Go for, I'm curious, how much do guys suck?

Children are taught to mistrust all strangers because of this and surgeries are dangerous but we know all of the risks going into it. Men are the only ones actually able to rape a woman, ergo, women should also be aware of that danger.

:p jerkface, there's a reason I deleted that. There's NO way I'm getting into that here.

Wait wait wait. MEN put WOMEN in some role? Now you're blanketing BOTH sexes. That's sexist to anyone, not just men OR women.

Society roles go BOTH WAYS.

Women have been put in the role of the raped and victimized, completelly agreed. However, Men are put in the role as the victimizer/opressor. Consider my signature, for instance. A man born today is not only expected, but TOLD to pull his own weight. TOLD he's nothing but a pervert, and TOLD he is superior. To say that all women or most of women are *****es but it's ok because men put them there is to say that most or some men are pigs that rape women, but it's ok because society put them there.

STOP with the cause and end arguments. They're horrible fallacies, and all they do is ok victimization and vengance, and are not at all helpful. Pointing fingers never got any job done ever.

JediKirby

You're going to regret saying that when a disgruntled lunch lady pays a visit to you equipped with a broom handle.

Yes, strangers are potentially bad, and children cannot be trusted to use judgement in determining the character of the stranger, and people may be educated on the risk of surgeries, but the claims I've heard are not "some men out there might rape you, be careful ladies." It's flat out male bashing, talking about how sexually agressive men are, and how they're all a potential threat. That's like saying all women are potential hookers.

You say that like it's untrue.

[DISCLAIMER: I'M KIDDING]

And women are probably just as bad. Women are just passive, while men are not.

Roach - well then you're right, it shouldn't get to the point of man bashing, but all men are potential threats, just like all strangers are potential threats and all women can be psychotic - doesn't mean they all ARE, but the potential is there



beautifully put, but is that in reference to something I said? If so, what?

Right the main difference being that with most of these things, you can *usually* avoid being in situations where you're in danger of them being used, and the person using them doesn't have an excuse as to why it was ok for them to use it. "Officer, I was leaving my AIDS infected syrringes in the theatre seats because the garbage can was full.."

this thread makes me giggle

No, it was in response to the gender roles argument, one that my school tried to cram down our throats until I kicked them back in the throat withe fallacy logic. My health teacher really didn't like me. Especially because I was always right. You can't be wrong when you apply their own logic.

Any therapist that actually claims this needs their license revoked.

Because, you know, you're a sex therapist...I doubt it roach.





Women are naturally hornier than men, but they don't think of it as often as men do. Nor do they act on their urges as much as men do, hence, what one of my main points is.



One last thing Kirby... The quote you've got in your sig of Tupac's has nothing to do with what you were talking about up there really. It's got a completely different meaning than that.



I think they're in fear of it since it's probably one of hte only chances they have at getting lucky :p

oho! touche - but I never seem to delete posts fast enough, do I

The fact of the matter is that sex in itself has become so feared by our society that it's tantilizing to many perverts, a tool for many control freaks, and a taboo for many moraly-needy people.

The simple fact of the matter is that if sex wasn't considered a moral, half of this wouldn't be a problem.

Would there still be rapists? Of course.

Would there still be illigitimate children? Always.

There will always be the unpreventable situations. These are the situations that no amount of cock-stopping products, not wearing skirts in allies, and birth control can stop.

No, but prevention shouldn't be through items like these. Prevention should be, as I stated up above, the realization and acceptance of sex as what it is, not what it's moral implications are. As soon as we start moving away from the moral standards we hold up to each sex when it comes to sex, and start moving to exactly what sex is and implies, we'll prevent quite a few things from happening.

Rape is, almost always, about power. So very little of rape has to do with actually getting off. If you think it's cause guys act on their horniness more, you've apparently never had a rape victim close to you.

What I mean is, that sex isn't that big a deal at all. It isn't a right of passage. It isn't a decleration of your power over or commitment to another person. It isn't your deflowering and innocence. As soon as those power, fear, and moral standards are taken out of the equations, it won't be tantilizing to perverts anymore. It won't be a power status for a partner anymore. It won't be a sacrifice for your partner, either.

...sex has become WAY more acceptable to society in recent years. It's not exactly taboo.

YES LET'S KILL ALL BLACK PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY COULD STEAL OUR TV. AND WHILE WE'RE AT IT, LET'S STOP TALKING TO EACH OTHER BECAUSE WE ARE ALL CAPABLE OF KILLING EACH OTHER. ACTUALLY LET'S JUST STAY INSIDE FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES--THE EVIL RADIATION IN THE AIR COULD POTENTIALLY KILL US AT ANY MOMENT.

WAIT, WHY STOP THERE, BUILD A BOMB SHELTER, FOR SOLAR FLARES COULD DESTROY THIS PLANET AT ANY MOMENT.

blah, blah, babble babble bs

I love sugarless' logic.

Temp--I'm tired of you saying that massassians have no chances of getting any. It makes you seem so ****ing stupid, especially because you seem to take all this much more seriously than any of us if you truly think that.

God, I feel sick to my stomach. I didn't know there was actually someone stupid enough to use the "THERE IS ALWAYS A POTENTIAL..." argument. YES, we know there is a potential, we realize this, but there's a potential for everything to happen--at some point you have to draw the line in where you prepare for that event's potentiality of happening (I think I just raped the English language)

And It's obvious you aren't either. Let's look at facts. The labido of both sexes is fueled by testosterone. 99.9% of the hormonal volume produced by women's gonads are estrogen, and progesterone. The other .1% is testosterone. Let's look at the male gonads. What's this? 99.9% of the hormonal volume produced by the male gonads is testosterone?! You really want to believe that women are naturally hornier than men, you need to take a few physiology courses there buddy. That said, if men seriously thought of sex every 5 - 10 seconds, we would get nothing done. I want you to show me one reputable source that backs up that ridiculous claim.

I wasn't talking about potential in relation to this anti-rape device, Yoshi, I was talking specifically to Roach about it in response to people knowing the dangers. There's a reason you lock your doors when you leave the house.

Roach is--sex--right I--sex--don't think men--sex--

Not at ALL. Reread my post, as I updated it, and see if you understand why we've become more sheltered, in a way, with sex. Post if you still do, as I have an argument.

JediKirby

I have heard lots of people say it. It's not true. Do you? Do I? No. You would never accomplish a single task in your life if you did. Does anyone here, any guy, REALLY think about sex every 5 to ten seconds? Even every 30? Even every 5 minutes? No. Hey, if you're around a lot of attractive members of the opposite sex you may be aroused or whatever, but nothing like what is implied by the common 5-10 seconds BS.

Women do joke like that, perhaps not in such blunt terms... and not as many do, proportionally, as do guys, but the point stands. It's just a stupid primitive male bonding type of thing, sure, but it doesn't hurt anyone or anything. It's just the boys being coarse.

I don't, as I'm sure most don't, rely on that as a source of release of tension... That was poor wording on my part. It's just something guys do...

Men do rape women much more frequently than women rape men, and, as I've stated, rapists are largely scum. This is a label for genuine rapists, not the run-of-the-mill statutory rapist whose girlfriend was 17 or whatever.

My arguments pertain more to the overall mistreatment of each sex by the other, not to actual rape... I hate rape. It sucks.

nope, you're very right, Kriby, about rape being about power.

and what I'm saying is that by moralizing sex, we've put the power into rape.

now that I disagree with. It's not about morality, it's about power over a person, and reducing them to the point where they're completely helpless

While I don't totally agree w/ kIRBY, the morality behind sex is what makes rape degrading, combined with the helplessness.

Yeah, and it's not at all physical. It's all mental. The idea is that a rapist preys on the weak willed. Not the physically weak, as you'd think. I've been told statistics by this before, but admittedly I can't exactly back that up.

If sex weren't the image of innocence it currently is, the phsychological factor would be out the window. If I couldn't rape a girl to take her innocence, rob her of her naturalness... there'd be no phychological gain. I'd just be getting some physical action.

Consider if a strong willed girl were raped. She's entirelly weak. She pushes back, yells, and is overall unsubmissive. Even if he ends up taking power over her, she doesn't show any sign of being robbed, or doesn't take the role of the victim. She just takes it, and calls him a ****er. The man has lost his power over her psych.

I wholly believe that if we didn't make sex such a big deal, that rape would be far less of an issue as it wouldn't be a powerful act, it'd just be a disgusting one.

JediKirby

As others have noted, this device has immense potential for misuse. I'm okay with it being sold, but women using it should bear full responsibility for any harm done to innocent men.

yes but I think you're misunderstanding. It's not because they're robbed of innocence, because even sexually active women would be very affected by rape - and it isn't anything about weak willed people. I'll agree that it's a psychological thing, but that's because it's slamming in a woman's face just how powerless and helpless they are. That feeling leads into desperation. That's why rape is so affecting, not because it's a loss of innocence so much. And of course there's also the fact that as long as religion plays any kind of role in society, sex will never be something casual and "no big deal" to everyone.

[edit] I should learn to proofread. that and I completely agree with Michael MacFarlane just above me

Popular myth. There's no psychological evidence to support such claims.

[QUOTE=Michael MacFarlane]Popular myth. There's no psychological evidence to support such claims.[/QUOTE]
No, but see, like you're not a sex therapist man...

[to sugarless] Understandable, but I'm just trying to stress the idea of starting at the beginning, at the root of our cultural conditioning. Instead of conditioning sex as BAD or having sex as an insecure thing, we should understand sex and put less potential power into sex. If, as a little boy, I was told that sex is something adults may or may not do , but that it can get you sick like sharing, and it can cause accidents if you aren't careful, I think I would have a much better perspective on sex itself [I think I already do, but I mean any guy in general]. Instead, we get told "Sex is love. Sex is dangerous. Sex is special. Sex is important. Sex is bad." That's some confusing, abstract stuff for a kid growing up. Imagine what ideas it gives boys vs girls.

JediKirby

hmm, I see where you're coming from there

Furthermore, I'd like to share a metephore I made in the chat.

The reason we don't have cars that run 1000 volts of electricity through the handle when you lock it is apparent to anyone with a brain.

Essentially, to me, those of you in support of this cock-snatcher device are saying that despite me being able to accidently shock myself to death. My son playing a joke on his mother and killing her with the locked handle. Despite a little kid running through the parkinglot running his hands across the locks died from my 1000 volts. Despite all of the possible misuses of the device, that catching a number of robbers is worth it?

I don't.

And there's where I'm going to have to disagree with your analogy

and since I'm only prolonging the argument and frustrating myself, I promise this is where I bow out and start my theory homework

I'm going to have to say that analogy fails unless the car goes out and rubs its charged handles against people. Little kids can't play jokes or innocently run their hands across a woman's armed vagina.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Your argument and credibility ended at that point.

What's worst than feminists, is male feminists. God I'm glad you're not a part of my country.[/QUOTE]

what is worse than a feminist, a male chauvenist. seriously, that kind of talk could be considered sexist. Why should a person not be allowed to stand up for the rights of another group of people. Saying that men shouldnt be feminists is the same as saying that whites shouldn't be civil rights activists.

Seems like you can't extend a conversation over 1 page without sucking so much. Geez.

also, about those AIDS needles on theater chairs. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/pinprick.asp

we need to have snoopes be a required reading before anyone can join, and also, have a removal of posting privlages of everyone with a requirement that they read snoopes in order to get them back, or mabey just ask everyone kindly to read the site.