Are you kidding me?!? That is EXACTLY what we're 'made' for!

Thank you Detty!

I saw a few earlier posts about celts worshiping evil gods and nearly stamped on a few idiotic bible bashing people that seem so wide spread in this day and age.

This goes for all followers of the Bible:

JUST BECAUSE IT ISNT A RELIGION OF THE BIBLE, QURAN, OR TORAH, DOESNT MEAN CELTS AND WICCANS FOLLOW THE DEVIL.

And may I point out there is a church of satan/devil, lead by an american in an other wise normal bible bashing community?

Great Thanks, annoying me with religous debate woke me up, now I have to deal with my dumba** girlfriend.

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

Exactly! Welcome to the forum dude - hope you'll stick around.

Follow me a bit in this thought experiment...

One day, god comes down to earth and speaks to all humans. Like, it's god for sure - people feel love and harmony, animals communicate as brothers with all other organisms, no more wars, Africans die of even more vicious diseases, etc... It's god FOR SURE.

And she talks to us, and explains all about the universe to us. And on this one subject Islam had it right, and on another element Christianity was right, and on yet another, Flying Spaghetti Monsterism seemed to be correct, etc...

Then she starts talking about afterlife and she says
Sorry, but you had it ALL wrong - there is NO afterlife. You die, and that's it.

How many people would still go to church you think? How many would still protest outside hospitals with homosexuals dying inside? How many would fly planes into buildings to please their warlord? How many would invade 'the axis of evil' to please theirs? How many would deny Africa condoms?

Funny, we'd know for sure God exists, and there would be only atheists.

So this is my thesis: every action the religious/religious institutes do, is psychological blackmail against this supposedly all-powerful entity, in order for you to be granted eternal life.

People wouldn't be atheists after that, they'd be non-demoninational.

Humans are so fed up with power that when we lack the power over our ultimate fate, we have to get it back somehow. A creature, a being of some sort, gives us a chance to 'live forever' if we do this this and that, and suddenly, we have the power again. If you were to take out the allure of Heaven, very very very very few people would still want to please this God.

Right, this is going to be a pretty long post. First of all, I was raised a JW. I left the sect not so long ago.

You say that: The problem is that JW's ARE extremists (Consider their stance on divorce, abortion and blood transfusion). As for the stupid part, I wouldn't go as far as to say that JW's are inherently stupid, but consider what you yourself write: So, basically JW's are basing all their beliefs on the Watchtowers sayings without any criticism? This is what almost all JW's do, accepting any doctrine (And multiple changes to the same) without questioning.

Actually, the 144,000 is the so-called "little flock" of JW's, who are going to govern the earth from heaven together with Christ. All other JW's will survive Armageddon and live forever in Paradise on earth (With no diseases, wars and such). However, the 99.9 % of the worlds population isn't so fortunate: Every one of us will be killed, yes, killed as in total extinsion without mercy or forgiveness.

This only applies to JW's. All others will be killed, whether they are christians or not.

You are actually pretty lucky that the elders (Leaders of JW congregations) do not know about this or don't care about it, I know if I did, I would have gotten into trouble over it.

This is actually a classic Watchtower argument against these kinds of things. I bet you looked it up.

Koobie is right about this one. According to the Watchtower God and Satan is competing for iltimate sovoreignity over the Universe by numbers of followers. (Right now Satan is winning by about 1,000 times.).

This is an interesting argument. Many Christian denominations are engaged in social works like the ones you mention, however the Watchtower has an annual profit of over one billion dollars, yet it is involved in absolutely no charities what so ever. JW's are even discouraged from donating money to humanitarian work.

There is absolutely no basis for this in the bible. The reason that this is the only holiday that JW's celebrate is that it is forbidden to celebrate all others (Because they have "pagan" and "satanistic" origins).

Right you are, Jedigreedo. The indoctrination of JW's is so strict that they never have time to think for themselves. Most of their reasoning is taken directly from Watchtower publications.

JW's are extremely monotheistic, believing Jehovah to be the supreme God of everything (Also, no trinity. Jesus is the son of God and therefore lesser).

JW's like to blame every problem of the world on Satan or demons. This goes for everything that is sinful too. You'd be surprised to hear how many things are considered demonic (One of the more absurd examples is chess. Yes, chess. Chess was banned during the 70's, also partly because it increases competition).

How very loving of you. But thanks, I can hardly wait for Armageddon.

Most JW's are being kept in the sect out of sheer fear of the commanding leaders of the sect, fear of being disfellowshipped, plus, Armageddon is always looming in the back of their heads.

More specifically: 1874, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1945 and 1975. After their most recent failure with 1975, they now abstain from predicting any more dates, but instead tell their followers that Armageddon is "very close" (Which it apparently has been for over 130 years).

Well, this is basically JW's for you. If you ask anyone about their often changing propheties they will deny ever saying it, though it is right in their litterature.

dbug, dbug, dbug. Copying text from the Watchtower cd/website is not really a good way of argumentation.

Yes. An exclusive translation was needed to better support the JW's (Ever changing) doctrine. Many bible critics agree that it is a poorly written bible, with many mangled translations.

Actually, God's name as written in the bible is best rendered as YHWH. Any way of writing it is pure speculation, since all record of this has been lost. (Actually, bible critics believe Yahweh to be closer.)


Thank you Kirby. You said that better than I could.

I would just like to say that God does not equal "the church". Christianity is about love and relationships! Not rules and regulations.

Love > Legalism

And to piggy-back on Genki:

HOORAY FOR NO MIDDLEMAN!


Btw,
Jesus chastised the Jewish temple for their crazy amounts of laws.
I doubt very much that he would come back and encourage such a legalistic system.

Actually, Bluevain, you are wrong. Did you make that up? Christianity is about being "nice" to God first, man second.

Sorry, I was in a rush and my words came out wrong. I meant to say that Christianity is about love and having a relationship with Jesus Christ. Jesus calls his followers friends. So yeah, sorry for the mix up.

The idea of Holier then Thou should Never be joined with religion

Well said, Ruthven. People really need to understand this.

People, stop navigating on watchtowers and holy books.

Every human being has a beautiful instrument, a perfectly working compass to all their moral actions, called the conscience. When you do something, your conscience will know if you do right or wrong. Listen to it more often and you'll be a good person.

I want to be a good person, whether there is a God or not. I want to live a life of love, compassion and empathy, whether I am granted eternal life or not.

It would be the joke of all eternity, if people who always lived lives of conscience would be denied their 'reward' for lack of a JW membership card. That'd be a damn bureaucratic god.

.

Ironically, those are the people who probably don't deserve it (that is, those who do it just for "fire insurance" from Hell).

Not portals, but viels. People need to realize that Pagan worships were not taken too harshly in account unless threatened; what I mean is, they believe the spirits of the dead is on another world, and that the veil will be at it's weakest point during Samhein (sow-in). During this time, children often dressed in funkay outfits to try to "get into the spirit" and understand these harmless spirits more, while the adults usually give gifts much like our Christmas today.

I'd like to clarify a few things. First, all of our beliefs are directly based on the bible. I'm not saying there aren't those who have a 'it's explained in our watchtower attitude', but it all boils down to whats in scripture. Second, God can read hearts, and there will be ones that do not know his will and purpose during armageddon. He will judge accordingly. Third, I have no doubt there is quite a bit of money coming in our organization. Personally, I have much more faith that the money will be used wisely than in some worldy charity. None of our members get paid. The money supports our work (printing, building meeting places, etc). Fourth, we do not blame every problem on Satan and the demons. We believe the world is in the current state it is in (which is not great right now) because of Satan. If you believe what the bible says, then you know this. Fifth, NO ONE is in our religion because of fear (of disfellowshipping or whatever else). The 'commanding leaders', aka elders are there to help and guide ones. If we allowed people to do whatever they wanted and still be in our organization, what's the point of organized religion in the first place? And yes there are many things that are considering demonic. Obviously fortune tellers, occultism, worship on the dead, etc. But most things just boil down to personal choice. We aren't ordered which movies, tv, games, music we can or can't watch. We make our own decisions on that. Sixth. As the condition of the world gets worse, yes, we are progressively getting closer to the end. Does this mean that just because some thought the end should have come many years ago that it's not coming at all? I don't think so. The more time God allows for this system allows for more people to learn the truth about the bible. And in 1975, it wasn't a 'prediction'. The watchtower simply asked a question to the effect 'could this be a sign of the last days'. Yes, many overreacted, and many left the organization. This showed the real reason they served Jehovah. We serve God because we love him and have faith in him as the creator. That is the primary reason. Not because we can get into a paradise or heaven or whatnot. Seventh, our translation of the bible is written to be easier to understand. Why use 'thee' and 'thou' when it's not used in command language anymore? We will explain our beliefs from King James or New World Translation. It all has the same meaning. And no one can know for sure the exact pronouciation or spelling of God's name. That's something you have to do your research on. Even if it wasn't right, would you think God is so cold and firm so as not to listen to his servants who slightly mispronounce his name? That's all I have to say. I just encourage anyone who has some misconception or problem with us, to actually TALK to a witness in person, and not just base your disagreement on some information you found on google. Even if you don't agree with our beliefs, at least you will know what we base them on. That's my 2 cents. Thanks for reading.
- justin

I would, because faith not only holds the key to the afterlife, but they're actually pretty good morals to follow, even if you're not religious, and even if there ended up not being a heaven.

I think there's a more important question at issue here.

Why are Jehovah's Witnesses so bad at formatting?

GOD DOES NOT NEED YOUR .S OR 'S!!!

well um

you're a communist nazi jew! from space!

[ err...no ]

>_>

Erm, potentially offensive link above

Wow:p

Uh....

How come?

Well, first of all giving money to charities such as the Red Cross and other religious charities is discouraged because JW's believe that they should not associate with these religions. Furthermore, they believe they should preach their beliefs to people and secure them eternal life, to help them forever, instead of helping them momentarily now. They believe that their humanitarian efforts would be wasted, as Armageddon would still come.

There is a very extensive program to help needy JW's in other countries, however this doesn't apply to non-JW's.

Wow.

Exactly. I think it is a very inhuman way of thinking.

Wrong. While the majority of our relief work is in place to help JW's (and you have to understand every single person that volunteers to help is not paid, they take care of their own expenses. we obviously do not have the resources to fix every single house), we do help others. One of my friends went down to LA and MS a few weeks ago to work and they did 15 roofs that weekend, 3 of which were just people in the neighborhood that couldnt afford it. In foreign countries we do the same thing (distributing food, repairing homes, etc), really more so because of the overall poverty.

So it's like.. the lazy man's Christianity?

er what?

I had a boss once that was a JW. I wished him merry christmas. He hated me from that point on.