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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Hooray for Utah
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Hooray for Utah
2005-08-23, 6:57 PM #41
I frequent another forum that has a thread on this. The thread poster posted these links:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/22/13030/7546
http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/82205utrave.cfm
http://utah.indymedia.org/news/2005/08/11330.php
http://www.utrave.org

Along with those links, he posted an account of what happened written by someone on a different forum. The account goes like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by knick evl ntnt

Last night, I was booked to play an event about an
hour outside of Salt Lake City, Utah. The hype behind
this show was huge, they presold 700 tickets and they
expected up to 3,000 people total. The promoters did
an amazing job with the show.. they even made slipmats
with the flyers on them to promote in local shops.

So, we got to the show around 11:15 or so and it was
really cool. It was all outdoors, in a valley
surrounded by huge mountains. They had an amazing
light show flashing on to a mountain behind the site,
the sound was booming, the crowd was about 1500 people
thick and everything just seemed too good to be true
really. Well...

At about 11:30 or so, I was standing behind the stage
talking with someone when I noticed a helicopter
pulling over one of the mountain tops. I jokingly said
"Oh look, here comes big brother" to the person I was
with. I wasn't far off.

The helicopter dipped lower and lower and started
shining its lights on the crowd. I was kind of in awe
and just sat and watched this thing circle us for a
minute. As I looked back towards the crowd I saw a guy
dressed in camoflauge walking by, toting an assault
rifle. At this point, everyone was fully aware of what
was going on . A few "troops" rushed the stage and cut
the sound off and started yelling that everyone "get
the **** out of here or go to jail". This is where it
got really sticky.

No one resisted. That's for sure. They had police dogs
raiding the crowd of people and I saw a dog signal out
a guy who obviously had some drugs on him. The
soldiers attacked the guy (4 of them on 1), and kicked
him a few times in the ribs and had their knees in his
back and sides. As they were cuffing him, there was
about 1000 kids trying to leave in the backdrop,
peacefully. Next thing I know, A can of ****ing TEAR
GAS is launched into the crowd. People are running and
screaming at this point. Girls are crying, guys are
cussing... bad scene.

Now, this is all I saw with my own eyes, but I heard
plenty of other accounts of the night. Now this isnt
gossip I heard from some candy raver, these are
instances cited straight out of the promoters mouth..

- One of the promoters friends (a very small female)
was attacked by one of the police dogs. As she
struggled to get away from it, the police tackled her.
3 grown men proceeded to KICK HER IN THE STOMACH.

- The police confiscated 3 video tapes in total.
People were trying to document what was happening out
there. The police saw one guy filming and ran after
him, tackled him and his camera fell, and luckily..
his friend grabbed it and ran and got away. priceless
footage. That's not all though. Out of 1,500 people,
there's sure to be more footage.

- The police were rounding up the staff of the party
and the main promoter went up to them with the permit
for the show and said "here, I have the permit." The
police then said, "no you don't" and ripped the permit
out of his hand. Then, they put an assault rifle to
his forehead and said "get the **** out of here right
now."



Now.. let's get the facts straight here.

This event was 100% legal. They had every permit the
city told them they needed. They had a 2 MILLION
DOLLAR insurance policy for the event. They had
liscenced security guards at the gates confiscating
any alcohol or drugs found upon entry (yes, they
searched every car on the way in). Oh, I suppose I
should mention that they arrested all the security
guards for possession.

Oh another interesting fact.. the police did not have
a warrant. The owner of the land already has a lawsuit
against the city for something similar. A few months
ago, she rented her land for a party and the police
raided that as well. And catch this, the police forced
her to LEAVE HER OWN PERSONAL PROPERTY. That's right.
They didnt arrest her, but made her leave her own
property!!!

Don't get it twisted, this is all going down in
probably THE most conservative state in the USA. And
this is scary.. a gross violation of our civil
liberties. The police wanted this party shut down, so
they made it happen. Even though everything about this
event was legal. The promoters spent over $ 20,000 on
this show and did everything they had to to make it
legit, only to have it taken away from them by a group
of radical neo-con's with an agenda.

This was one of the scariest things I have ever
witnessed in person. I can't even begin to describe
how surreal it was. Helicopters, assault rifles, tear
gas, camoflauge-wearing soldiers.... why? Was that
really necessary?

This needs to be big news across the USofA. At least
in our music scene (edm as a whole)... this could
happen to any of us at any time. When we're losing the
right to gather peacefully, we're also letting the
police set a standard of what we can get away with.
And I think that's BULL****!

The system ****ed up last night... They broke up a
party that was 100% legal and they physically hurt a
lot of people there at the same time. The promoters
already have 6 lawsuits ready to file with their
lawyers and the ACLU is already involved.

I'm sure some pictures (and hopefully some video) will
surface soon. I'll make sure to post them up here on
404, so you can see the Police State of America at
work.

p.s. - there are more stories of police brutality that
i'll post up later. gotta hit the airport soon. can't
wait to get the **** out of this **** hole state.


Thread here: http://www.buzzlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62975

This URL says that the rave had all of the necessary permits to be doing this sort of thing:
http://www.sploid.com/news/2005/08/23/utah-officials-rave-had-all-permits-118793.php

Lastly, if you can't find enough information, here's a website created by people from the rave.
http://www.utrave.org/
Daddy, why doesn't this magnet pick up this floppy disk?
2005-08-23, 6:58 PM #42
He didn't kick him. Watch the animation.
Attachment: 6914/anim1.gif (63,825 bytes)
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2005-08-23, 7:07 PM #43
Wow, I can't tell even with that animation. I say this is all speculation, and whether or not you want to believe these accounts. It sounds gruesome and really ****ty, but Raoul, your attitude doesn't help much. You shame that name.
D E A T H
2005-08-23, 7:08 PM #44
What about before that? The camera turned and the guy was kicked a few times before it stoped, then they kinda break away, then I say that once officer kicks him in the gut.

Just learned, it's a girl. Quoted from here, http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=97566&nid=148

Quote:
It's difficult to see on the video, but witnesses say a woman on the ground wearing a red shirt was being kicked in the stomach by officers.
"DON'T TASE ME BRO!" lol
2005-08-23, 7:10 PM #45
[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Wow, I can't tell even with that animation. I say this is all speculation, and whether or not you want to believe these accounts. It sounds gruesome and really ****ty, but Raoul, your attitude doesn't help much. You shame that name.[/QUOTE]
Oh shut your yap yoshi.
2005-08-23, 7:12 PM #46
...It's 3 frames long. How the hell can you make any kind of judgement based on that?
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2005-08-23, 7:13 PM #47
Look at the freaking quicktime version. you can pause and scan with your arrow keys in slow motion. She does not get kicked at all. Yes maybe they took her down hard, but all of those movements the officers are making are just them moving.

The only thing that really annoys me about the people defending the crowd is you're jumping to conclusions. Yes you read the witness statements, but still, that doesnt really mean you KNOW what was going on.
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2005-08-23, 7:16 PM #48
No one's denying something happened, but the truth is we don't know what actually happened. There was a rave and the cops raided it. We know that much. People were arrested. Drugs were found. Those are the only facts we have at this point in time. Just because there is a brief shot of someone getting kicked doesn't mean they didn't do something to deserve it. Maybe it was excessive force. You just can't tell, one way or the other.
Pissed Off?
2005-08-23, 7:23 PM #49
Originally posted by MBeggar:
Look at the freaking quicktime version. you can pause and scan with your arrow keys in slow motion. She does not get kicked at all. Yes maybe they took her down hard, but all of those movements the officers are making are just them moving.

The only thing that really annoys me about the people defending the crowd is you're jumping to conclusions. Yes you read the witness statements, but still, that doesnt really mean you KNOW what was going on.


K, perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions. But knowing our wonderful police force, it would not surprise me one bit if she got kicked, or other people beaten.
"DON'T TASE ME BRO!" lol
2005-08-23, 7:30 PM #50
Maybe, but no one here can tell for sure.

[QUOTE=Raoul Duke]I ****in give up. Cops can do no wrong. Stupid drug taking kids always making up stories. Nothing happened here. WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA???[/QUOTE]

Yay for jumping to conclusions. No one said cops can do no wrong. Some of us just want something more concrete than some crappy vdeo fottage that doesn't show much and the accounts of people who were there who may or may not be exaggerating their claims.

The video hardly shows anyone getting the crap kicked out of them by the cops. No one got kicked in video. I think some people are blowing this way out of proprtion. Taking screens with some one's foot up in heh air saying it was a person getting kicked is pathetic..
Pissed Off?
2005-08-23, 7:36 PM #51
Good job, cops! Keep up the good work!
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2005-08-23, 7:36 PM #52
Okay, I don't know if this raid was legal or the rave itself was legal or what, but watching that video, it looked pretty freakin' calm and by-the-books. It shows a bunch of cops telling people to do stuff, and a bunch of people complying. For example, the cameraman and pretty much everyone in the video. Also, a few people apparently did not comply, so they were taken to the ground and arrested. All those horrow stories of people getting kicked were probably exaggerations of standard police procedure. The "knee in the back" is just how you hold a suspect down while you put handcuffs on them with your hands.
Warhead[97]
2005-08-23, 7:49 PM #53
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Good job, cops! Keep up the good work!

Yeah, they are really protecting our country. Can't be having peaceful, legal concerts now can we.
2005-08-23, 7:54 PM #54
Just because the concert was sanctioned doesn't mean illegal activities weren't going on, hence the drugs they recovered.
Pissed Off?
2005-08-23, 7:55 PM #55
Nitrous Oxide!
2005-08-23, 7:59 PM #56
Originally posted by Avenger:
Just because the concert was sanctioned doesn't mean illegal activities weren't going on, hence the drugs they recovered.

Come on! It was common knowledge what you could find at most Dead shows not too long ago, and you never heard of armed police coming in and busting them.
2005-08-23, 8:01 PM #57
Greatful Dead shows = different from these raves.

Dead shows were all hippies. No one listens to them.

These raves consist of complaining teenagers claiming they're cool because they're fighting the law.
2005-08-23, 8:03 PM #58
Still doesn't condone the inhumane handling of the situation.

***.
2005-08-23, 8:07 PM #59
[QUOTE=Raoul Duke]Yeah, they are really protecting our country. Can't be having peaceful, legal concerts now can we.[/QUOTE]

Seizing illegal drugs from kids is always good.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2005-08-23, 8:07 PM #60
I'll just wait for an in-depth investigation report or something along those lines. Get all the witnesses together and footage, instead of posts on the internet and poor quality video. Maybe those lawsuits can clear some things up. There seems to be too much conflicting stories and holes about the permits, police treatment, drug use, etc.
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2005-08-23, 8:08 PM #61
Heh...don't get me wrong. If they do illeagal things, they should accept the consequence of being beaten half to death by big armored top-game S.W.A.T. team men.
2005-08-23, 8:15 PM #62
I admit I over reacted a little. The girl may have been kicked, she may not have, there is not enough evidence right now to tell. However, I'm betting she was, but that is just my opinion. But, if this whole "The cops didn't have a warrant" thing turns out to be true, then they are in way deep crap, and made a huge mistake.
"DON'T TASE ME BRO!" lol
2005-08-23, 8:16 PM #63
Originally posted by Anovis:
Heh...don't get me wrong. If they do illeagal things, they should accept the consequence of being beaten half to death by big armored top-game S.W.A.T. team men.

Well...I must say I really am quite disappointed. I thought more people here had compassion and a sense of humanity but I guess I'm quite wrong. Seriously, who did this ravers hurt? They were out to have a good time at a concert and take a few drugs. They werent out to hurt anyone but their own bodies, and yet you people (read:anovis) advocate severe violence against them in a military-esque takedown? Man...some people are just messed up.
2005-08-23, 8:24 PM #64
Duke, you are just as biased as anyone who says cops can do no wrong, so just cut it out.

I think this was a drug bust where the law enforcement was afraid of retaliation from the crowd so they went in hard and ended up using too much force.
Democracy: rule by the stupid
2005-08-23, 8:32 PM #65
[QUOTE=Raoul Duke]They were out to have a good time at a concert and take a few drugs. They werent out to hurt anyone but their own bodies...[/QUOTE]

Or you can say these ravers could drive home stoned and put innocent people's lives in danger. Or start a brawl because they are high.

Pretty much any position on this event is still up in the air as of right now.
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2005-08-23, 8:44 PM #66
Not to mention they funded people who are probably quite a bit more ruthless and kill-happy than they when they bought umpteen thousands of ecstasy pills, among many other drugs.

Don't get me wrong, I've done drugs, I've enjoyed some, and hated others. But I know who I'm paying when I partake in the consumption of illegal drugs, or I don't partake at all. And I know that far too much drugs come from drug lords and criminals whose houses, cars, and hitmen I don't want to pay for.
D E A T H
2005-08-23, 8:47 PM #67
[QUOTE=Rogue Leader]Yes, hard to believe that people who were probably using drugs and commiting acts of vandilism would like about it. How blind could we have been![/QUOTE]

They can't really commit acts of vandalism...but drugs, yes, they were most likely partaking in.
D E A T H
2005-08-23, 8:52 PM #68
[QUOTE=Raoul Duke]Well...I must say I really am quite disappointed. I thought more people here had compassion and a sense of humanity but I guess I'm quite wrong. Seriously, who did this ravers hurt? They were out to have a good time at a concert and take a few drugs. They werent out to hurt anyone but their own bodies, and yet you people (read:anovis) advocate severe violence against them in a military-esque takedown? Man...some people are just messed up.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps this is why I am not sarcastic much.

But don't say "Well they're not hurting anyone." Read above statements for why I think they are hurting other people..
2005-08-23, 9:10 PM #69
Quote:
Don't get it twisted, this is all going down in
probably THE most conservative state in the USA. And
this is scary.. a gross violation of our civil
liberties. The police wanted this party shut down, so
they made it happen. Even though everything about this
event was legal. The promoters spent over $ 20,000 on
this show and did everything they had to to make it
legit, only to have it taken away from them by a group
of radical neo-con's with an agenda.

Bahahahahahaaha.

Please give me a break. People who want laws enforced are radical neo-cons. Yeah, this guys credibility is shot to hell in mine eyes.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2005-08-23, 9:19 PM #70
Okay, I just watched the video (frame by frame), and people are seriously overreacting.

For all the **** that people have been throwing around, I really expected a lot more action. When really, the cops in the video pretty much just walk up, tell the DJ to turn off the music, and everyone kinda just walks away. That's far from the running in, guns blazing-type scene I was expecting after all this controversy.

As for the people on the ground, lets take some things into account.

Various accounts have said that illegal drugs were found by police during the raid.

Various accounts also mention the use of "attack dogs" by the police.

The video shows, from what I am able to determine, only one "attack dog", whos leash is in the hands of one of the officers.

The video shows several officers holding down, as far as I can determine, two civilians.

The video shows, from what I can determine, said civilians struggling against the police officers.

The video shows, what others have said to be, an officer kicking the red-shirted civilian in the stomach.

Others claim that law enforcement officers employed the use of tear gas during the raid.

Let me take these one at a time.

Let's assume for now that this raid was a drug bust, since that's what the evidence points to. The method that law enforcement officers use most to sniff out illegal drugs would be, none other than, drug sniffing dogs. Illegal drugs were reportedly found during the raid. That leads me to believe that these "attack dogs" (of which I saw only one, but that's not to say there weren't others) were not "attack dogs" at all, but drug sniffers, which are perfectly reasonable things to bring on a drug raid (how else are they going to tell if someone's carrying drugs with them, without stripsearching every single person at the rave?)

As for the people being held down, notice that the "attack dog/drug sniffer" is only a few feet away, barking his *** off in the general direction of the civilians on the ground. Said civilians appear to me to be struggling (however, I may be mistaken), and one of the officers, after walking around the red-shirted individual (the person others say to be female, but I honestly can't tell from the video), supposedly kicks it in the stomach.

From analyzing the video and various accounts of the incident, I think the scenario was something like this; The drug sniffing dog found something on those two people, who the police then tried to subdue. That right there explains the presence of the dog, and why the individuals are being held down and arrested. The dog barking in the direction of those individuals supports this theory.

The individuals appear (to me, anyway) to be struggling against their arrest, hence several more officers holding down each person (regardless of the struggle, though, it's my understanding that general procedure is to have more than one officer per person in the first place, so either way it would appear that the officer's actions are justified). As for the "kicking the red-shirt in the stomach", I don't see that at all. It is very clear to me that what others are interpretting as a "kick to the stomach" is nothing but said officer stepping over something. The way the person is laid down, and the position of the officer walking, would line up with him kicking his/her shins, anyway, and not her stomach. And why would an officer be kicking a subdued person in the shins? Not to mention that it looks like a very sloppy, uncoordinated, and weak kick in the first place, which leads me to believe that the officer was simply taking a step, and not kicking someone, especially since the officer in question was walking before and after the supposed "kick". (Regardless, kicking someone in the stomach, regardless of gender, is a technique often employed to subdue a struggling individual. The objective is to get them to stop struggling long enough to be arrested, and resisting said arrest by struggling warrants the use of force to achieve this objective. So, if there is a kick, I would say it was a justifiable use of force, but as I said, I see no evidence that the foot-movement in question was actually a kick, and not a step.)

Again, I'm not saying that any of this didn't happen, I'm just saying that, after analyzing the reports, and the video, reviewing the evidence both for and against these claims, and applying logic and common sense, it does not seem to me like the cops busted in with attack dogs and started beating people up randomly, as others claim. I could be wrong, but as yet there is not enough evidence to really back up what others claim to have happened.

As for the supposed tear gas, the police claim that none was used, and I see no evidence of it in the video.
Moo.
2005-08-23, 9:24 PM #71
Yay for logic.
Pissed Off?
2005-08-23, 9:26 PM #72
Originally posted by A_Big_Fat_CoW:
stuff

you ever seen what a drug dog does to drug carrying people? IT FRIGGIN TAKES THEM DOWN! Thats attack dog in a nutshell
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Free Jin!
2005-08-23, 9:38 PM #73
No. Attack dogs and drug sniffing dogs are not the same thing.

Drug sniffing dogs are trained to bark when they find drugs. They aren't trained to attack. Attack dogs look all mean and scary, but they don't attack until they are commanded to.
Pissed Off?
2005-08-23, 9:40 PM #74
Originally posted by Genki:
you ever seen what a drug dog does to drug carrying people? IT FRIGGIN TAKES THEM DOWN! Thats attack dog in a nutshell


There's a difference. Attack dogs just attack. Drug sniffers find people carrying drugs.

My family watches a lot of CourtTV and Animal Planet, and while I may be mistaken (and while I've learned not to believe everything I see on TV), it is my general understanding that drug/bomb sniffing dogs simply sniff out there target, and mark them for the officer (either by barking, or in the more subtle cases, simple sitting down or pawing at it or something of the sort; I've seen it done a lot of different ways), not attack them. They might also train drug-sniffing attack dogs, but I honestly havn't heard or seen anything about that. I always thought that drug-sniffers were non-violent.

I'll also point out that in the video, the dog in question is still being held on his leash. Even if he were to "take people down", it would appear that the officer is holding the dog back, preventing such from happening. So regardless of wether the dog was trained for violence or not, it would appear that it was being held back from doing so.
Moo.
2005-08-24, 1:23 AM #75
Ravers should be beaten, and glow sticks should be considered concealed weapons.
"I got kicked off the high school debate team for saying 'Yeah? Well, **** you!'
... I thought I had won."
2005-08-24, 3:16 AM #76
At leeds festival i saw riot cops continuously charge crowds of people doing nothing, they didn't even go after the people that were actually rioting.

I hope they die.
2005-08-24, 6:16 AM #77
What the HELL kind of Military/police controlled country do u guys actually live in??

Jeez, I'm SOO staying in England.
Code:
if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
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elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
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else{
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2005-08-24, 6:38 AM #78
Originally posted by Flexor:
Utah swat attacks a party without justification . . .


Just want to tackle that one part -- cuz the rest may well be true.


[QUOTE=from ksl.com]"We found cocaine. We found marijuana. We found mushrooms, psychadelic mushrooms that were being used and sold there."[/QUOTE]

Now, as far as the no warrant thing:

[QUOTE=from ksl.com]Organizers say EMTs and security were contracted for the event. But the sheriff says they never acquired a county permit to host such a gathering.[/QUOTE]

Combine that with the above quote

Probable.Cause -- A clean party would have credible EMT and security staff. But then again, when has a rave ever been a place that's good for keeping laws?


Look, the police did things way too rough, I absolutely agree. But it's quite apparent that the law was being broken in more than one way. And no personal offense to anyone, but I'll take the news' word for it, becuase people our age (14-28 or so) have a tendency to exaggerate or make up things.
-There are easier things in life than finding a good woman, like nailing Jello to a tree, for instance

Tazz
2005-08-24, 6:55 AM #79
Utah... SWAT? Holy crap.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2005-08-24, 9:10 AM #80
From what I understand, they did obtain the warrant based on some techicality. They did have most of the necessary paperwork/permits/what-have-you to host that gathering.

What I'm trying to figure out is how a SWAT team was justified for this.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
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