the economy.
The Child Left Behind Act and The Patriot Act are making things worse not better.
It's also not the fact that he can't speak, it's the fact that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. When he talks he not only fumbles with words he fumbles with thoughts and entire subjects.
Plus in the past didn't he do cocain at one point, and he was a drunk.
Well even if he wasn't his daughters are now.
I could go on and on about why he's an idiot. Like you said I have no 'proof', but I mean it's just obvious. It's like a person puts a gun in their mouth you shut your eyes and hear a bang! What's more likley, the person shot himself in the head, or a ninja dropped from the roof pulled the trigger in his mouth and ran off? You don't have proof the man killed himself, but you can be pretty sure. Just like I can't PROVE Bush is a money grubbing jerk, but it's still pretty obvious.

SAJN, seriously, stop before you lose all credibility. I respect you defending your opinions, but they lack any base., and yes I am including what you think is so obvious.

It's also obvious that you aren't much more intelligent than he is if you think that the fact his daughters live crazy lives makes him an idiot. He didn't become the president just because his daddy had been a president before him. He must've known what he was doing somewhere along the line.

That's...what...I said. I said we need to pay for stuff that's on American soil instead of buying imports.

Or were you talking to SAJN?

Ric--do you know how many people would kill for 50 cents less a gallon? That's 1.80 for your higher end gas prices, 1.30 for those around here. Good god, you would save an average of 10 bucks on a tank of gas, if not more!

Sajn--


And basically, the rest of it, you're saying "Yeah, bush is a money grubbing jerk because I want him to be like it..."

Lots of people want the tooth fairy to be real.

Yet who still gives out the dollars to the kids who lost their teeth.

I don't get it. Congress voted to drill Alaska, not Bush.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. Nothing at all. If you want to debate abortion politics, then start another thread.

No, I respectfully disagree. SAJN got it right on what I was asking for, if someone argues for animal rights, then logically they should be anti-abortion. He knew what I was hoping he would answer.

Postscript, this is Nubs, just on Bucks lappy.

You said list reasons why he was an idiot, doing drugs is on my list and I think that's reasonable.



I was just saying either he or his daughters were drunks I couldn't remember if it was just him or he and his daughters.



His father being president had something to do with him being president. I can't say exactly how much thought.

...no. The two issues are seperate. It would be just as silly for me to say that pro-life people should be anti-death penalty.

He was an idiot. And it was in college. Some odd what, 20, 30 years before his presidency?

His daughters have nothing to do with him. They're old enough to live their lives--let them, instead of forcing them into their father's shadow.

And his father being president may have had something to do with it for the first election, but people obviously realize he was good for the US and/or liked him because he got voted in a second term

Well, you've got animals being killed, and from my standpoint humans being killed, both unfairly, and indeed painfully. You could also argue that no one has the right to do that to either party.

Economy is ruined? *looks around* Is there a depression going on and I didn't get the memo?

I'm not a big fan of Patriot Act myself.

I SUCK at speaking publically. I'm nervious, jittery, nonsensicle. I fumble words. I look like an idiot on stage. I don't think I'm a dumbass.

Hi SAJN, welcome to today. He did that in his youth. He grew past that.

His daughters screwed up. Young people do stupid ****.

If it's obvious that Bush is a "money grubbing jerk" then you should be able to prove it.

Edit: Partially beaten.

yeah, that part about cooking oil is true, although you have to retrofit your car to get it to work.

http://www.bebioenergy.com/straight_vegetable_oil.htm

also, how would it be tax evasion?

Alaska lets you club those seals, SAJN...

Err, no you didnt...

A good produced and consumed domestically is, by definition, not an 'import'. If we're talking about the American economy an import is something produced and payed for in another country, but consumed in America. You said Americans need to buy more imports...



Ok you probably thought you knew what you were saying, but please, dont quote 'simple economics' if you're going to spurt junk like that.

aw man! NOW where are the animals going to live? certainly not in the REST of Alaska where there isn't anything!

Seriously people, it honestly is not that big of a deal. Alaska is mostly unpopulated, and the wildlife refuge in question is mostly tundra. It's not the end of the world here.

No, that seriously was a miswording. Trust me, I just got done with economics.

Damnit, now I seem like an idiot for a typo. Oh wait, I'm not. Does this situation seem familiar kids?

And there is the core of the abortion argument. Are humans being harmed? Pro-choicers certainly don't think that they approve of killing babies, nor do pro-lifers think that they seeking to interfere with a woman's rights. It's not so much an argument as to whether abortion is right or wrong as it is a debate as to whether fetuses qualify as people. If the point could be definitively proved one way or the other, I believe a lot of minds would be swayed.

Yet this has nothing to do with drilling for oil in an Alaskan wildlife refuge.

DAMNIT.

That is not the argument at hand.

THIS IS AN ARGUMENT ABOUT ENVIROMENTALISM...

Go start an abortion thread if you want to argue about it.

I'd like to try and get rid of the rhetoric you guys are using, these are your arguments as I see them.

Point 1. They're ruining an environment preserve
Counter 1. There's plenty of environment out there

Point 2. Bush is runing the economy
Counter 2. We may have the largest debt/deficit in history BUT WE'RE NOT IN A DEPRESSION!

Point 3. Bush is probably getting kickbacks
Counter 3. OMG CONSPIRACY

Point 4. Bush should choke on a baseball bat
Counter 4. Bush didn't do it! His administration did it!

Do these counterpoints not sound ridiculous? Only mature responses please.

1. He's dyslexic. Do some research.
2. I assume you are going to whine and claim that he lied? Not going to work.
3. Proof? It looks like it's doing pretty well to me.
4. No comment.
5. See #1.
6. And you wanted to vote for Kerry, a guy who shot fleeing teenagers in the back? And let's not even get started on his slut daughters.

Yoshi - that's 50 cents per barrel. Which may translate into 1-2 cents per gallon of gas, if even that. It's not going to save anybody any money. The point is, drilling in ANWR is going to be fruitless. It won't make a significant impact at all.

Can we please return to the topic at hand, rather than attacking each other? This topic merits further discussion.

Dyslexia DOES NOT make a person studder.


I'm dyslexic, I don't studder.

However, being dyslexic does not in any way limit someones intelligence. So I won't go there.

Research horizontal drilling and other new methods used by drilling companies. There will probably be some impact, but not terrible amounts.

Exactly, so I refuse to further contribute to any similar arguments made in this thread. :p

I misread then, my mistake. But still, we don't know for sure how heavily it'll impact until...it does.

Everybody is still ignoring the point, so I'm going to put it in large, annoying, red letters:

Drilling for oil in the ANWR will not significantly impact our oil supply or our oil prices.

I really want somebody to prove me wrong.

Edit - this is for Yoshi's argument:



Really, read over http://lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/ and take a look at his references. The guy has done his research. He's not crying doomsday.