http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+will+affect+you/2100-1028_3-5697111.html

The Real ID act has been passed through both house and senate. In three years, american citizens will be issued a federally approved identification card that will be electronically read, and most signs indicate that RFID technology will be used. The federal government will have access to a number of things. This will allow them to peer into your medical records. It will also act as a fire-arm registration system. Why is no one making a fuss? The entire point of creating the federal government was so it couldn't have this much power.

I agree. Unless Bush vetoes it (unlikely), we're all screwed. I saw this a while back, when it passed 100-0 in the senate (damn uneducated lawmen). But I figure there's not much we can do right now as a people.

It sucks.

Rebel, start a revolution.
Throw a rock at somebody.

That's the problem. We should be able to do something as the people. It's our ****ing government. It's there to serve us, not herd us.

At 16, there's not much I can do.

Maybe when I'm 18 I'll see what I can do, but right now I'm stuck waiting for this thing to hopefully be denied at the executive level, and never be brought up again (unlikely).

You forget, most of the people here are teenagers. There's not much they can do about anything.

Sorry dude, I'd love to see this shot down as much as you, but even if we were to want it to get shot down, it seems lately that the delegates we choose couldn't give a **** less about what we think and want.

Welcome to the real world, fellas.

Im 18 I can vote! WHAT DOES THAT MEAN!!!!!!?!?!?!??!!? (nothing, nothing at all )

You guys always focus on the negative, what about the fact that more illegal immigrants (roughly 7-8 million) who are sucking up jobs with 20 or 30 working off of the same social security number accross the country will be deported. That has a definite promise to bring our economy back up, but I guess a lot of you kids dont really give a **** because mommy and daddy take care of all that for you anyway...I know I probably wouldn't if I were still young.

Quite honestly, despite the whole "Big Brother" fear, this may be what this violent nation needs. Think of the future of this as well. The card could hold certain medical information like mental illness, or long term depression which would make the person inelligible to purchase or operate a firearm. The mention of airlines is huge as well, think if we had this system 5 years ago 9-11 could have been a bestselling fictional book by Tom Clancy.

I'm not saying I am directly for this, I'm just saying, don't always focus on the negative. Don't always listen to your conspiracy theorist father(mother?) ramble on about the government trying to f*** us (personal situation). Learn the facts[/b], formulate your own opinions based on those facts[/b], not on other people's opinions.

Tony Blair wants to do something along these lines, with ID cards. Why whine if you've got nothing to hide?

I don't like being treated like I'm a criminal.

And Tony, would you like to have a camera in your toilet? I guess not. But what have you got to hide?
The state doesn't need to know everything about me. It should always be my choice what I let them know.

I hate how this "war on terrorism" is used to cut our rights. What Palpatine did in RotS doesn't sound too far-fetched to me.

Heh. A Star Wars reference.

I'd just like to point out to the assembly that a huge part of of the basis of the United States of America is that the Federal government should be as small and unobtrusive as possible. Personally, I believe in a slightly stronger Executive, but I'm also a believer in the Bill of Rights.

THAT IS NOT THE POINT.

The point is, it's none of their buisness.

*plays the Imperial Marching Song*

I need to devise a way to have my soon to be stormie armor to play the Imperial March..

That'd be funny.

It doesn't appear to be anything more than a measure against fraud concerning government services.

And I didn't read anywhere that they could have access to medical records...

I, personally, do not trust the bureaucracy to handle all this. They're still slow and inefficient. Imagine the line @ the DMV now that they have to process all of this stuff. It'll just be like the line for Episode 3.

Oh and one of my favorite quotes still applies

Heh, all of this "big brother!!!" crap.

National ID cards are a very practical way of proving who you are. It always amuses me when applying for loans or passports or anything, the only forms of identification you have are Driver's Liscence or Birth Certificate. And the US doesn't even have any national legislation governing driver's liscences either.
I think that's silly. Some sort of national ID that you can produce and prove who you are would avoid a huge load of paperwork, bureaucracy and general unnecessary fuss. I don't believe for a second that it would do anything against 'terrorism', that's just the buzzword nowadays to get things adequate funding, or that it would have any great effect on illegal immigrants. But it would be generally very practical.

It's a lovely little quote, but like most of those oneliners, it's complete crap. (Benjamin Franklin said it, so it must be true!)
The state must provide security, and that will inevitably infringe upon 'freedoms'. CCTV cameras have been invaluable in shop security, but that is infringing upon your right to privacy. But you don't care. You just take it for granted and it doesn't matter. Your 'freedom!!' is being infringed upon, but you don't care. And why should you?
Protecting national security, keeping the population alive, is fairly obviously going to be the primary concern of any government. That will inevitably encroach upon civil liberties, and the more at risk a nation is at the time then it will do so moreso.

But when will it stop? It's just goin to get worse and worse until we all have a barcode electronically tattoed on the back of our necks to monitor you and watch you all the time.... But hey, your not a criminal, why would you care about that?

Yeah, the 'slippery-slope' arguments always foretell doom and gloom, and they never actually have any logical justification. Why would it get worse and worse?
Does the government just want to barcode everyone for fun? I mean, it would be pretty amusing, but there really isn't that much point.
Most European countries have had national ID cards for some time, and none of them have plunged into authoritarian misery just yet.

Being a member of a society, you give up certain rights so you can maintain others.

Why would it get worse and worse? Obviously so the government can tighten their control on the population. As technology improves, they will be able to do this.

Uhh... You think having a national id card is the only way to deport illegal aliens? Did you not see the story where it took FBI agents 220,000 to bribe over a dozen law enforcement issues at the border between the US and mexico? They let millions worth of illegal drugs and traffickers in the country for an average of about $10k each. And we need id cards for the law-abiding citizens?

You're going on the assumption that the government has an inherent right to view and use our personal information. The governement is there to SERVE US not spy on us. They have no right to my information, whether or not I have something to hide. My medical conditions are MY business and that of my doctor which I choose. It's not the business of the federal government. It's not the business of state or local governments. Whether I have a concealed pistol permit in the state of WA should not be accessible by any other state or federal government - firearms inside a state are under the jurisdiction of said state and they have no right to release that information to anyone. Remember what happened in CA? First they started requiring everyone who had a semi-automatic rifle to register them. They claimed it was for security and whatnot. Once everyone registered (under the assurance that the information was only to be used for law-enforcement), CA banned them. And then they had a record of everyone in the state who registered theirs, and they went door-to-door taking them with NO COMPENSATION. Wait till the feds ban something.

Not true. They tried to pass national ID cards a couple of years ago, but it failed miserably. So they invented this real ID thing and tacked it onto a military spending bill (what?) that nobody would vote against ("oh boo hoo our military needs funding you can't be evil and not give money to our patriotic troops!"). They are forcing states to change their driver's licenses (which are NOT id cards, they are licenses to drive) into ID cards and share all information with the feds. They are now required to take electronic and paper copies of things like your birth certificate, social security card, etc., and also they are taking a 3d scan of your face (for facial recognition in places like airports - GIVE ME A BREAK facial recognition has been shown to be error-prone and completely unreliable).

Why should I have to prove who I am? Who the hell cares whether a bank or a store knows who I am? This is not required information. I should be able to open an account and put money there w/out showing anything. Why does everyone have to know who I am? Who taught you that this is something that should be required? The only thing I should have to prove is that I am a citizen, and a birth certificate is good enough for that (born here, you are a citizen). And I should only have to prove that when I go for some sort of government assistance OR when trying to get back into this country if I ever visit somewhere else. This whole idea that it's the governments right or responsibility to track every individual on its soil is absolutely INSANE. Plus, they're easy to forge anyway, so it won't help anything!
No they aren't, I can choose to shop elsewhere. This isn't a requirement by the government, it's someone exercising their right to record on their property. That is a whole other issue and not related to forced national id cards. Well, it has been getting worse and worse ever since forever. Things in this front aren't getting better, they're getting worse. You think people have always had to show positive identification to open a bank account or a safe-deposit box? NOPE this was only created after the terrorist attacks on the WTC. Used to be, you could walk into a bank, tell them a name and get an account number. That's the way it should be. They are using the tragic deaths of 3k people as an excuse to completely take away our basic rights. Most european countries have twice or more the tax rate of america, most can't defend themselves if they had to, and most don't even allow their citizens the equipment they need to protect themselves. Don't give me this crap about how europe is all good, I've been there, done that. I've seen the economic situation, I've seen the blank-cd taxes they pass to make big businesses happy, I've seen the outrageous gas prices, I've seen the quality of the military bases. Don't underestimate what is going on here, it's serious business.

I love you Brian. I was about to come in and respond to all those posts, but you said everything I needed to say.

I was about to post something, but DAMN did Brian ever answer them.

Some of you are way too paranoid.

Ha ha ha.

ID cards are lame. DNA scanners are the only way to go.

Also, I agree with everything Mort-Hog has said. I was going to say something more, but I'll just wait until he replies to all your annoying conservative egotesticle garbage.

Aside from your obvious barb as opposed to constructive discussion, I'd like to point out that all these things have been introduced and implemented by "conservatives" - Bush invented and forced through the dept. of homeland security, Bush's people did the patriot act and the real ID bill, so why are you billing my comments as conservative when it's obviously against the views of our "conservative leaders?"

Bush and his has completely switched the meaning of the word conservative, so much so that I no longer consider myself even close to a conservative if Bush's policy and people represent conservatism.

Personally, I advocate a country in which the people are actually free, not this psuedo-freedom that the US has nowadays. People should be able to own land and not pay rent (in the form of property tax) - all taxes should be on income or expenditures, not on property that we've already purchased and owned. Used items should not be taxed, only new items. Health care expenses should be tax deductable, and other than that everyone should have a flat tax. We should strip the IRS down to the bare minimum (which would be easy if the tax system was simplified). I advocate an election system in which party/candidate information is freely available but not force-fed using billions of dollars for commercials and flyers and junk mail. The average citizen should have just as much a chance to get elected as some rich oil baron. I advocate a government that puts its nose where it DOES belong - in issues that affect all of us - environmental issues, the expansion of human rights (not the limiting of them), the repeal of silly and inconsequential laws instead of spending every year creating new ones. I advocate a constitution that guarantees that important issues (like national ID cards and things like the patriot act) get voted on by the people, not the damn congressmen that don't represent the people regardless of all their claims. We need a government that makes sense, not one that bows to groups like the RIAA and MPAA. We need a government that represents us as people, not a government that resents and suspects us.

Frankly, the 9/11 attacks would have gone off w/out a hitch even had we had REAL ID and the patriot act back then. The people hijacked planes with BOX KNIVES which were perfectly legal to bring on a plane at the time. These knee-jerk reaction laws that take away our basic freedoms won't solve anything, they'll just waste more of my money and yours.

I look forward to Mort's post. At least he has something to say, unlike those who simply dismiss this all together.

I would like to be the first to point out that "just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you."

IDs for everyone will make things easier for people who don't drive (a license being the main age-identifying id at the moment). I'm getting my driver's license soon, though. At the moment I'm not really sure what to think.

I fail to see how this is a bad thing. Brian, you seem to claim that there is no need for identification, but I cannot see how you actually believe that. How can businesses verify if you're using your own credit card? How can bars know how old you are? How can airports know if you're the person who actually bought the ticket? There are so many reasons for identification.

Everyone acts like this is a violation of privacy, but I really don't see how it is. So what, the government knows your age, eye color, hair color, and a few other identifying characteristics. This is a fricken ID, not a credit report, medical report, or a detailed account of your entire life since you were five. A national ID is a perfectly reasonable approach to identification.

Yeah my post was somewhere between that.

Oh, and you'd probably need retinal scanners too, because twins have the same DNA (right?). But I suppose a really advanced retinal scanner could do both. This is, of course, ignoring the fact that it's incredibly more complex and expensive than a simple card. But how cool would it be?

Yes!

Exactly. Not to mention it sets a huge precedent for the government to track us however they want. I mean, it's not that far fetched to say that they could put GPS tracking chips in the cards within a few decades. And I don't know about you, but I don't want the government to know everything about me.

And Mort--it means plenty. Why give up freedoms to guarantee your safety so that you may continue a nation built on freedoms?

I'd rather die tomorrow in a terrorist bombing than give up freedoms to save my life. I'd rather live in a nation that gave more freedoms and less protection than anything else. Why do people value the length of life more than the quality of life?

Actually, CA already has GPS trackers and remote shut-off on big-rigs (semi trucks). They don't like what you are doing, they can shut your car off in the middle of the road. Of course that's where things are going, but they don't want you to see that. They already use little black boxes inside newer vehicles to record and report information to police (even though it's not legal to get to said information w/out a warrant, check out the news today, they are trying to expand the patriot act to get even more search, seizure, and wiretapping/internet tapping powers w/out the approval of a judge - even more proof that it *is* getting worse).

I'm with you, I'd rather be free and at risk than live in a little rubber room where I couldn't possibly do damage to myself... *sigh*

I think the mandatory helmet laws back in the day got more coverage than this REAL ID crap -- shows you what wimps we've all become.

Brian, you rock my socks.

Or maybe it's because there's nothing wrong with the ID.

Okay, how about this. You want a national ID card, let's just abolish all state governments and make everything controlled by the feds. At least that way we won't spend 50x the amount of money re-implementing things for each state. If we're all going to be held to national standards of identification, why bother with state governments at all? Let's just let the feds control everything.

Sounds like you care a little too much, Brian. Honestly, yeah, it's NOT the governments right to know all that stuff about you... but who cares? I would value an ID system other than a drivers liscense... considering I can't drive. Not to mention, if the government knows you got a wart removed 2 years ago, are you really going to feel 'violated' because they have that data on file?

You all talk as if 'the man' is trying to 'beat' you, or is 'winning' something with these IDs. That's a load of bull. The government does what it does to SERVE. Even with national security, do you think shoveling money into our protection is something bush is doing to OPPRESS you? Give me a break, you're all just looking for a reason to hate the guy, instead of disagree with him. The same goes for these IDs.

JediKirby

Hahahaha. Kirby, I don't care how good your english tells you you are at writing, don't let your history teacher convince you you've got a good political standing.

The government was created to serve--true.

The government's main function is to server the people--true.

The above two are still easily seen in today's government--false.

The government has become a body to make money and once in a while pass a law or two here or there for the people. If they pass laws it's to give themselves more power and/or money.

And it's not so much that Bush is doing it to oppress us, it's that our government (you forget Bush is not the only governing body in our government) wants to exert as much control over its people as possible. Why not, it makes their jobs easier?

Oh right, because we have these things called freedoms that were guaranteed us in the constitution which just so happens to be what our entire country was based on. And protecting us from these 'terrorist threats' takes away said freedoms.