They tried making alcohol illegal - it didn't work. Thats why there are two constitutional ammendments devoted to it.

What we REALLY should be asking ourselves is, why does the federal government have to right to tell us what we can and can't do with our own bodies?

Because you can slam into my kid walking across the street, or shoot your buddy in the face cause youre "omg so high dude"

Seconded. Ask yourself what freedom is. REAL freedom.

Bogus. That only happens on alcohol. If you think that, you have no idea whatsoever of the effects of these drugs. If anything, marijuana makes people more peaceful. Fights in bars abound. Fights in coffeeshops (NL) almost never occur.

1) It's already illegal to harm someone under the influence of either alcohol or marijuana. So if you're worried about people harming others, increase the penalty for driving under the influence.

2) Everything is bad for an individual when not in moderation. Personally, I think that if I had the guts to illegally drink alcohol I'd have less struggles with social anxiety... but I guess it's a bit dangerous to view alcohol as a solution to a problem. The point is, a glass of a wine a day shouldn't be illegal. A little bit of pot in your own home shouldn't be illegal. Getting drunk/high and then driving on the highway should be.

3) Making something illegal does not prevent its use. It merely makes the act a "rebellion", something that must be done in hiding which only makes the use less regulated and less safe. During Prohibition, there wasn't an end to alcohol use, just an increase in bootlegging.

etc

Someone bumped into me the other day walking on the sidewalk and I'm fairly positive he wasn't under the influence of any mind-altering substances. Someone, somewhere, got shot in the face yesterday, probably by someone who was sober.

Shooting people should remain illegal. Know why? Because it's harming others. People are accountable for their actions no matter what their level of sobriety.

That said, I'd like you to give me a link to a story about a violent crime committed by someone because they were "so high". (on weed)

I completelly understand those points, but you don't need alcohol to survive social stress. Use meditation, go on a hike and get high off air. I don't know, people just scapegoat way too damn much these days. I used to be a pot-head for a good part of my childhood, and while I don't regret it, as it's made me who I am today, I acheive the same frame of mind by meditating, lifting weights, and paintball/airsofting. All things that don't have negative effects even similar to alcohol or weed.

JediKirby

Well, you've responded to one of my weakest points. Sure, I shouldn't look to alcohol to solve social problems, I conceded as much.

But you don't have any reason why the State has to force people to act in the "right" way. Even if alcohol and marijuana are bad for you (and I tend to think the latter always is... and the former is when not in moderation), then legalize it to keep it regulated. But it's very possible to use either without harming anyone else, and I don't understand why you need the State to tell you how to be healthy. It sounds like you made a healthy choice when you quit. Did you do it because of the federal law? (the answer is no :p )

I don't want to get into the "good for you \ bad for you" debate, but I can't resist posting this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051026/hl_nm/pot_cancer_dc;_ylt=AkXL2G_fXuUldw28L9XSB9Gs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-

Legal marijuana? Pfft. MY city has a new department called the "Office of Compassionate Use." And it's devoted to giving people marijuana. So there. :p

Oh, and our mayor is a former Communist.

Hooray. Now there's a precedent that might influence other places in the country to allow people to practice idiocy without repercussions. How exciting. At least with alcohol abuse, when people go out in public and operate machinery there's a good possibility of them ending their pitiful and worthless existences. Marijuana doesn't cause enough disorientation to help weed these idiots out.

I have to say, I think Jedi Legend brings up some excellent points, as well as Warlord. People shouldn't be penalized for using a drug in moderation. There is a big difference between using a drug peacably and then committing a crime or other murder under the influence. As said before, marijuana is actually a "peacful" drug. I've never done drugs and never intend to, but I have a friend who has used them and he has described it exactly the same. If anything, you awareness is heightened, not diminished.

In summary, people should be held responsible for their actions - if a man kills someone under the influence, he should be treated the same as a clear-headed murderer. Similarly, a peaceful man who uses marijuana without harming those around him should be left to his own devices. It is the person using the drug, not the drug itself, that is at fault.

Packed tight into a sandwich bag. Loose, it will be about 1/3 to 1/2 a bigger bag.

I love Santa Cruz!

This goes back to a lot of things, including the basic notion that the majority of people can't act in such a way that, when taken together, will do something other than harm to the community, society, and government. Things like alcohol, marijuana, drugs, etc, though maybe not now (because now it might just be zealous antidrug or moral people), were originally banned, etc because of their further effect on the collective "evil" of people as a whole. And, government is the necessary 'counter-evil' to keep us in check. (extended/adjusted Hobbes' "man is inherently evil"). That's the point of HAVING a government.

But that's only from one political or individualistic way of thinking. It just happens that that way of thinking has persisted, at least in its practices, in federal government.

(the other ways, in the US at least, are jeffersonian or emersonian/transcend. or libertarian blahblahetc in which government doesnt have to care so much)

Smoke up, mates!

I am curious to see the results of this legal experiment.

I just love it when you call us all idiots. I love it when people are condescending. Why not let everyone live their lives?

So we should make Alcohol illegal, a drug that can be made extremely easily on your own (weed is much harder to grow than alcohol is to make), and further limit our freedom of choice in this world? People are going to do 'harmful' drugs whether you want them to or not. Illegalities only create a black market that does not help the economy at all. The reason alcohol isn't illegal is because people would literally riot all over the country to get it back, and it would end up creating another Capone-style black market which would end up bringing a massive blow to our economy. Think about weed in an open market--it would be regulated, easily distributed, and bought by pretty much every 20 something out there. When you're talking about even a little taxation on something like that you've got a great influx of money on something that's nowhere near as harmful as alcohol.

And as to someone taking it to the supreme court--who? Why? The only thing that could happen is the FBI could bust down someone's door and arrest them for...a misdemeanor (in most states, having an ounce or less is a misdemeanor as long as you're not distributing). Honestly, this will stick, even though it didn't so long ago in Las Vegas, and hopefully the US government will learn from this.

i found this bit in the article slightly funny

Here.
Just been reading through the thread and thought I'd contribute this, since the idea of 'slamming' into someone was brought up.


Bogus.

YOU obviously don't know the effects. You probably settle for the whole relieves stress idea that most people do (and I don't blame you because other effects aren't as publicized) but weed does can tend to make some one more violent. By that, I don't mean he'll become jason, take a chainsaw and hack everyone down. Of course not. What it does do, is make someones angered reactions more aggressive. A fact is, mary-j also tends to lessen, deteriorate smoker's motivation to do stuff.

And those are scientifical fact. Look it up if you want. I've studied this **** some and well, having a brother who is a pothead (and a big one at that) I've seen him change and I've seen his motivation sink deeper and deeper every day, month, year.

But sure. Only drunks get in fights. Keep believing that.

hey man, yeah man, that's sweet man. Dude...

The misinformation Jep and Livid are peddling is astounding. Weed does in fact calm you down--though its main classfication is a hallucinagen (sounds). I've never seen it have the adverse effect on anyone--ever.

Livid--so what, he was high? The guy was obviously an idiot anyways--being high doesn't mean anything. For chrissakes, the articles calls it "skunk". Obviously not a knowledgable source, just the media playing off the drug angle.

Jep--I'm a stoner. I've got a 3.5 GPA currently. Marijuana doesn't cause fights, and it only makes people with no self-control lazy and lethargic in their real lives.

'Skunk' would be a British slang term (in this area, at least). Warlord asked for a "story about a violent crime committed by someone because they were "so high". (on weed)", so I gave him a link.

As for the guy being an idiot anyway...true. But that argument could also be applied to people who've committed an offence under the influence of alcohol, or any other substance.

Just for the record, I'm not against the legalisation of marijuana. What people do is their own business as far as I'm concerned, so long as it remains their business and doesn't affect me.

There'll probably be places for people to smoke pot, and outside thatarea it'll be illegal. Works for Holland.

Yoshi, either way, bull**** or not that I say, stoners are no better than alcoholics.

[ Let's try to keep it a little civil and productive to the discussion. ]

Jep, I smoke pot and I can tell you a thing or two about it.

First off, pot smokers don't really WANT to be able to smoke in public. God knows I don't. Except maybe when I go to the movies or something. We just wanna chill out and listen to some music or something.

Pot doesn't effect you as much as alcohol unless you smoke about 12 bowls in one night.

Let's ****ing go to Denver and smoke an ounce, Yosh.

I'd go crazy if someone ruined my night at the movies with their disgusting smelling pot. lol

But then, most likely like cigarettes or beer, you could probably not consume it there, or any where under-aged (i guess)

I don't mean smoking during the movie. I mean smoking beforehand. I wouldn't smoke cigarettes in a theater either. That's just plain rude.

*nods* Of course thats acceptable.

I don't smoke weed and I think this is awesome because its allowing more personal freedom. Like someone above me said, if your worried about people DUI'ing than you need to petition the punishments of such to be a lot worse (which I am in favor of, regardless of whether or not weed is legal). It's about time the government started letting people do what they want.

Does anyone here know who Jello Biafra is? He's got a very good case as for why pot should be legalized, and about 90% of it has nothing to do with getting high. Hemp can be used for a lot of things.

Just because it's illegal doesnt make it right....


<.<

I would post the video, but I don't know whether the admins would approve... =\

Muah that squirrel rocks.

Thanks for the link, but this only works if you consider DUI to be a violent crime. Sure, people died, but it was an accident, albeit an accident enabled by weed. But by violent crime I meant assault, battery, murder, rape. Violent crime has intent behind it. Obviously, if marijuana were totally legalized, driving under the influence would be prohibited just as it is with alcohol.

I'm not a pothead, but most of my friends do, and I noticed that it mellows them out, or doesn't even change them at all.

As for the legalization, I think it's a good thing; people should be able to do what they want to as long as it doesn't have a negative effect on other people.

I also think if the government made it legal, it would make a lot of users stop doing it. Some people I know only do it because it is 'rebellious'. Not to mention the huge amount of income the US would be receiving.

All Ghost can say is, I knew this was going to happen sonner or later, I forsaw it, and now everyone is so surprised when it DOES happen...

Then I guess we'll start calling you Madame Ghost and give you a crystal ball! :p