You know that states issue IDs that are similar to drivers liscenses for people who are unable to drive, right?

The problem with this Real ID thing is it's one step closer to "go ahead, prove you're innocent" rather than "you're innocent until proven guilty." Everything about you will be linked to this ID, and if states don't comply with that, the federal government stops funding them. Does that not strike anyone as odd? That the federal government will have to force states to comply by threatening to take away money in order for this thing to work. Do you know why? Because every attempt at this before was shot down. Why do none of you think it's odd that the only time this thing passed was when it was attached to a military funding bill? Does that not seem sly to you? And this will stop identity theft? Because we all know the best way to protect your identity is by keeping your entire record in your pocket...

And for more than once I've had something revoked, or I've had to send in a form or something before I could get something because those IDs aren't as "Accepted" as the drivers liscense. Sure, that shouldn't be the case, but I'm absolutelly not joking. I've been denied access to a 16 and up concert thing before, until I talked to the guy that I know who works there. All because it wasn't a drivers, it was an ID. I guess they can be faked easier, or something like that.

I hate to tell you, Kirb, but this won't fix that. There will still be a seperate ID for citizens who cannot drive. This act just forces states to put electronic data on those IDs.

Casually ignoring the remark about sensible gun control legislation, even if all of that is true, it doesn't do anything to address the point I made. This isn't a "europe is good! europe is bad!" dialogue.
Europe implemented this very system. Has it gone down a slippery slope to increased authoritarian rule? No.
The commitment to social welfare, gun control and size of military are all irrelevant because that has nothing to do with ID cards and is not an effect of their implementation. It all existed before ID cards and hasn't changed much since. Nothing much has changed since ID cards.

And of course you have to prove who you are. Do you expect banks and that just to take your word for it? Identity theft is a huge problem and a huge cost, and requiring you to prove that you are who you say you are will make identity theft much more difficult. Your government conspiracy claims are dubious at best; fraud is actually a real problem.

Going off on a tangent about your distaste for government in general, and arbritrary preference for "state's rights" doesn't add anything either. But does it really matter whether legislation is coming from a federal level, or from a state level? It's legislation either way.

Actually I voted for that ahole but I would take it back if I had a do-over.

Yes, it does. States are massive. A state is far more capable of passing legislation that will aid its population than a body 3,000 miles away. A city boy would have no idea what a farmer needed, just as a farmer wouldn't know what a city boy needed.

the reason no one brought it up is no in the US really cares anyomre what the government does. with all the controversy over politcs, war, policy and all kinds of other things, where the fundamental rights of citizens are in question, where are the protests? where are the so called other side of the divided country? why have the american people allowed this administration so deep into their privacy without making a peep?
never mind bush and his conservatives. never mind septemeber 11th and the iraq war. what have the american people bent over and taken it from the government for the past 4 years? this is soooo not like americans.

People care. They just waste all their time *****ing instead of doing anything.

I barely skimmed the thread but seems to me to be the typical Massassi over-reaction and misunderstanding of material.

From the article:



OH MY GOD! HOW EXTREME! There's actually going to be federal standards that will help prevent fraud and security risks.

Simply because my vote means nothing. Simply because there are never any candidates that one can actually get excited about (well other than Arnold but he's not in my state).

I'm thoroughly afraid of this thread already, as it appears that I totally agree with Wookie on this one.

Hell hath frozen over.

Where is there proof that requiring a national id card will somehow help security? Are you trying to imply that it's hard or impossible to get a fake ID? hahahahahahah

No. But mandating security features, as this bill does, makes it more difficult.

Okay, the information must be verified, unlike now, the card must contain all of the information digitally, unlike now, the information must be in a machine language commonly accesible, unlike now, will contain no more private information than an individual is already required to provide, like now, and will be issued by states, also like now.

You privacy nuts don't have a leg to stand on. Figuratively speaking, of course. And even if the DoHS did try to add a requirement that violates the Supreme Courts interpretation of privacy, some "civil liberties" organization will sue and prevent that requirement.

Check and mate.

Seriously did you not read anything anyone wrote? It does hold more information than my current ID has - it has my freaking social security number, "COMMONLY ACCESSIBLE" which means anyone who grabs my card can get *all* my information. They should call this the Insecurity card instead. And now, I'm required to provide it to my state government, with whom it stays unless the feds can get a warrant from a federal judge. Under the new rules, my information will be distributed to *every* state government and federal agency. The more people that have access to private information, the more fraud that will happen. You thought ID theft was a problem before...

And the freaking court is stacked with people put there by rich politicians who never represented me in the first place, what makes you think their interpretation is any better than anyone else's interpretation? As I mentioned before, after the scandal with the law enforcement agency's being bribed at the border, I find it extremely surprising that you still have any faith whatsoever in the integrity of law enforcement.

And where's the proof that a national ID will destroy state governments and violate our privacy? As the artical said, this isn't really a national ID. It's the government setting up some specific paramaters so each states ID will work well together.

And that is all you are capable of doing?




...am I reading your post wrong? Because I'm pretty sure drivers licenses have had SS #'s on them for quite some time.

What?!

Well, in my state at least.

No, SSN are not displayed on all ID cards currently. Brian, here's the problem(s) with the SSN issue. We've passively allowed SSN to become the standard by which almost all information is handled in our personal business. I believe that never should have been allowed to transpire but people like you and me and our parents never thought about that until we see what has been happening now with regards to identity theft. So I understand the basis for your concern. Knowing you to be reasonable, as I believe you think I am, then you must agree that it is somewhat ironic to be critical of the government using a government issued number as part of the way it verifies identity. That's almost like complaing about surrending a state issued license to a state trooper upon request.

I did not read in the article that the SSN would be displayed on the card. I read that it would be verified and that the data would be contained digitally on the card. So you're afraid the government is going to do something sneaky with you SSN when you scan it for federal identity verification purposes when the government gave you the number to begin with?

Your state sucks.

I don't have a problem with the feds knowing my SSN. I have a problem with them connecting it to my freaking medical records, and giving it out along with the rest of my personal information to every state in the union (even ones I've never been to). The information available on the card is not only available to feds - everyone will have scanners, bars, state offices, grocery stores, etc.

Okay but, as I clearly stated, the article doesn't portray any of that being the case. I would of course have those same reservations if those type of things were happening. That's why I said this is typical Massassi over-reaction and misunderstanding.

And if you're worried about privacy, why would you be swiping your card at bars and grocery stores? I sure as hell won't!

Because if the RFID technology is implemented, which it very will may be, you won't NEED to swipe it. You just walk by and the RFID scanner picks up the signal emmintating from your left rear pants pocket.

And if RFID is implemented, it would be the worst thing ever. If they think stalking, information security and privacy is all going to hell now, what stops me, the recently-divorced government worker to take one of the RFID scanners from work and follow my ex-wife around, tracking her RFID signature.
Or a stalker who goes to the mall, hooks up a black box he found schematics for on the internet to his laptop, and starts reading suddenly knows everything about the lady behind him, from the romance novel she bought twenty minutes ago to her dental records.

I'm against the National ID card, but I can live to accept it. RFID technology and tagging, however, I will fight to. the. bitter. end.

Because they will start requiring it, don't you get it?

Regardless of all this, it's not my job to prove that it's unnecessary, it's the job of whoever wants to pass these silly bills to tell us WHY they are passing it, prove that it's necessary, prove that it's feasible, and prove that it will work (in that it will actually accomplish the goal).

I'm not convinced of *any* of that. I don't see how it will make us any more secure, and in fact, I think it will make us LESS secure, because we'll be more prone to information abuse and identity theft. It will make those that create fake IDs have only 1 card they need to mimic, not 50. It will give the government undue access to our personal lives and it provides no benefit. I think the states were doing a good enough job keeping track of their citizens, why spend billions on federalizing it? None of this even makes sense.

This thread frustrates Yoshi whom cannot vote, and has no say in his government.

Because if it were up to Yoshi, the Alabama delegate would get a good piece of Yoshi's mind on the situation.

I'm not so much worried about the bill. It's not a big deal, really.

It's the PRECEDENT and the kind of crap that this, combined with the Patriot Act and other such similar legislation that scares me.

Nobody cares what someone named "Yoshi" has to say.

They'd be all "ME NO LIKE YOSHI. BRING US ONE NAMED HANK. HANK LIKE CHICKEN. WE LIKE CHICKEN."

...I'm up for a revolution. Technically us Americans have the right to uprise against our country, if they make decisions we deem unjust. Technically.

I smolder with generic rage.

Monoxide--you also run the risk of being caught, tried for treason, and executed or imprisoned for life for said treason.

Have fun with that!

I don't like the movement of power to the federal government over state and local government because I think that is part of the entire growing problem in America.\

When everything is controlled at the capitol by senators and the executive branch, people care less and less about government. When the people of a few neighborhoods can't come together and decide simple things like zoning, because some higher up body has the jurisdiction, how can you expect people to do anything but sit back and complain?

They can't do anything because the power to do so was long ago entrusted to a proxy that isn't doing anything about it.

Staten Island is a borough of NYC. It voted over a decade ago to cecede from NYC because the people decided they were being shafted. It falls on Albany to decide whether or not that cecession is legal, and they simply choose not to debate it, so Staten Island is still part of NYC. Maybe it worked out fine anyway, but the point is that an actual referendum vote was ignored because the people don't have jurisdiction.

See, this is why Ohio rocks.

Our driver's licenses only have SSN's on them if you tell them you want it on there. Otherwise, it doesn't get printed on there.

Frankly, I look at this at the same way as the currency issue back during the Articles of Confederation. Every state had a different currency, and changing back and forth whenever you crossed a border was crazy.

Our state IDs are hardly compatible with other state's systems. This becomes more and more problematic as people tend to leave the state more and more.

All the federal government is doing is getting the states to get along a little more in terms of drivers licenses. It'll waste less of everyone's time. It's not CHANGING the information already available, simply making it easier to handle.

No, I really don't get that part. It's too conspiratorial for me. I find no legitimate reason that private businesses would require any sort of scanning for routine transactions such as buying groceries. The entire point of implementing the system is to ensure the information is verified. Routine business wouldn't require that information. Airline checkpoints are a different matter and I have no problem with the government verifying my identity with information that it already has.

I'll admit that RFID technology is troubling if it was implemented in a way that anyone could intercept it. I find it interesting to note, though, that the card may not actually contain the information. It might contain card issue data that valid organizations can use to cross reference.

Just seems like knee jerk reaction to conspiratorial theories. And, happydud, I hope you're not confusing this with the national ID card deal. According to the article these would probably be security measures incorporated in state ID cards. I find it interesting that there's such a controversy over a national ID card when almost all of us already carry at least a state ID card.

i'm shocked by this. I thought I was keeping up with what was going on lately but I had no idea this could happen like this.

If we all hate it, and our states and the federal government are both going to try to impose it.. Why don't we simply refuse to sign up for these new cards. I know i'm not interested in it one bit. This is our government and if they won't do what we need and want them to, we should do it ourselves.

If enough people refuse the cards the government can't do anything about it. There aren't enough jail cells in america for that. It won't take long for mainstream Christianity to start calling this the "mark of the beast" (not that I believe it is) that alone could stop tons of people from getting it.

Lets all just refuse the cards. Mark of the beast or no

actually what I thought when I read the article...but that could be that I just watched something about the anti-christ on the history channel >_>

Um, what do you think they check when you go into a bar? What do you think they check when you try to rent a rated R movie? What do you think they check when you sign up for a movie rental account? What do you think they check when you try to cash a check made out to you? You're trying to rationalize a poor decision and you haven't answered the real questions I posted in my other post. Anyway, I'm tired of this, it's like abortion, either you get it or you don't.

1. Sometimes an ID.
2. nothing.
3. nothing.
4. nothing.

They LOOK at your ID. I see no evidence that they're suddenly going to start scanning them. If they do, refuse. The only thing they need to verify is age and that will be clearly printed on the card just as it is now. There will be NO real change in the information printed on the card from what is present now. What will change is how it is verified or, rather, that it WILL actually be verified. It's like abortion, either you get it or you don't.

I couldn't care less about the card.

What I'm worried about is the growing corruptness of the legislature. I'm worried that this ID card passed because it was tacked onto a military spending bill when chances are it would not have passed on its own merits. Why are we letting the legislature get away with this? It doesn't get more corrupt than this.

It sounds to me like it's time to give a number of politicians a swift kick to the ***.

Amen! We should just impeach all our politicians for what ever reason we can think of and then elect Massassians to rule the galaxy!..............(as in democratically serve the people's republic of America)

Yeah, they did that on purpose because they knew damn well the real ID act would not pass if it was on its own. Knowing this, every single person (lawmaker) who supported it is a dirty *******. I think it's pathetic that lawmakers nowadays think of their job as a mandate to do what's "best" for us, rather than what we want - this is supposed to be representative democracy.