Yeah me too...usually it's a bunch of cops who break these ups.

Since when did Utah need Special Weapons and Tactics anyways?

Because of infidels!

Stab a cop x2

Everywhere has swat teams. I forget whether it's by county or what...anyway, there was a SWAT team for my little town of Bartlesville, OK, they got called out all the time. Well, not all the time...but the police generally took the stance of "when in doubt, call SWAT" for stuff like standoffs or hostage situations.

I do, however, wonder why they've got full military gear on and stuff, with helicopters and everything. Apart from that, though, this all sounds pretty straightforward. Party, perhaps missed a permit or two or something, cops see an opportunity to bust a LOT of druggies, and take it. They move in, arrest a bunch of people with standard procedure, and break up the party. The only strange thing I'm seeing, like I said, is the full military gear.

It's because they only got 3 stars on them, not 5.

A pity. I was mistaken that he said that as well.

On a tangent, interesting how the forum polarizes. From the "Woo, beat those drug heads up" to "Man, those pigs need to be stabbed". I'll stand in the middle saying that the use of force demonstrated was harsh, but that the action in general was justified.



heh, *rimshot*

A statement like that is the same as someone saying everyone who posts in this thread is a clueless computer geek who hasn't seen the sun in years, much less read a newspaper.

See? :p

I don't know about you...but the only reason I go out into daylight is if I have school, a new game came out, or if I have to get some milk.

*vomits*


Oh the ignorance of some people...

Go on, trust the government.

Go on, trust the police

Go on, trust the military

Go on, believe the media

Go on, believe the officials


Go on, distrust your brothers and fellow citizens

Go on, sing your national anthem

Go on, pledge your allegiance

Go on, be the perfect mindless slave they want you to be


Police, government and military always abuse their power everywhere in the world on a daily basis.

I have witnessed abuse of power and use of excessive violence against innocent citizens so many times.

People who can't believe these things happen, or trust the media in cases as these, are totally naive and haven't experienced anything in this life, in this world.

Excuse me while I warm my hands upon the flames of the flag.

\m/

I've witnessed many people who deserve a good slapdown from the cops.

Ignorance is believing that a civilization would last one second without enforced order.

So what should we do ORJ_JoS? Burn more flags? Stop being naive and believe what people say on the internet? Yay!

Most cops suck. End of discussion.

Ok. Why not say almost all of mankind sucks, too? The end.

I'm not saying order shouldn't be enforced whatsoever.

What people should do is protest against abuse of power. Make themselves heard. We are like sheep. We swallow everything the authorities force us down our throats. Abuse of power should be addressed. As should human rights violations by the government. Or a corrupt government for that matter. The people need to unite and make a change.

Instead, they are eachother's throats about whether to believe those stories or not.

Divided, and conquered.

There is a difference between going at "eachother's throats about whether to believe those stories or not" and questioning the validity of these stories.

... you know what I mean.

Start questioning the vailidity of the 'news'.

Ok, the Utah county Sherriff's report say that they "observed" various illegal activities, yet they weren't around until just before the incident.

Real hard to figure that one out. Or are cops suddenly omniscient?

They wouldn't have just stormed in there with no reason. They were probably watching what was happening, got tipped off to something, or had people on the inside.

I don't. I'm always a skeptic.

I do. Because the police exist to protect and serve. Guess who makes up the police force? Regular guys. Fellow citizens. I am friends with a few, they're great guys. Sure, there's a dick or two, just like any other profession....but they're my fellow citizens and their job is to enforce the law. I trust them as I trust any other person. Like I trust my mechanic to fix the problem. The difference is, most other people (like my mechanic) don't have strict regulations to follow, such that a failure to do their duty is punished. So I trust the police MORE. Doesn't mean they always deserve it, but if you can't trust a mechanic to fix your car, what can you do?


Incredibly intelligent generalization. Sure, there's corruption everywhere. EVERYWHERE. And sure, that corruption is amplified by power. But that doesn't necessarily mean that those with power are more corrupt. keyword: necessarily.


You are excused.

But government is made up by evil killer androids!

Oh no! It's Us vs. Them in the fight of the century! Good thing I'm on the side of good, the "us" side!!!!

We've got Brian Boitano!

I agree, that is a generalization, but I didn't mean to say every single cop is corrupt. I know some good cops myself, that's not the issue. I just meant to say stuff like power abuse isn't that exceptional. Corrupt people are everywhere. (Note: This is not the same as saying 'everyone everywhere is corrupt') The police force here is known to do a lot of things they think they can get away with, simply because they're cops.

Just as a single example: an ex- colleague of mine is an ex-cop. He's such an *******, he would proudly tell me stories of how they would arrest shoplifters, and molest them out back and then cover eachother when a complaint was filed.. His favourite story was how they had kicked a cuffed shoplifter down a fire-exit staircase. They would simply say he had fallen down the stairs because he took a misstep.

Jeeze what country is that in ORJ?

He could also be full of ****.

So could the Utah cops. :p

Hopefully there'll be an investigation to get to the bottom of it. Like I said though, judging by that video, I bet the only real issue here is whether or not the raid was legal, not the manner in which it was conducted.

It doesn't matter what country I'm in. You don't need to live in a 3rd world country for that to happen. It can and does happen everywhere. People over here cannot believe either that stuff like that happens in our country. People don't want to believe it.

lol down with amerikka! **** tha po-lice!

Ok. I worked at a police station for something on the order of three months. I got to look around the place, get a feel for the officers and personnel there. Did I meet every single officer there? No. But I met enough to realize they are nice people. They are just people who want to help keep order and protect the populace from the bad guys. And after my brief tour at Carlsbad PD, I have a better appreciation of local PDs. Yes, I am fully aware of officers who abuse power. Carlsbad had a couple in the past.

Why don't you try to get to know your local PD.

Apparently the cops also knew about the event well in advance. They could have shut it down hours before it started if it was really illegal, and stop anything from happening. But instead they chose to wait until it was fully underway to they could scare the **** out of everyone with a huge military style raid that was completely unnecessary. It was designed to put fear into the ravers and intimidate them from attending raves in the future, even when they are perfectly legal such as this one.

I got to know most of the police in my old town. Some of them were really cool, others...well let's just say some cops change when they get to the driver's side window. Either way, Policemen are usually really nice guys, but that doesn't change the fact that 99% of people will hate them for what they do.

@ Duke

You don't know that it was completely unnecessary. If you knew anything about poilce work in such a situation, you wouldn't say it was unnecessary. If anything, the show of forces protects the innocent folks in the long run. In fact, it only makes sense that they'd use such tactics in this situation. After all, the cops were probably out numbered 5-1, at least. Going in in full gear with automatic weapons in hand is a great deterrent when dealing with a huge crowd of people that had the ptoential to get rowdy and possibly riot. Only a handful of people where injured, those being the people who were arrested, in the process of getting rowdy. Everyone else complied with the police because they saw the cops were serious.

What are you, personally, doing about this? Partying hard and such in defiance? Or taking any serious action?


The first sources posted are ridiculous. All the cops yelling get the **** out of here and putting assault rifles to peoples heads? I have relatives on my mother's side of the family, cousins, who are cops in michigan... They're just any other joe-schmoe, this whole 'cops are corrupt' argument is ridiculous, and it's promoted 90% of the time by young people who dream of a more anarchaic society where they drive however goddamn fast they want and are free to partake of whatever illegal substances they want wherever they want without exception. I actually am undecided on the drug legalization issue, so i'm not saying that that shouldn't be a right, for stuff like marijuana)... But please, all this 'fight the power' garbage (and I'm aware that that phrase is not painting an accurate description of the intents and purposes of *most* of the people who are outrage at this... does not help. DOES NOT HELP. Going to your local Greenday show and yelling "**** GEORGE BUSH" with the rest of the crowd is not gonna change a damn thing.

You (applies to no one in particular) need to take some serious political action (politics = the art or science concerned with guiding or influencing governmental), if you are truly, truly concerned that the state of affairs in our country is that terrible. If however, "you" (again, nobody) would choose to extend your previous argument to say that such action is ineffectual because it is controlled by the corrupt state as surely as are the police... then I guess we're f00ked indeed. But you gotta have some faith in something.

Ugh. I try to stay away from these things >_<. Normally, once I've reached this point I'd hit the 'back' button and just refrain from posting, having vented a bit in the text box, but...

I 100 per cent totally agree with you saber which is why if a bush-esque president is elected into office (which hopefully one won't be, as I think bush has made some really horrible decisions. Not that I hate bush, he's made good decisions too, but his domestic policy on things like the Real ID and Patriot Act are both crap.) I will start having to find a state where I can email/write my senators and have them actually READ it.

A few clarifications, because I don't truly intend to post again and I'm not actually trying to elicit any argument or response, really...

I think the raid was justified, from what limited information I have thus far received.

I think the police, from what limited information I have received, used perhaps excessive force.

I think that illegal drug use took place, and did warrant such a raid. (However, to avoid incurring the wrath of those who favor a more libertarian state where such drug use is legal, I don't necessarily oppose said idea)

I think the aftermath of this situation in Utah is infinitely more chaotic and violent than the situation itself.




I am, however, an eternal optimist, so I don't see anything evil coming of it :). The American people, contrary to the beliefs of some, will not be shammed into becoming subjects of a police state with excessively limited freedoms.




In short, 'sall good.

Dj Yoshi sometimes you annoy me but it's only because you're persistent in your arguments, that's all. Maybe too much in my opinion, but otherwise... well that doesn't really matter here does it

[edit]I watched the video, and despite whatever else happened, that guy didn't kick the red-shirted figure... I'm no motion scientist..... or whatever, but it's sorta obvious[/edit]

Even so, was all that necessary to catch mostly end-users? I could see undercover cops trying to bust MDMA dealers, who would most likely be at such a large rave. But end-users would have probably already taken any MDMA or psychedelics, even before the party itself, and very few people would be carrying more than a couple grams of grass, at best. I'd have dropped anything I was carrying, and I'm sure quite a few people there did.

If the nature of the raid was truly anti-drug (which I don't think it was), it was based more on zeal than acting rationally (if you can call Prohibition rational). I think the fact that it was Utah is important, as well.

Why is it important that it was in Utah? Just because we are the meth capital of the country...>.> <.<

Anyway, from the information given, I don't think there were any evil, sinister, or diabolical schemes that fueled this raid, contrary to what many of the people here think. I do think there should be an investigation though.

It's ravein' time! Go little stick-man! Go!

[QUOTE=Kieran Horn]Why is it important that it was in Utah? Just because we are the meth capital of the country...>.> <.<

Anyway, from the information given, I don't think there were any evil, sinister, or diabolical schemes that fueled this raid, contrary to what many of the people here think. I do think there should be an investigation though.[/QUOTE]

You know, I've heard Texas, Kansas, Alabama and now Utah are all the meth capitals of the US.

WTF