He must not be very smart, then.

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Map-Review | My Portfolio | The Matrix: Unplugged

A thread title that actually follows up on what is says! WOW! Good stuff.

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"This thread is still alive? Someone should kill it."

I think the word "flaming" is way too liberally applied in Massassi. I've seen 2, maybe 3 true flames here in my time at Massassi. This thread is not one of them.

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The sooner you realize I'm right the better off you will be.

OMFG! KIERAN HORN SUCKS SO BAD. HE IS THE WORST PERSON EVER. I WISH HE WOULD GO SUCK ON A ROCK AND DIE. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE AWESOME. IF HE DIED. BECAUSE HE SUCKS. GO SUK ON A ROCK KIERAN. SO YOU CAN DIE.

There's yer flame.

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"Just remember -- No matter how bad things get, Northern Minnesota will always be there"
-- Garrison Keeler

I hate the human so much i'm going to become a big mean person and slowly kill you off with Theoretial Algebra eqautions.

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---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.

I have an agreement with God. If he shows me that He exists... and if He wanted to He could do it quite privately, like in a dream or something (he's all powerful you know) then I will believe in him and go to his church on Sundays.

Otherwise, the only evidence I've seen that there is a God... well I've seen none. I've only been told by people who "know for a fact" and back it up with bible stories and other things that aren't really firm evidence. They have also said "you just have to have faith", and maybe I will if I go through a moving experience that makes me believe in God.

I dont find people who believe in God or Gods to be foolish, mind you. I would, actually I do find the idea that there is a place (Heaven) that I will go after I die and be happy forever very comforting. Any existence might even be better than what I think happens, and what I think happens is we experience the exact same thing as what it was like before we were born... nothingness. It creeps me out whenever I really think about it, just not experiencing anything anymore.

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"Guns don't kill people, I kill people."

I think it sounds quite cool actually.



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free mp3 ~Jump - Young America

new album Between the Dim and the Dark available now

Yeah the idea used to disturb me a bit till I realised, hey, been there before

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1, 2 & 3 | Gonkmeg
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

Run forgets nothing! Except that my computer skills occassionally take a vacation (see sig) Although you should notice the cleverness of my new name: Run- = Run dash. Get it?

I crack me up

Even though I don't believe in god(s), the concept of one doesn't really bother me since it's something that could never be proven either way. The concept of only one god only bugs me though. If we can have god, why not another?


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This one day I went to change my password, but being the clever chappy that I am, I accidently typed the new pw into the e-mail address bar and clicked submit, hence the slightly modified new user name. Go me and my awesome computer skills.

I just figure that God may or may not exist, and leave it at that.

All we can do, is try to accept the fact that there is NO meaning, and that we are slaves of our genes.

NO god.

NO afterlife.

No meaning.

Only DEATH.

It's hard, because as soon as a man's thoughts are alone with that gaping hole we call DEATH (=24/7), he'll freak out and will try to turn his mind away from it. In that sense, religion is the most obvious type of mental masturbation possible. Others: science, sports, arts... (which I all do, btw)

And you'll have a lot of people saying: "check, no meaning, got it", but even though they understand it, they dont GET IT.

I am acutally one of those people, because otherwise I wouldn't be spending my time on writing the BS I am writing now.

As I am always writing. Whatever is written, is BS. Whatever is, is BS.

If I had dual personality (which schizophrenia is usually not) and my other personality believed in God, while my dominant personality was an atheist, and the former would not exist if it weren't for my mental ailment, would I get to heaven stuck in crazy mode?

It's not that I don't believe in God, it's just that I prefer my Dog.

Things to ponder.

Anyway, I believe religion can be an extremely comforting thought to those who haven't come to terms with the idea of not existing. The mind usually has some sort of safety precaution for stressful thoughts and situations, something that the concept of not existing can be to those who worry about it. Or thinking life is pointless, religion can keep such thoughts away. The curse of belonging to a mentally advanced species is questioning everything.

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If you can read this, you need better glasses.

I don't believe in God because I think I'm too scientific. Creation is a leap of faith my brain is unprepared to take.

I find it hard to believe a just and true God would turn people away from eternal life in heaven because they didn't believe in him, yet led honest decent lives.

(And Fear, if you come back and read this I still remember where you stand )

I also bear no grudge to religious people, just the overbearing ones who don't even practice what they preach.

I also find it hard to believe that we must choose one religion, say christianity, and then condemn good honest muslims etc to the flames. Some religions are happy with the others, but some aren't. It's silly.

Afterlife? I don't know - I suppose I'll find out sooner or later! I'm keeping an open mind.

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

God has been a useful way of filling in gaps in scientific knowledge. Science is able to say "I don't know", that is a perfectly legitimate scientific conclusion, but it isn't a legitimate religious conclusion.

But "God" is a word that is used in so many ways, possible more than any other word, and so you really should rephrase the question to be a little more specific. You could say "God is love" or "God is the miracle of birth" or somesuch and that would pretty much guarantee the existance of God.
The traditional mainstream philosophy of Judaism, Christianity and Islam is the concept of God as a separate single supernatural entity, outside of the Universe, outside of logic, outside of laws, and acting on the Universe from the outside. However, the Spinozan philosophy is that "nothing exists but God". God is everything, God is the universe, God is nature, God is the chair you're sitting on now. So, to understand the universe, to understand science, is to understand God. This very abstract philosophical idea is understandably popular among physicists, but it is almost the antithesis of the mainstream person-God following. I think the Spinozan philosophy is very elegant.


If there is is one God, then Mohammed must be His prophet. The way I see it is that God came to Abraham and began Judaism. Over the next 2000 years, the Jews meander away from God and He comes to the prophet Jesus Christ to set things straight. But the Christians too got it wrong, and so 700 years later God comes to the prophet Mohammed and sets things straight once again, explaining how the Christians and the Jews got it wrong. Considering how God hasn't come back again since, it seems a sensible assumption that the Muslims got it right. Also, considering that it only took 700 years before God came back, the Christians must have got something very wrong very quickly.

Asking a Christian 'why do you believe in God?' will give you a long answer, usually following the antrophic principle. But ask them 'why are you a Christian?' and you're less likely to get such a solid answer. How can you believe in God and refuse the prophet Mohammed?

Massassi has quite a few radical non-believers. And a couple are always uncivilized and completely berserk in their so-called "reasoning."



[This message has been edited by Morfildor (edited May 31, 2004).]

Don't put reasoning between ". Tenshu is right and the epitome of logic on this one.

Hey, thanks dude.

No problem man. We should discuss ideas sometime.

It's showdown time homeboy.

You say I'm not capable of reasoning? Jesus. A quick example on how mind****ed people can be...

Say a guy comes to these forums. He writes a few dozen of threads, all about the aforementioned Chinese marshmallow okapis doing the saftey dance to Mobb Deep while reciting the table of Mendeljev.

Replies pop up left and right. This guy is a TROLL. Let's BAN HIS ARSE!!

And he probably WOULD be banned. After all, he's just blabbing about, taking up server space with nonsense.

Yet, the only difference between his nonsense and your bull**** is that his nonsense is looked down upon, while your bull**** is socially accepted.

You laugh at this? What, those two beliefs are just as wrong and just as right. Cause there is NOT ONE indication or acceptable proof to believe any of those two... Their bull**** factor is the EXACT same.

This is mathematically cold REASONING.

Yet this one guy, sadly, is looked down upon and labelled a troll while you are applauded.

But I say: **** different treatments.

I say, either let okapi trolls swarm these forums AND allow religious guys to post about god

OR

ban ALL of them. It's the only consistent thing to do, yet noone realizes this, full of society's **** as they are (INCLUDING and ESPECIALLY me)

You don't wanna battle, you're shook, 'cause there ain't no such thing as halfway crooks.

Plus, with you being religious and all, don't EVER try to teach me on 'reasoning'. It's like running standard macintosh software on a windows computer. It's an INCOMPATIBILITY ERROR.

Same for the molecules that started evolution. Both points are illogical.

We can't prove God exists... we just have to believe by faith that he exists.

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"The quality of the levels you make is determined by the skill of the person not by the editor in which they use!"
-Michael Kyle

MAK Studios 3D

[This message has been edited by MysteriousSith (edited May 31, 2004).]

I don't believe in god because of Christian rap.

How on earth do you figure that? To be honest Mr. Civilized, the only troll I'm seeing is you. You call me a believer yoyo and say that my beliefs are "bull****" and then you are dense enough to say that the believers should be banned for being trolls. Mr. Civilized, you are a disgrace. But perhaps that's just the way that your filthy mother mother raised you.

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"Father to your hands I commend my spirirt. Father to your hands-Why have you forsaken me?"

You call your faith 'faith', right? Faith <-> Reasoning.

'Nuff said.



I'm not saying that. I'm saying for some wierd reason guys who constantly post irrational stuff that annoys people(okapi, ...) get banned, yet for SOME REASON, topics on god are ok.

WHY?

It's against EVERYTHING consistent in this world. You saying you are above the law? Wait... WHO is arrogant?

Unless you can convince me your bs is above the okapi guys bs somehow (which I'm kinda hoping, cuz stuff like this is funny)...



Not civilized, but frustratingly RATIONAL. I'm using the term *frustration*, pointing to your next few sentences.

LOL!



Why are you promoting the christian cause? You're no christian. You flame guys.

*Pulls out fire extinguisher*

Woah woah woah! Tolerance people, tolerance!

It's all fun and games till some idiot gets banned for typing quicker than his brain... let's try and keep things at least vaguely on track for a page or two more...

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

He actually did pratically just that for me. Though the way he revealed himself to me was in the form of angels singing. And yes, I've tried recreating the conditions and also have someone try to recreate the sounds from nearby sources, all to no avail. Though I think that rarely happends to people.

But I don't go to church any more...

(Obviously I still believe strongly in Him, though)



If God revealed Himself to you, you wound't need faith. I understand this now. I don't have faith that He exists. I know He exists without having faith. But you see, having faith is more important. To be able to take all indirect evidence and come to the acceptance that He exists, is faith. With faith you do not know 100% that He exists, yet you have the greatest love, respect, and admiration for Him. If you can have all of this while only haveing faith that He exists, imagine what you'll have for Him when you die and find out first hand that He does exist?



Actually, Creation and Evolution is the same thing. The problem is that most Christians, ect, lack the logical reasoning to make the connect between the two. They take the first chapter of Genisis literially and then conclude that Evelution could not possibly fit into that. But once you realize that the Bible was written for a far less scientifically advanced time-period, it makes perfect sense as to why it was worded in a very unscientific way. It was meant to give the basic idea of what happend. You will also note a great many other things that arn't scientifically explained, expecially in Revelations. The reason for this is so that we learn and grow on our own without 'outside' influences.



Actually, I think the key is that it's for those that HAVE heard of [a] God and yet have choosen not to believe. Those that have not heard of [a] God are excempt....which is only about 3%-5% of the world population and even a good portion of that percentage will hear about [a] God sometime before they die (especially with mass media).



You shouldn't fear anything...



Agreed to a point. And that point is that most 'religious' people belong to a church (or appropriate variation of religous building) that is corrupted by greed, among other things. Thus why I don't attend church...



Thus why I don't believe such non-sense. Pick a religion, try it out, if you don't like it, try another one. And any church that tells you that the Bible says you must go to church, leave. Same goes with any other religion. This is not to say that you shouldn't follow their customs. If it says you should face the holy land once or twice a day and pray, then that's what you should do. If that's not your thing, try something else.

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Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited May 31, 2004).]

Not sure if you got this, but Fear's one of the christian fellas from round here He's cool.

Oh, and I'm aware of the creation/evolution crossover, that wasn't my point - I'm also aware of big bang theory, to the point of most scientific Chrisitans accepting, "yeah, singularity - goes bang - matter/dark matter spreads... but where did the singularity come from?"

I don't know, but I'm confident enough in science not to think, "I can't explain it, I'll say God did it". My mind works in a different way.

Have your faith, be happy with it - all good by me (not that what I think should matter). It's just not for me I'm afraid

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

God to me seems like santa in many ways..

if your good and beleive santa(god)git some thing good, IE. gifts(moralty, kindess,.ect)

if your bad and/or don't beleive you git some thing bad ie. coal,or nothing at all (hell)

now a child that beleives in santa will ask for things like a pony,or something huge like that,(Heaven) but ofcourse will never git those things,

and if another child were to say santa didn't exist, they would git mad and try to prove/convince the other child that santa does, because they want to beleive and git they're gifts from santa

Now like all people the child will one day see that it's they're parnets putting the gifts under the tree

and they learn the truth, that the gifts they do git (moralty, kindess,.ect) comes from the people around them and that santa isn't real, and heck has an adult look back and think how silly they were to beleive..

now the only differnts I see between the two is that is that unlike santa, god doesn't such an obvious tell that he is fake,

and sence people still want they're pony, and not coal,

if some ones say there is no/is a differnt god(santa) they would git mad and try to prove/convince the other person that god does exist, because they want to beleive and git they're gifts from God

This is a good point. I agree that UltPotatoe asked completely the wrong question, and really this is so pointless that the only reason I'm posting is because of the next thing said:



That is totally classifying a group a people and accusing them all. If (for example) I heard about a football player killing someone, that doesn't mean that all football players of all teams came together to plan the murder of that person. That was one person's remark, it makes no sense to curse every Christian for it. (although, that's what I expect from the World anyway )



Obviously wouldn't understand.

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'And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.'

Revalation 5:13
Old King James

Grim Zombie, I think this Christmas you should ask Santa for a Dictionary.

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«»The Scratchware Manifesto
-¬thoughts from beyond observance

You can easily have faith and resoning at the same time. They don't cancel each other out in any way and to say so is rather stupid.

Quote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I'm not saying that.

</font>[/quote]
Hmm...

Quote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">you believer-yoyos are asking THE WRONG QUESTIONS.

</font>[/quote]

Quote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">...Unless you can convince me your bs...

</font>[/quote]
And yet you are not saying that?

Quote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> You saying you are above the law? Wait... WHO is arrogant?

</font>[/quote]
Who ever said christians were above the law?

Quote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Why are you promoting the christian cause? You're no christian. You flame guys.

</font>[/quote]
The Bible says that "open rebuke is better than hidden love." I'm giving you open rebuke. The filthy mother part was uncalled for, yes, but you people seem to believe that we are Christians because we were taught that as kids, so I figure you are the way you are because you were taught that.
PS. I sense nothing rational about you. Nothing at all.

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"Father to your hands I commend my spirirt. Father to your hands-Why have you forsaken me?"

*backs away slowly from UP and Tenshu* Keep this atheist out of this little fight

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The sooner you realize I'm right the better off you will be.

"but those people"=fixed

I asked a question. How can it be right or wrong? It's a question.

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"Father to your hands I commend my spirirt. Father to your hands-Why have you forsaken me?"

Conclusion to this thread: Everyone is just who he or she is, God or no God. If you like to think differently from eachother, why not? However, forcing your beliefs onto someone else is what i consider a wrong thing, and some people in this thread should consider that nobody asked them to do so. If someone does or doesn't believe in a God, and is happy with the way he or she is, why would you try to change that? All it leads to, is pointless arguments that'll never change anything, and useless insults, even towards people who aren't even involved in this discussion. I don't think God exists, and I don't think I ever will, yet I don't see that as a reason to attack people who believe something other than me. Every religion has its morals, I mean, even if you don't believe in God, there are some stories in the Bible that do have a sense of truth. Same goes for any other religion, Buddhism, spiritism, atheism, and hell, even Satanism has its points of truth.

All in all; don't insult others because of what they believe in, yet leave them for themselves, and let them find out what religion is theirs.

*Pats GothicX on the back*

Good job sir

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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Can you give me one example out of everyday life please.

quote dictionary: Faith - Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence



Never trust a guy who quotes out of context.

1- When someone calls me a quote unquote yoyo, I generally don't take it too seriously.

2- Yes, your relogion is bs. I tend to call everything outrageously out of ratio or acceptability "bs". I could've called it "demented crap" too. There: your religion is demented crap. Neonlight cheese is demented crap. The okapi thing is demented crap.



It also says: "if someone hits you on the cheek, offer him your other one".



And very good one too. Dude, OUCH!!!



That's EXACTLY why we can't communicate.

Little kids "sense" monsters hiding under their beds. They do that by millions, indepently of learned belief and of eachother. Something not to say about your demented crap.

Sense stuff? WTF? Do you live in the real world? Did your sense also spoil the movie when you figured out the matrix?

Here's a spoiler: you WILL DIE. This is rationally, empirically, scientifically shown BILLIONS of times.

I REBUKE YOU OPENLY (the bible comes in handy when you need it): godbelief shows the weakness of your mind and the inability to accept reality.

You can't even flame me for this. Freud knew it. Feuerbach knew it. And I SENSE it.

*slowly backs awa....no, runs away from tenshu*

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The sooner you realize I'm right the better off you will be.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "he let you believe," as if he's stopped you from believing now. How about the likelyhood of there not being a lot of things to cause illness? Lack of diseases is going to allow you a much longer life, yes? That question makes no sense. Do you insist that the universe pulled itself together?
What an utterly ridiculous idea. I love this argument. Apparently, God is supposed to favor you above the rest of humanity and show you that He exists.
And then, going to church on Sundays is supposed to make a difference? Pfft. As I've already pointed out, this is flawed logic. You can't disbelieve something only because there is a lack of evidence. I don't have a problem with someone not believing, but if this is the reason, it's not a very good one. At all. Science and religion contradict? Where? It's not like that. Heaven is God's home, and he doesn't want sin there. Let me use an analogy.
Let's say you want to invite a homeless man into your house and give him food, maybe even let him stay with you a while. Your first request is that he take a shower. You don't want the guy to stink up your house, right? He refuses. Even though you offered him a shower, he refuses. You offered him exactly what you required for him to enter into your home, and he refused. What can you do? Force him to clean himself? So the man leaves, and dies later that day.
That's pretty much how it is with God. Everyone is offered salvation, provided by God, to cleanse your sins, but it's up to each person to use it. Just like the homeless man, you're not sent anywhere; you're simply not allowed into heaven. Your spirit is not protected, so it's basically overtaken by Satan, and you're forced to dwell in his home.
I'm just telling you what the Bible teaches. I'm not trying to preach. It's interesting that I've never seen a religion get as radical and on fire for their God as we do in Christianity. Although, if you could provide contrary examples, I'd like to see them. Yet you'd accepted that molecules could always exist, but not God? Aren't you being a bit biased? Let's ban YOU. You come in an act like an *** , have no respect for other people's beliefs, act arrogant... I'd say you qualify as a troll. People do not get banned for their beliefs. Period. They get banned for doing completely pointless crap with nothing more than the intent to annoy people (among other things).
Bah. I'm not arguing with you. You think you're rational, when you are clearly not.
?!
Did you go to my church once?!

Science and Religion contradict on a few things, I can't be bothered to list all of them, but the mains ones are things like Creation.

My school was good enough to teach creation and evolution, proposing them both as theories - and it's undeniable that some people (not all I admit) find the two to be incompatible. Some scientists are looking for answers, (for example where did we come from?), but some preachers claim to already know the answer - "God made us". I tend to side with the scientists, because of a thirst for knowledge. Some rather pious men would rather stick their fingers in their collective ears and go "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" than hear what's been proposed.

I know that's a generalisation, and a poor one at that, but the point is there.

(I know it's ancient history, but I can't help but be reminded of the spanish inquisition vs the heliocentric theory of planetary motion.)



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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.

Or there's the end of the bible (revelations is it?) where the almost comedic end of the world is put forward, with people dying, being resurrected, the coming of the antichrist, monsters, devils, horsemen etc scorcing the planet, while a few are saved.

I would argue the end of the world would more likely be something like our species self destructing in a war, or if a peaceful time falls over earth, the end of humanity will be the sun swelling up and devouring the earth (If we haven't legged it elsewhere).

Stuff like that.



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If at first you don't succeed, lower your standards.