A truer statement was never said.

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There is no signature

yeah I feel special. My mommy says I'm special...

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"Father to your hands I commend my spirirt. Father to your hands-Why have you forsaken me?"

I was convinced that I was the only person who felt that way.

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"I can hammer a nail into a piece of wood, but that doesn't make me a carpenter."

I like you Potato man

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The sooner you realize I'm right the better off you will be.

There's no way I'd sacrifice my responsibility as a moral agent and willingly allow a collection of idiot (but mostly well-meaning) humans to give me orders, even for the best of causes.

YES.

I agree with every word of that. Politicians won't bat an eye when sending someone else to war, but if you asked them to go and fight, they'd probably refuse quite loudly.

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Frogblast the Vent Core!

--End of Line--

Is this why we support politicians who've been in the military?

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Daddy, why doesn't this magnet pick up this floppy disk?

I loathe the draft, but I won't fight it.

Ictus: so you wouldn't have even fought in WWII?

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - John Stuart Mill

"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke, British statesman and philosopher

"The characteristic of a genuine heroism is its persistency. All men have wandering impulses, fits and starts of generosity. But when you have resolved to be great, abide by yourself, and do not weakly try to reconcile yourself with the world. The heroic cannot be the common, nor the common the heroic." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Better to fight for something than live for nothing." - General George S. Patton

"Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once." - William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar

"Live as brave men; and if fortune is adverse, front its blows with brave hearts." - Cicero

"Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being." - Kahlil Gibran, "The Voice of the Poet

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" - Emiliano Zapata

"Those who have long enjoyed such privileges as we enjoy forget in time that men have died to win them." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

*goes back to playing Call of Duty*

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The sooner you realize I'm right the better off you will be.

"He who would trade a little bit of freedom for a little bit of safety deserves neither freedom nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

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MadQuack has a signature.

"Sometimes the Tree of Liberty must be refreshed with the blood of patriots"- Thomas Jefferson

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"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
The Never Ending Story²[/i]

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Isaac Asimov

Dalton's records, carefully preserved for a century, were destroyed during the World War II bombing of Manchester. It is not only the living who are killed in war.
Isaac Asimov


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There is no signature

"There is nothing to fear bu fear itself." - FDR

Some of those quote are quite nice, but tell me how Iraq was threatening our liberties and freedoms? The Germans and Japanese in WWII, yes you can make the argument very very easily. This scenario, I don't think so. North korea posed more of a threat than Iraq. Some wars need to be fought. As of yet, I'm not convinced this new one had to be, for the reasons given by the Administration.

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"This thread is still alive? Someone should kill it."

I too have dual citizenship as a foreign-born national of Ireland. Interestingly enough, US law allows the government to revoke your citizenship if you pursue and obtain citizenship of another country, it is just never enforced.

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Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....

Well then, I'm off to Canada!

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I love killing people for fun!!!

[This message has been edited by PegLegPugler (edited May 24, 2004).]

"In December 2001, Canada and the U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in."

Looks like its gonna be Mexico. Anyways, I'm never hesitant to say **** the president.

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I love killing people for fun!!!

This is so upsetting to me that I'm actually coming back to the forums for another post. This bill cannot be passed. Let people know about it, because as of now very few do. It may not matter much to those not from America, but I'd like to be able to finish college without having to fight a war I don't believe in.

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"B-but why is the rum gone?!" - Captain Jack Sparrow

The key word here is patriots. Not conscripts.

The question we ought to be asking is, why is this even an issue? We're not in a time of serious national emergency. We're not particularly short of volunteer soldiers. In fact, the invasion of Iraq showed just how little numbers matter with the kind of technological edge we have.

Here's a very good op-ed on the subject, complete with the names of the bill's sponsors so those of you who are over 18 will know who to vote out of office.

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"Why aren't I'm using at these pictures?" - Cloud, 4/14/02

[This message has been edited by Michael MacFarlane (edited May 24, 2004).]

You don't think they'll change that? You don't think they'll beat that independence out of you?

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Roach - Caught in the war of hemispheres.
0 of 14.

When i turned 18 and had to file my card, i wanted to register as a CO, but apparently you can't actually do that unless it is currently a war-time situation or some perplexity of that nature. Perhaps had i been a year younger i could have then.. hm.

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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"If all those usefull inventions that are lyable to abuse, should therefore be concealed, there is not any Art or Science, which might be lawfully profest."
-John Wilkins, Mercury, or the Secret and Swift messenger, shewing how a man may with privacy and speed Communicate his thoughts to a Friend at any distance (London, 1641)
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

Am i mis-reading this, or are every one of the backers of ths bill Democrats?



I find that strangely ironic/sardonically amusing.

On a side-note, my friend and i had a very tastey dinner of Freedom Bread Waffles tonight..

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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"If all those usefull inventions that are lyable to abuse, should therefore be concealed, there is not any Art or Science, which might be lawfully profest."
-John Wilkins, Mercury, or the Secret and Swift messenger, shewing how a man may with privacy and speed Communicate his thoughts to a Friend at any distance (London, 1641)
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

[This message has been edited by Dormouse (edited May 24, 2004).]

English culture isn't exceptionally anti-foreign, but it certainly depends on where you go. There's quite some anti-Arab and anti-black sentiment in and around London, especially in Finnsbury, and some people are quite worried about increasing numbers of European immigrants. For the most part, though, Europeans are quite welcome. Americans, though, I think are fairly unpopular across the country, but it probably depends on how well you fit to the British view of the American stereotype (Flag waving Texan "gawd bleys America usa! usa! usa!). If you have a strong American accent, I think you should be careful about who you talk to and what you say. Tony Blair might like America, but Britons tend not to.


And the World Trade Centre attacks showed how helpless that technological edge is against fighters willing to end their lives to get at you. Technology doesn't matter when you're facing an enemy that is willing to blow himself up to kill you. Americans would never have anywhere near that sort of devotion to a cause.
Perhaps they do need a few more meat shields in Iraq while they figure out exactly what they should do.

I think I'm going to disagree...it's when you're unable to use technology to its full capabilities is when it becomes helpless.

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Roach - Caught in the war of hemispheres.
0 of 14.

Hey -- I'm sure a cruise missile or two could take my place in a war.. there should be an option to let me buy one instead of going to fight.

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Have a good one,
Freelancer

Yes. This bill is not backed by the Bush Administration, nor is it anything to worry about. Someone drafts one of these things during every session of Congress.

Of course, that doesn't stop idiots from using it as anti-Bush propaganda. Some people would blame Bush for tornadoes, earthquakes, and hurricanes if they could get away with it.

Exactly. I keep hearing that propaganda bull**** all over american media (and then later repeated by americans) about how the soldiers in iraq are "fighting for our freedom", "fighting to protect our country", or the good old "freedom isn't free" argument. There's a lot of free countries, america isn't the only one. And you don't see them fighting wars in the name of it.


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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

How exactly is technology going to stop a suicide bomber on the streets of Washington?
I guess technology could be used to try and stop explosives being smuggled into the country, but considering that many explosives can be built (or bought) in the US, sometimes using household items, that probably won't help much. In the Bali bombings, almost all of the components were bought locally.

In a recent security announcement, people (or specifically police, I'm not sure) were told to look out for 'people of Arab origin, wearing large coats, especially on hot days, sometimes with their fists clenched tightly'. That's really about all you can do to prevent the martydom operations, and even if you kill one then a dozen more will rise up.

Suicide bombings are cheap and easy. I think the World Trade Centre attacks cost little more than $1,000, mostly in renting vans and apartments. It only takes a dozen people or so, and although the Al Qaeda network does span across the world, the individual cells have a lot of autonomy; they're not stupid, and they're not going to tell a lot of people about the details of the plan, in case one of their fighters is captured and interrogated (and tortured).
All this technology isn't going to save you.

This thread is awesome! The hysteria is great! You know, I just came to a startling conclusion upon reading all of the unfounded whining in this thread.

Liberal types have the reputation for championing the rights of the oppressed but nearly all of the whining here has to do with how you all hate your country, **** the president (even though he's opposed to the same thing you're all whining about here), and how you would never want to serve. All such selfish reasons. Not much complaining about how others could be forced to serve. Not much complaining about the degredation it would do to the military. And you also don't seem to care much about the rights of those who have or are being liberated through the use of military force throughout the world.

Hey, don't worry. Your military doesn't want you to serve, your president doesn't want you to serve, and you don't want to serve. Other people will continue to do it for you. Now just go back to hating your country.

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Have you forgotten ...

All of us americans are so proud of our own country...We are ALL patriotic...Oh wait...no we aren't. I remember after 9/11 EVERYONE had an american flag. What happened to that? I remember seeing every car with a flag, every house...now I bareley see them. I am embarassed to live in the present day America. People do what they are told, they go with the flow. We are all getting fatter and lazier. "What, something bad happened? We need to buy little flags becuase we are PATRIOTIC!"

IMO, Canada is the smartest of the countries.

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OSC Empire | A.H.N.U.L.D.
[Jim7 PING reply]: 666secs

[This message has been edited by SAJN_Master (edited May 25, 2004).]

I remember seeing, on a news report, a car that had a 'USA' bumper sticker cellotaped to the car. Cellotaped! They wanted to appear patriotic, but not for any longer than necessary. heh.

Because you'd be obligated to by law. Citizenship brings responsibilities as well as rights, and that's one of them. Your recourse is to vote for someone with different policies.



Yeah, this being a free country and all, we should have the right to do whatever the **** we want, right? Wrong. We have our ideals, but we're still a country. The government would be pointless if it didn't have the power to defend itself.



If pride in your refusal to fight for freedom is the prevailing notion in the world today, we are much, much worse off than we were sixty years ago. Didn't agree with Iraq? Fine, but I sincerely hope your pathetic, selfish and intransigent mindset is not as widespread as you like to think.

...I thought the whole point of living in a democratic country is that you don't have to agree with or support everything the government does.

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Flibbledy-dibbledy! Nyaaaaaaaahhh!

-The Last True Evil

Its times like this I'm damn proud to be a Canadian.

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<Outlaw_Torn> you mean your related to that damned sasquatch, Mech?
<MechWarrior> Lets just say the part of the family tree that does fork has bossy the goat in it.

<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?

SAJN - I visited the States a few weeks before the WTC/Pentagon attacks (Nobody seems to remember that the Pentagon was struck too...) and saw more American flags randomly draping off of houses in Imperial Beach than St George crosses in a whole lifetime in England.

It's not all that bad really

Oh, and we have two St. George crosses at our house in Durham. Bring it on.



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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Well that's fine. I guess when this force decides to kill millions of innocent people, destroy countries one by one and going against one man's idea of "peace," you should sit back and enjoy life while turmoil continues around you. Prehaps an end to this bloodshed could be seen by making people, who experienced peace for many years, sacrifice (life or time) and fight together for a better future for countries and the world....but nah.

(but this doesn't apply to the Iraq War or Vietnam though)

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)

-------@%

The Massassi JO/JA Single Player contest info

The Bill will never pass. It was suggested by the sponsors that if everyone was subject to having to fight a war, then we might be less willing to go to war, and the casualties aren't just statistics. That's it. There is no other reason, because a drafted military is less effective than a volunteer one.

No one else wants a drafted army, because people who don't want to be there are not going to do the job as well as one who is there voluntarily.

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Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....

Damn right. There are plenty of others out there who lust for killing, let them go and fight in my place. I'm disabled anyways.

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"I can hammer a nail into a piece of wood, but that doesn't make me a carpenter."

[This message has been edited by Mr. Alias (edited May 25, 2004).]

*shrugs* I don't know. I was referring to wars in general. If it applied to Iraq at all, it would apply to the Kurds and other Iraqis.
how about fighting any war? At least give us the dignity of getting an education before we're sent out into the frontlines.

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The sooner you realize I'm right the better off you will be.

Do... Do I and sine see on the same level for once?

You know, when two people who constantly disagree on... everything finally agree on something, they must be right. In-fact, I feel so bad about Sine agreeing with me now, I might have to go and change my opinion...

JediKirby

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<]-[ellequin> Nothing is quite as satisfying as placing a .177 lead pellet in between the eyes of a cat.
<]-[ellequin> I think I will leave it's corpse there, to warn all the other cats to keep out of my hibiscus patch

Live on, Adam.

Kieran: No, I wouldn't fight in WWII. It was probably one of the most worthy wars, but there's no way to know that except in retrospect.

No. My conscience overrides absolutely everything else, including the laws of the nation I am a citizen of.

There's never been a war for freedom, as every armed conflict is inevitably sullied by a host of immoral actions and individuals. You can judge a war by its ends, but they rarely if ever justify the means.