Well I'll be damned - were my last n posts on the subject conveniently ignored once again?

Some people are born with a sweet tooth. Some people live in an area with more apple trees. Some might have never seen an apple in their entire life. Some people were taught to eat fruit once a day. Some might have had that reinforced by an example from an influential role model, influential in varying degrees because of physical attractiveness, physical and emotional proximity, body odor, perceived social status... , or even by more than one role model. Some people have a higher hunger->satisfaction threshold, which they might have been born with, or which might have been temporarily induced by withdrawal from smoking.

What you're saying, IOW, is that someone has a bigger chance of ending up in hell (=eating the apple) if he/she is trying to quit smoking.

This 'free choice' **** all of you apparently STILL champion was acceptable in the particular biblical environment it was proposed, 2000 years ago. But supposedly, we have evolved beyond that and have learned (which I think isn't true at all - people are still the same beasts), so I suggest we drop the 'free will' rhetorics. It's not-that-simple.

Ok, just got back from a friend's house. Wow, 3 pages? I only read the first page, and nice points guys, REAAALLY nice points. I hadn't thought about it in some of those ways.

When I say I believe in NT/OT completely, I mean I believe it all happened. I mean, NO problem believing everything in the Bible happened. It's what was REALLY going on with Jesus's death that messes me up, but He WAS real, HE DID DIE, and Paul/Peter/Etc. DID spread out and spread His religion.

I am a Catholic, and my Bible class teacher at school taught like the entire Bible to us last year, so I know A LOT of what happened and such, and I know the story of Jesus EXTREMELY (I can't stress that enough) WELL. I mean, it's not just the Crucifixion, everything that happened to Him and details about what happened to Him I know a LOT about, like Roman/Jewish rule (Sadducees + Pharisees = Sandhedrin :p)

I'll think about it some more, and read the rest of this thread later. The main reason I'm bringing it up online is because if I ask my mom/Bible teacher, they'd probably start freaking out that I'm not Christian or anything.

I am a Christian but I don't believe in original sin. I believe that every commandmandment God gives us will not be impossible for us to obey. I don't believe God would start out the existance of man by saying we're all evil sinners. I think that Eve eating the fruit of knowledge was just a concious choice on her part. It wasn't a sin that she ate the fruit. Adam and Eve just had to live with the consequences of their choice even though they were not chosing between obedience and sin. They were just chosing to progress. They couldn't have had kids in the garden. The whole purpose of the earth couldn't be fulfilled untill they had eaten the fruit of knowledge. I don't think that we are born sinners.

Except that he wasn't exactly acting in a fit of rage. If you read that passage of the Bible, Jesus doesn't sound like a very angry guy. He had it all planned it and executed it all very calmly. Take note that he didn't beat random people with whips, but instead he just drove out the animals and then explained to everyone why he just did what he did.

I'm not going to read though this, because most of it will turn out to be un-informed rubbish, but to answer the original question of why Jesus is important:

Before Jesus, to be forgiven for our sins a sacrifice had to be made. The finest lamb or calve would have to be chosen to cover our transgressions. Jesus is 'the lamb of God, or the perfect sacrifice. He was blameless, but still his blood was shed and according to the Bible he also took on the sins of the world in his dying moments (recall the part in the Bible where it says that God turned his back on him). The spilling of his perfect blood for us and him taking the sins of the Earth with him into death is the creation of a new convenant.

Gothicx, stop writing on your bible. It's meant to be a holy thing

I'm not sure what I think about Jesus and original sin, because surely if he was human he'd have it too. I thought Jesus was supposed to be human, but I guess if he really was the son of God, then he could have customised attributes.

But the thing is, there's no way to be sure about any of religion these days. We can only ask what others believe.

I, however, do not believe in Christianity, because there is not sufficient evidence to back up God existing, nor any of the events described as miraculous as ever occuring. Call me a scientist or what not, but I simply can't believe all this happened so long ago, and now, 2000 years later, God hasn't reminded us (of weaker faith) that he exists, not even once. Also, evolution kind of demeans it all.

If you believe everything in the Bible as historical truth, you're not doing a great job being Catholic. It's accepted theology since Vatican II (which was long before you were born) that while canonical Scripture is always symbolically true, it's not always a reliable source for historical and factual information.

i.e. You're being a good Fundy.