Sweet, I wanna go there.... with an undercover camera.

Yeah...cause obviously they starve and then gas the kids to death and then burn them to ashes.

Don't ever compare this to the Holocaust. In the Holocaust six million people who committed no crimes whatsoever were brutally tortured and ultimately killed simply because of religion. The kids being sent here are a select few with severe behavorial and disciplinary problems. Most the of the kids there deserve to be there because they did some damn bad stuff. I'd have to say that probably 99% of the victims of the Holocaust didn't do a thing wrong. This is not the Holocaust, not even close, so don't try to compare it to that.

Yeah I agree, don't compare this to the holocaust.

But it's morally wrong just the same.

Wait...the kid has pot problems so they send him to Jamaica? I don't get it.

>.>

Because this kid did drugs, his parents sent him to one of these camps, only in the U.S.A.

Tell me Boba, did this kid have to die because his parents were retards and sent him to one of these camps? Did he have to die because they had no backbone and couldn't raise him theirselves?

Did he have to die because of the uncaring faculty staff?
Because of how the program is run tough-love style?
Because of how, after days and days of complaining, they thought he was faking until he finally died?

http://outside.away.com/magazine/1095/10f_deth.html

http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/RememberingMichelleSutton.html

Edit:

I found one from a kid who went to Tranquiliy bay.

http://www.helpyourteens.com/news/extra_january_2003_newsletter.html

Edit2:

Some others.
http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/wwasp/wise/pages/wise071.htm

http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/wwasp/violante/

http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/wwasp/kravig/

Except other kids that were in the program and got out when they were 18 are complaining about it and saying the kids are pretty much being tortured into submission.

Think before you post.

Also, on the wilderness camps, according to 63Days, women are regularly molested and raped.

I'm all for rehabillitating kids. But these camps and this Tranquility Bay are way to severe. They're little more than emotional and physical torture, and need to be shut down.

You're not clever. Way to ignore me shooting down your dumbass comment.
There are some people who cannot be helped, there are some people who need this kind of authority. Regular discipline does not work on everyone. This is bootcamp for the kids who spit in the bootcamp Seargent's faces. No, letting them run amok and eventually burnout after a reign of terror is not an option. They're being reprogrammed? GOOD BECAUSE THEIR PROGRAMMING IS BROKEN.

Yes, I think some kids may definately need some kind of severe disciplining. But I do NOT think the decision should be up to the parents alone. Most parents these days suck, and never take responsiblity for their own kids. I think that other methods should be taken before anything this extreme should be tried. And if those fail, then send them to these camps.

First realize this: You are not right. I am not right. This matter is an opinionated matter. So stop acting like you're so damned special and awesome and you know everything.

Second: There's bootcamp, and then there's mental and physical torture. Yes, there is physical torture. You remember reading the article about the 'detainment' and how they broke kids' bones with it (sometimes) and did it regularly for punishment? Also, think of the percentage of people who are there unjustly. They don't love their parents enough, or they chose the wrong boyfriend, whatever. Even if it's only 5%, that's 5% far too many.

sorry, I was quite pissed off about this, and still kind of am, but not as much.

How very Orwellian.

[off topic]


You're omitting nearly half of the generally accepted estimated figure of 11 million. What about the 5 million others? Poles, Slavic people, gypsies, the physically/mentally deformed, bisexuals/homosexuals, opposing/critical intelligensia, Jehovah's Witnesses etc. Don't they count too?

You're absolutely right. So that only further strengthens my point of not comparing this to the Holocaust.



This is what I have been trying to say, and Mikus said it quite well. Some people are simply beyond help, or at least beyond any help society knows how to give them. What is so bad about "reprogramming" them? As Mikus said, these people clearly need to be reprogrammed, because something in their programming clearly is not working properly.

As Maddox would say: "Beat your kid!"

Yeah seriously. I laughed my *** off when I ready that quote.


"Things really started to get out of hand when POT got involved."

OH NOES!!1

Except that there is no evidence at all that every one of these kids is out of control. Thats why people are given a trial by jury before being sent to prison or juvenile hall.

I never said all of them were. I acknowledge that indeed some may be sent there for reasons that don't warrant this type of punishment. However, I'd venture to say that the vast majority of kids there are there for a good reason, and do deserve whatever they get.

Yeah, but that wasn't what I was joking about. :p

Reading the article left me with a surreal feeling. Reading that people here, in this message board that I've belonged to for seven years, support this just left me disgusted.

This is a concentration camp. Holocaust references are particularly appropriate. Obviously, there is nothing nearing the scale of the holocaust, but the intent is the same. There are people who disagree with our worldview, they do not belong, we must rid ourselves of them. The place was so ****ing dirty that it did not pass the sanitary regulations of a third world country. But no, that doesn't matter. The fact that there are people who believe that punishment like this is not only appropriate, but necessary is sickening to me. It's most likely attitudes like these that are the cause of the problems that snare these children. In human history, the "drug problem" has been fairly recent, as people declared that drugs are a problem.

I've got nothing to further to say. I'm not going to argue anything else, it just makes me too sick.

Yeah, these people just have different viewpoints. These kids who beat up and rob people and vandalize property and treat their parents, siblings, and teachers like **** just are misunderstood.

Stop making the extremes an example. You don't even know how MANY of them are in there for that reason. For all you know, that could be 10% of it, and the other 90% could be people who belong maybe in rehab, or maybe they're just misunderstood individuals.

I just read all of 63days last night, I didn't sleep to well either Monkey_Man. Really sad, her parents are morons.

Why are you acting on the assumption that the majority are wrongfully interned there, when it is logically far more probable that the opposite is true?

Innocent until proven guilty.

You also forgot about how I said that they're both morally wrong, on a different levels. Hitler committed many crimes on humanity that were morally wrong on different levels. In no way am I comparing this to the holocaust.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said. I can't believe some people actually think this is appropriate. Some of you have disgusting attitudes (especially Mikus).

Her parents weren't morons; they were deceived. The camp was advertised as something it wasn't, and they thought they were acting in their daughers best interest.

I'm not saying that they're all there for bad reasons. I'm just saying the motto of the good ol' US (though our court systems don't seem to reflect it):

Innocent until proven guilty.

(thank you Zojombize)

Before you start throwing around buzzwords like logic, and true, wrong, I'd suggest you learn a little bit about philosophical terms you're using. Don't play with fire if you can't soak at least 5 aggravated damage.

Everyone here is using very different definitions of what it is to be rightfully interred there. Myself, I don't think there is a person who should be rightfully interred there. If you'd ask John Kay if anyone is there who shouldn't be, he'd say no.

dude, kicking your kid out on the street is cheaper and more effective, i'm sure they would turn up a few days later crying their eyes out if you did that, unless they get murdered that is, but you can always have more kids...

My position exactly. Sure these kids have serious behaviour problems, but I don't think any of them deserve this, nor will it help them in the future.

As for whoever said "corporal punishment was outlawed and now look at all the delinquents running around". This is backwards logic. The changes of society is what has caused all the delinquients, not corporal punishment. Kids have aloit more freedom these days because their parents are far busier then they have ever been. (Moms at work etc) Also I'm sure television and computers have had a huge role in this. Children are increasingly isolated from human contact. These kids just lack good parenting. Personally I don't believe in good and evil at all. Its all a matter of circumstance.

So, now we got all of the arguments if this is "right" or "wrong" out of the way, who's coming with me?

Lock n' Load, baby.

Except the parents and the people who run the place. They're just guilty mofos.

Anovis, we are gonna need guns, lots of guns.

Mmmmmm... doubt it.

From http://www.wikipedia.org...

"You go into a room, into one of the dorm rooms and you have to lay down flat on your face with your head to the side all day; you can't sleep; you're in there for an undetermined amount of time depending upon your behavior and how you act in there. You can't get up during the day except for to go to the bathroom and you (...) get to sit up for about five minutes, probably about every three hours or so. Your food is brought to you and you can sit up to eat it; then you have to lay back right down. The room is unsanitary. There is pretty much what can only be described as pubic hairs floating all around the floor in there. There was one guy (...) who was urinating in the mop bucket all day and later that night after fitness time he mopped the floor with it and the next day we went in there and had to lay down on the floor again; they didn't really care."

"They lay you flat on the floor, one.. One of the staff will get on .. will like kneel down on your ankles, pressing your ankles into the tile floor. One will probably sit on your back and help another one pull your arms up over your back, so they will like hyperextend your arms, sometimes they do it to your legs. Sometimes they will like, they will set it on pressure points on your body pretty much just to hurt you into subservience, so you won't.. so you will do what they tell you."

After reading that, how can you condone this hell? It's DISGUSTING. You have to be sick and twisted to support that kind of behavior. If you support Tranquility Bay, you are saying that you believe that it is okay for teenagers to be tortured into changing their ways.

Boooya baby, we're set!




I know Nightwind. I'm with you. Grab a gun from Space Bandit, and follow me.

lol yeah! Do I see a Padme's pistol from ep. 1? lol

SPAS-12 at the ready. Hit it.

Take a many as you want. My advice, do a head count of the staff, then times 15 by the number of staff, that's how much ammo you need (that's about how many bullets each of them deserve ). Then, you're good to go. Now, who's got passports?