I'm a Christian and I'm responding to something I think firefox said.. It is true that god can't be conventionally proven but, neither can Caesar. There is evidence that he lived but there's no proof. There's coins and even librarys full of books about him. And because there's overwhelming evidence that Caesar existed, it's a common belief that he did exist.

It's the same for God. And there's evidence that God exists. Evidence also exists in the records of all world civilizations. From prehistoric times, the idea of God has existed in the mind of man. Perhaps that's because the idea of a supreme being who made the world "makes sense."

The concept of God is what scientists call a "highly convenient hypothesis." In other words, it fits- as if our minds have a "feel" for God. This is so true that when people reject the idea of God, they always subsitute something else; humanists and New Agers worship nature and believe people are or can become gods. One reason God makes sense is that the human mind seems to be on an endless quest to know the cause and origin of things. Where did this world come from?

The sea that teems with fish, the sun that flames with energy, the invisible particles of dust that swirl in the air- what caused them? If they "evolved" from other things, what caused the things from which they came? Is it more sensible to believe in an infinite, eternal God or to imagine that once there was nothing that over eons of time developed into something- with no force to start it happening? It's next to impossible to believe that our universe evolved accidentally into such vast, beautiful, complex precision as we see around us.

Our universe contains roughly 100 billion galaxies. Each galaxy holds about 100 billion stars and perhaps as many planets. The astronomer who charts the vast intricacies of the universe must believe in God or assume that such things happened by chance. One molecule of human DNA, far too tiny to be seen by the naked eye, is a complex ladder of 100 million or so twists and about 100 billion atoms. The biologist who probes DNA must acknowledge God's design or imagine that this astoundingly complicated building block of life developed on its own, like a jigsaw puzzle of 100 billion pieces that assembles itself in a box.

Some of the most convincing evidences of God's existence are people's experiences. Professor and author Paul Little cites the prisoners on the Malay Peninsula during World War II. These men in a Japenese POW camp "had been reduced almost to animals, stealing food from their buddies, who were also starving." The unbelieving men, however began reading the New Testament. As a result, "This group of scrounging, clawing humans was transformed into a communtiy of love... a touching and powerful story that demonstrates clearly the reality of God in Christ Jesus"(from Know Why You Believe, by Paul E. Little, Victor Books).

An alcoholic who hasn't had a sober moment for three years, suddenly- in one night- announces that his life has been changed and he's stopped drinking. A shy widow who's lived a quiet life in a peaceful village becomes popular among Jews wishing to escape the horrors of Nazi Germany because of her stubborn courage in helping them escape. A teenager who has often contemplated suicide because of loneliness finds hope- even happiness- in prayer, Bible reading and selfless devotion to her church.

In each of these cases, the change came about because someone believed in God. Events such as these happen daily. They can't prove God's existence, of course. But they don't have to, because that's not the way God planned things. The writer of the book of Hebrews in the Bible makes it clear what the bottom line is:We must have faith to please God, "because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him" (Hebrews 11:6).

People will looks from here to eternity for proof of God's existence. But we can't nail God down with proofs. He's infinitely greater than our puny efforts to understand Him. We can only take hold of God with the grasp of faith. We must "believe that He exists." When we believe in Him and earnestly seek Him in his Word and among His people, He'll reveal himself to us and others through us.


[This message has been edited by Owen (edited May 08, 2004).]

Well constructed, and well presented.

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There is no signature

wow...

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<Outlaw_Torn> you mean your related to that damned sasquatch, Mech?
<MechWarrior> Lets just say the part of the family tree that does fork has bossy the goat in it.

<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?

Oh boy this is going to be fun to watch....

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"This thread is still alive? Someone should kill it."

I was instantly blinded once i saw all that white text after seeing such dark colors on the forums...

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There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.
The Matrix Unplugged|My Portfolio|My Levels

/me preps some marshmellows to roast on the coming flames...

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I used to believe that we must fight the future, lest change come without our consent. I was wrong. The truth is that we must embrace the future, for only with change can we remain the same.

No Cazor, that was me stabbing your eyes out. It's relatively the same amount of pain which is why you didn't notice.

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Saberopus: omfq musical genuis j00 >mozart
Thrawn42689: Mozart = n00b

I've always thought that it was belief in anything, any god, or even no god, that can help people overcome troubles, not any specific religion.

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I'm just here for the free food

It's always amusing to see how many posts happen before someone actually responds to the argument.

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"This thread is still alive? Someone should kill it."

I don't think many people are even going to attempt to read that. No offense, Owen, but that's frelling huge. i don't have the attention span to read it all.

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"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
Scions of Light[/i]
The Never Ending Story Squared[/i]

Hypocritically enough, i just read the entire thing. Good argument, i must say, and i'm religious, so i won't argue against it. But one thing: next time, use paragraphs, Owen.

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"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
Scions of Light[/i]
The Never Ending Story Squared[/i]

*nails Owen to a cross for not using paragraphs*

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Is Wayne Brady going to have to choke a *****?

Can we throw stones at him now?

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<Outlaw_Torn> you mean your related to that damned sasquatch, Mech?
<MechWarrior> Lets just say the part of the family tree that does fork has bossy the goat in it.

<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?

enter and space bar are your friends

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Blue, no yellow, AHHHHHHHHHH

Wow...err, yes, next time please split it up into paragraphs.

I'm sorry to say that your argument isn't really all that great. But then again, of course I'm going to say that.

Alright, now to begin. Nothing can be proven, that's a sort of exaggeration for effect. In our discussions it usually means that there is enough evidence that it'd be hard not to accept it. There is very little vidence for God, and a whole lot of evidence for Caesar. Plus, what about Caesar would cause someone to say "No way, that's too far fetched! It can't be true!" Nothing, really. That's the major difference. Plus, and I am not going to cite sources for this because I'm lazy and it's an entire research paper i'm sure, but there is I THINK much more hard evidence for Caesar than for God. If you would like to research that, we'd all be interested, I'm sure.

The idea of God existing in man has nothing to do with whether or not he exists. It's just the easiest to comprehend solution to the hardest to answer question. Not everyone who rejects the idea of God replaces it with something else. For example, me. This is what I'd like to cite as a first-person source.

You ask whether it is more sensible to believe in an infinite and eternal creator or a complex system out of nothing. Let me ask YOU a question: what created God? Where did he come from? Out of nothing? Did he always exist? Your theory has the same shortcomings as any other. However, I feel that taking away the idea of a creator simplifies the idea without sacrificing anything.

Yes, many of those people DO believe it happened by chance. And many don't.

Finally, your anecdotes have nothing to do with whether or not God is real. In fact, they support the idea that the human need for something higher to believe in is important. So important that even if one didn't exist...they'd need to create one. You see, there are more explanations.

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WOOSH|-----@%

edit: actually, I stopped caring....


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Is Wayne Brady going to have to choke a *****?

[This message has been edited by Kieran Horn (edited May 02, 2004).]

I can think of tons and tons of examples to prove that wrong, but I've really grown to dislike discussing religion at Massassi. Ergo, I don't want to get involved in one.

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Genesis 22:2-5 - And God said unto Abraham "You must kill your son, Isaac." And Abraham said "What? I can't hear you! You'll have to speak into the microphone." And God said "Check, check, check, check. Jerry, can you pull the high end out. I'm getting some hiss up here."
Valuable Life Lesson: Frog + Potato Gun = Blindness

Catalog of Electronic Components - Complete IC data sheets
National Electrical Code® (NEC®) Online - Legal requirements for wiring projects.

Well the hell do people have the goddamn need to post these ridiculous comments on every single thread that could be deemed controversial?!?!? Get a life.

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"If there's one thing I've learned it's this - you just can't shake hands with a fist" - David Allen Coe

I don't believe in the CHRISTIAN God for these reasons:

1.) According to what I have heard, those who do not believe in God automatically go to Hell. Now, there are a bunch of people in the world who do not believe in the Christian God because of their surroundings. They believe in another form of religion. It doesn't make sense that God would just let those people be doomed to hell from the beginning.

2.) Quality of Life - I mean... why does one who lives a luxurious life get the same treatment as one who is starving in Africa? If I EARNED my money by working hard, why am I punished fro spending it however I want to? The whole deal with Job in the Bible is BS... I mean why would a God who is so fair and righteous be doing petty tests on his subjects? Why does he have us constantly prove ourselves?

3.) Paradoxes. Many of you might have heard this but stuff like, "If God can do anything, can he make a meal so big that He Himself cannot eat?"

4.) The whole dinosaur issue... According to some people, dinosaurs were buried by the devil to make humans doubt God. Now, we have done scientific tests to prove how old dinosaur bones are (and according to the results, the earth is much older than what Christians believe.. but that's another point) and if the Devil wanted to make us doubt God, I'm sure she can find some other way to do that.

5.) Miracles and other BS - When's the last miracle in where someone talked to God and led people to glory? Lately, it seems everyone who talks to God is crazy and does bad things when they "talk" to Him. Why do all the miracles happen in the Bible and hasn't happened in the real world in a super long time? Also, why doesn't God flood the Earth again? I mean, people today are filled with sinners, murderers, thieves and what not. God might as well start over again with Human 3.0

6.) What created God? How was he just THERE in the first place? Its just as unbelievable as the belief that molecules in space collided to start the Big Bang to bring us where we are today.

7.) Text from the Bible has been proven WRONG. In the middle ages, religious groups always believed that the earth was the center of the universe. Now we believe in the heliocentric theory in which the sun is in the center of our universe. If the Bible is supposed to be God's word, then why is there a discrepency?

There's more but I don't wanna write a book on it.

Now to Owen's paragraph:
1. What more do you want in proof? How do I know that a man walked on the moon? I didn't see him do it... Just because someone writes about a common idea doesn't mean its true. For example, there are multiple stories of a Santa Claus-like figure in many civilizations. It doesn't mean its true. Santa-Claus wasn't an idea that was spread over time in civilizations as well. Many varieties of Santa came about from different civilizations during about the same time.

2. How do you know God existed in the mind of man during prehistoric times? The key term is prehistoric, i.e. before history, i.e. before writing. I don't see how you would know what people thousands of years ago were thinking about, considering the fact that you don't even know how to translate what they were thinking in the first place. Since most thought is limited to our language that we speak, then how would you get what prehistoric men were thinking?

3. Your substitution theory of how people substitute God is false. I don't substitute God for anything else. I believe people live their lives day-by-day and in the end, when we die, we just go to a sort of "sleep." Our bodily processes stop and that is that. We're just the same as roadkill.

4. Human experiences don't mean ****. If I saw Bigfoot, does that mean that its really there? Or how about the Loch Ness monster? If I read the teachings of Hitler and it changed my life, does that mean whatever he says its true/right?

Bleh, there's so many holes in religion, its not even funny.




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My Tracks
My Life.

My policy:

Christian? Fine. Atheist? Fine. Hindu? Fine. Satanic? Fine. Just go do what it is that you do and shut the hell up.

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Is Wayne Brady going to have to choke a *****?

[This message has been edited by Kieran Horn (edited May 02, 2004).]

Ah. A perfect example of a person who doesn't believe simply because they don't like how God works, and/or knows little about. (Nothing personal).
Hey... maybe you should read up on the Bible before telling us what it says.
Paradoxes are imaginary, unrealistic ways that athiests use to attempt to "stump" Christians.
Better question - When was the last time you looked in the right place for a miracle? Surely you realize that the media automatically debunks any claim of a miracle.
Because he promised not to?
Before answering this, you'd have to comptemplate an existance completely independent from time. Can you? Unlikely, simply because humans don't live in such a manner.
Oh, OK, so because everyone believed the earth was the center of the universe, that proves the Bible wrong, even though such a passage does not exist in the Bible. Riiiight.
Then why did you bother posting in this thread??

(Again, I have nothing personal against you, but please be more informed on the religion you speak out against.)

[This message has been edited by DogSRoOL (edited May 02, 2004).]

Word.

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My Tracks
My Life.

Yup, its just my opinion. I can easily reverse that and say that people who believe in God blindly follow His ways because they're promised eternal joy in the end.

Could that be constituted as greed in a way?

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My Tracks
My Life.

Well, if that was our sole motivation for belief. According to true Christian teachings, we are to seek and follow solely after God, not after his gifts.

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Genesis 22:2-5 - And God said unto Abraham "You must kill your son, Isaac." And Abraham said "What? I can't hear you! You'll have to speak into the microphone." And God said "Check, check, check, check. Jerry, can you pull the high end out. I'm getting some hiss up here."
Valuable Life Lesson: Frog + Potato Gun = Blindness

Catalog of Electronic Components - Complete IC data sheets
National Electrical Code® (NEC®) Online - Legal requirements for wiring projects.

No, more like getting something good in return for praising the person who we belive created everything, including our lives, even when being mortal makes that very hard sometimes.

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There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.
The Matrix Unplugged|My Portfolio|My Levels

[This message has been edited by Cazor (edited May 02, 2004).]

Then what was the point in saying that? Especially when i already proved it wrong in the NEXT SENTENCE, where I said that I DIDN'T.


No, I can comprehend that. It doesn't make it any different from a universe that exists outside of time. Rather, the idea that the universe had no beginning. It doesn't matter, the point was that God is no mor eplausible than any other creation story, some of which are less complex.

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WOOSH|-----@%

Woah relax will ya... its called making a joke. Here...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Joke

Some of us do it to make light of a conterversal topic cause we don't want to deal with it at the moment... why don't you try it I bet you'll smile more often.

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<Outlaw_Torn> you mean your related to that damned sasquatch, Mech?
<MechWarrior> Lets just say the part of the family tree that does fork has bossy the goat in it.

<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?

First off, if you've not been with God, how can you know what it's comparatively like to be without Him? That said, how can you know if there's not some thing(s) in your life that God would normally be able to fill?

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Genesis 22:2-5 - And God said unto Abraham "You must kill your son, Isaac." And Abraham said "What? I can't hear you! You'll have to speak into the microphone." And God said "Check, check, check, check. Jerry, can you pull the high end out. I'm getting some hiss up here."
Valuable Life Lesson: Frog + Potato Gun = Blindness

Catalog of Electronic Components - Complete IC data sheets
National Electrical Code® (NEC®) Online - Legal requirements for wiring projects.

1. I never said that the bible said anything about the dinosaurs. Maybe you should read what I typed rather than trying to say that I said something I didn't say.

2. Paradoxes are unrealistic???? What about the whole God issue!?! You're saying that some invisible being that was there before time and created everything as we know it is now is more feasbile than asking this supreme being to make a meal He can't eat?

3. Everywhere I looked as proved fruitless. How about you show me a miracle that was directly related to God? Maybe you could enlighten me.

4. Ok, why doesn't God just asteroid us to death?

5. You attempt to answer my question of what created God in a vague matter. Everything has a beginning no matter the way you look at it. Give me one example of something that doesn't apply to this statement.

6. Ok, I admit I made a mistake. It doesn't specifically mention that the earth was the center of the universe, even though it is implied. It doesn't give an excuse on why religious officials condemned those who believed in another theory. Supposedly they help carry out God's will right?

7. I didn't really post my experiences except in one occasion. I was just stating questions that I would like answered by others.

8. Why did you skip some of my points?

Anyways, I'm out for tonight... I'll post tomorrow if I see something I wanna talk about.

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My Tracks
My Life.

Couple more questions to throw out:

1. Why do some people die such horrible ways? What constitutes a horrible death, especially if one doesn't do anything wrong?

2. God is supposed to know is going to happen in our lives right? Doesn't that mean that He automatically knows who's going to Hell or not?

3. If I just happen to grab a knife right now and kill myself, does God know that I'm about to do that?

4. Why can't I pray and pray for the world to be a better place for those who are less fortunate and it not come true?

5. How do ghosts and paranormal activity relate to the Bible?

6. In the bible do extraterristrials exist? If not, then if there is an extraterristrial then the Bible is proven wrong right?
(And that applies to bacteria or what not in another planet)

7. And isn't sin subjective? Like, if I stole money from someone who earned it legitimately to help millions of other families, would that be constituted as a sin?

8. In war, if I am ordered to kill someone, is that a sin? I could just say no and face treason charges or whatever, right?

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My Tracks
My Life.

[This message has been edited by Em Playa (edited May 02, 2004).]

Dogs..err..what? That had nothing to do with what we were talking about. We were talking about rejecting god and replacing him with something else. You said it always happens. I said I was proof that it didn't.

So why would I need to be WITH god (who i don't beleive exists) to know what it's like to be WITHOUT him (which I am) and even then, why would I need to know if there's something inside me he could fill? The whole point was that even if there was something to fill, I haven't filled it.

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WOOSH|-----@%

This is exactly why the RF isn't around anymore.

I can't help but answer a couple of the less contravesial ones:
Most religions that talk of "sin" are based on a philosophy called "Natural Law."

Basically we exist together, and therefore there is a relationship between us, however loose or strong it may be. Because of this relationship there is naturally set down a norm of actions I can fairly do and can't. Stealing, for example, is wrong because it is unfair, and we have an inate understanding of this.

Things aren't wrong because we say so, or because a god says so, they just are by their very nature; harming others through the relationship that exists between us by our existence.

"Subjective" would mean that whether or ot something is unfair is based upon how any person feels about it. Some would say obviously not since around the world societies have a general consensus on ideas of justice, albeit with the expected oddities here and there.

Others might say differently; for example, American law is based on the idea that right and wrong are based on the changing norms of society.

There really isn't a way to prove it one way or another. Not necessarily, but just because a war is happening doesn't mean everything goes. The Catholic Church has a "Just War" theory based on its teachings about natural and divine law, for example.


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Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....

[This message has been edited by Bounty Hunter 4 hire (edited May 02, 2004).]

GOD ( ) forbid we ever discuss anything controversial. I guess I jsut don't get what the big deal is?

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WOOSH|-----@%

Sorry. I feel like crap right now, and I can't read right. For the most part, paradoxes are unrealistic. By definition, a paradox is something that contradicts itself. However, such a paradox may be possible and realistic in an existance without time. We as humans do not even remotely know what such an existance is like, and we could never understand the physics behind it. (More on down)

There was a guy in my church who was having trouble with his kidneys. I'm not sure of all the details, but today, he reported that his proteins had returned to normal. That's not something that just "happens," right? That's just one person in a sea of a couple billion. I'm not omnipresent, so I can't exactly give reports on all miracles to have ever occured.



Why would he want to? He'd actually be giving everyone less time to come to faith.

There is currently no scientific law that I'm aware of that supports any kind of authentic creation. It should also be noted that ALL of our understanding of physics applies ONLY to OUR manner of existence; one within constraints of time. Unless we can first understand what existance is like without time, we cannot determine if being created is even a requirement for something to exist when there is no time. Science simply hasn't evolved to a point where we can study such a thing.

Actually, it's not. There's a verse in Job that says "He hangs the earth on nothing." And you'll note that those "officials" (which, I might add, were only the Catholics, not other denominations) have changed such views.

I thought the last 4 were for Owen's post, so I left them for him, mostly.

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Genesis 22:2-5 - And God said unto Abraham "You must kill your son, Isaac." And Abraham said "What? I can't hear you! You'll have to speak into the microphone." And God said "Check, check, check, check. Jerry, can you pull the high end out. I'm getting some hiss up here."
Valuable Life Lesson: Frog + Potato Gun = Blindness

Catalog of Electronic Components - Complete IC data sheets
National Electrical Code® (NEC®) Online - Legal requirements for wiring projects.

Seek and ye shall find. How can you find something in which you do not look for? Ask and ye shall receive.



First off, God does not need to eat so the whole idea of him creating a meal larger then he can eat is irrational in the first place (of course, you'd know that if you'd actually read the Bible ). Secondly, if you can imagine faith and trust being symbiotic then how could God test our trust in Him if we did not need faith to believe in Him?



At a time when I doubted my faith, God allowed me to hear the angels sing. Rather you believe it or not, it actually occured and try as I might, I have never been able to recreate what I heard nor rationalize what else could of made the sounds (I was alone in a VERY quiet place).



Why would he? Furthermore, why pose questions on actions of a God you don't even know(Emphasis on "know" as it means to have a personal relationship with someone before you can honestly feel like you know them well enough to suggest actions they might take)?



You see, the problem is that your whole life you've been conditioned to believe that time exists. What if I told you that it doesn't? Then, as you might would see, there is no beginning or end. There simply...is.



One of the reasons I don't agree with the approach of organized religion. They tend to get carried away. As a result, there are no rational connections between religion and science. It's currently split between the two and it is unfortunate that it will likely remain that way. However, you have to understand that this is very complicated and requires a very long explanation of why this is. But basically, most Christian sects believe that every word in the Bible should be taken literial (even for scientific purposes). I will say, however, that there are a few Christians who realize why this line of thinking is incorrect and should not be followed. But as I said, it requires a very long explanation for this reasoning to be clear.



Please realize that many of your questions will come from ignorance of the religion you don't understand. I, for one, will attempt to answer your questions maturely, descriptfully, and fully as possible. All I (as I cann't speak for the other Christians) ask is that you keep and open mind....and I'll do the same. Fair enough?

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Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited May 02, 2004).]

Well, I guess I wasn't talking about rejecting God. But I think I worded what I meant to say backwards. It's a complicated piece of philosophy for me. Basically, you can't know what it's like to be without something if you never had it, right? How do I know how good it really is to have a nice, new car, if I've never had one? Sure, maybe I can guess. But for now, I'm reasonably satisfied with my current car. It gets me places, just perhaps without as much luxury.

The exact opposite is true, too. If I've always had an awesome car, do I know what it's like to have a crappy one? And doesn't the awesome one do all the things a crappy one can, plus more? See, it completely takes the place of a POS car, thus fulfilling everything the old car did, and then some. Does that analogy make more sense?

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Genesis 22:2-5 - And God said unto Abraham "You must kill your son, Isaac." And Abraham said "What? I can't hear you! You'll have to speak into the microphone." And God said "Check, check, check, check. Jerry, can you pull the high end out. I'm getting some hiss up here."
Valuable Life Lesson: Frog + Potato Gun = Blindness

Catalog of Electronic Components - Complete IC data sheets
National Electrical Code® (NEC®) Online - Legal requirements for wiring projects.

I'm very sorry, but I can't help myself.



and with a little magic:








and so forth...

tl,dr

Dude, Owen, you may have the best ideas in the world but nobody is going to read them unless you become good friends with Mr. Paragraph.

You should have learned how to properly structure your writing in grade school, or at the absolute worst a form of remedial classroom education in high school. Intellectualism is really best left for those who actually care about being intellectual. Becoming smart is about choice, not about genetics or luck.

*cough*
The Titans - Gaea, Uranus, Cronus, Rhea, Oceanus, Tehtys, Hyperion, Mnemosyne, Themis, Ipatus, Coeus, Crius, Phoebe, Thea, Prometheus, Epimetheus, Atlas, Metis and Dione.
The Olympians, who overthrew the Titans - Zeus, Poseidon, Hades, Hestia, Hera, Ares, Athena, Apollo, Aphrodite, Hermes, Artemis and Hephaestus. And you cannot forget these other Gods & Semi-Gods - Asclepius, Demeter, Persephone, Dionysus, Eros, Hebe, Eris, Thanatos, Pan, Nemesis, The Graces (the daugters of Zeus and Eurynome - Aglaia, Euphrosyne, and Thalia), The Muses (the daugters of Zeus and Mnemosyne - Clio, Urania, Melpomene, Thalia, Terpsichore, Calliope, Erato, Polyhymnia and Euterpe), The Erinye - Tisiphone, Megaera, and Alecto, and The Fates - Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos.
The Egyptian Gods - Amun, Anubis, Aten, Atum, Bastet, Bes, Geb, Hapy, Hathor, Horus, Isis, Khepri, Khnum, Ma'at, Nephthys, Nun, Nut, Osiris, Ptah, Ra, Ra-Horakhty, Sekhmet, Seshat, Seth, Shu, Sobek, Tawaret, Tefnut, and Thoth.
The Aztec Gods - Centeotl, Chalchiuhtlicue, Chantico, Chicomecoatl, Cihuacaotyl, Coatlicue, Ehecatl, Huehueteotl, Huitzilopochtli, Itzpzpalotl, Ixtlilton, Macuilxochitl, Mictlantecuhtle, Ometecuhlti, Omecihuatl, Patecali, Paynal, Quetzalcoatl, Teoyaomqui, Tezcatlipoca, Tlaloc, Tlalocan, Tlazolteotl, Tonacatecuhtli, Tonatiuh, Tonantzin, Zilonen, Xipe Totec, Xiuhtecuhtle, Xochipilli, Yacatecuhtli.
The Inca Gods - Apo, Catequil, Huacas, Mama Cocha, Punchan, Apocatequil, Chasca, Huirachocha (Viracocha), Mama Pacha, Quilla (Mama-Kilya), Apu Illapu, Chasca Coyllur, Illapa (Illyapa, Katoylla), Mama Quilla, Supai (Supay), Apu Punchau, Copacati, Inti, Manco Capac, Urcaguary, Ataguchu, Mama Allpa, Pachamama (Mama Pacha), and Viracocha.
Not to mention these Gods from other Non-Inca South American tribes - Abore, Acacila, Aha, Ahayuta Achi, Ai Apaec, Aka-Kanet, Aluberi, Am, Anatiwa, Ariconte, Auchimalgen, Avya, Axo-Mama, Bachue, Beetle, Bochica, Caragabi, Ccoa, Cherruve, Chia, Chibchachum, Chonchonyi, Coca-Mama, Colo-Colo, Con, Cupara, Curupira, Dohitt, Dyai, Ekeko, Elel, Enore, Epunamun, Evaki, Grandfather, Gualicho, Guaracy, Guayarakun, Guecubu (Guecufu), Guinechen (Guinemapun), Heller Huaillepenyi, Huasa, Mallcu, Ihuaivulu, Jacy, Jetaita, Jurupari, Ka-Ata-Killa, Keri and Kame, Keyeme, Kuma, Kurupira, Maire (Maira), Maira Ata, Maire-Monan, Meri and Ari, Meuler, Moma, Monan, Nainuema, Nanderuvucu, Ngurvilu, Olle, Pachacamac, Pariacaca, Peruda, Pihuechenyi, Pillan (Pilan), Pura (Pore), Raini, Si, Tejeto, Temaukel, Thomagata, Toruguenket, Torushompek, Tupa, Tupan, and Watauinewa.

There are also many, many more.
So, how could any of you possibly know, or even believe, that God is the one and only, when there are so many other cultures with just as much of their own "evidence" to substantiate their own Overlords? Personally, I think it's all a bunch of crap, and with such a variety of stories, I find it hard to take any of it seriously.

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«»The Scratchware Manifesto
-¬thoughts from beyond observance

Exactly, if we lived in another part of the world, I bet most of our views on religion would be different.

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