You got it

Dragged that back up from the depths of 1999!

/history dances

No, I do not appose Christianity.

Martyn, what you speak of, is called a trinity, and I know someplace in the bible it says god is not a trinity.

The Israelites were secretive about the name of their God, and that they deliberately altered the name of Jehovah in the holy scripture in order to conceal his full and correct name. Jehovah comes from the 4 letters of YHWH.

In the King James Version of the Bible you can still see his name used in a few places, and according to bible history, the name of Jehovah appeared more than 7000 times in the bible, before it was replaced. Jesus is the son of god, and it will take me a while find where is said that again, but I know that this is true, for Jesus himself said that.

There are quite a few theories concerning how YHWH became JHVH. In fact there is doubt as to how YHWH was pronounced in Moses' time. Ancient Hebrew had no written vowels, or superscript/subscript vowel markings, it was just understood by the pre-captivity Hebrew what the sound of each of the four written consonants should be.

The holy spirit is the active power or force of god, he controls it, and everything he does is because of this. How ever, he does everything through Jesus, who was his first creation, thus his son.

I could go on and on for a long time, but I need to deal with some things right, now so I'll be on later.

The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, and through the Father and Son He is worshipped and glorified, and has spoken through the prophets. <-- The Holy Spirit does not "control" God, because the Holy Spirit *is* God, as is the Father and the Son.

To my knowledge, the word "Trinity" is not used in the Bible at all.

I don't understand why any of you are responding to this thread. SF_GoldG_01 is uneducated and willfully ignorant. He's not worth any of your time or effort.

Point taken.

<-- wanders off.

Yeah, if you'd read up you'd've noticed I remembered the name of the Trininty.

Also, was Jehova not spelt with an 'I'?

You may also want to check on your Bible versions because there are arseloads of them, all with differing bits due to copying and translation errors, not to mention the subjectivity of the man with the pen - no single Bible is really 'correct'.

If the Bible says God is not a Trinity, why does every single Christian believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?

True say.

<-- follows Lee

Yes, in Latin.



I think you have it mixed up. If you don't believe in the trinity, you still believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, just that they are not THE SAME.

There are verses in the bible that say that they are all one, and that Christ is God. In fact it says Christ is God in a number of places, I believe.\

Not all Christians believe in the trinity. Of course, to some people, people who don't believe in the trinity are not Christians.

It's rather muddled.

Ah, fair enough - I was not aware of that.

Neither was I - and I was Protestant for years, and Catholic for years since..

Like I said I'm agnostic (I haven't enough fervent belief in something, but neither do I believe firmly that there is *nothing*), but funnily enough I went to my first Catholic Mass this Christmas with Izzy and her family - quite eye opening and VERY latin (They obviously like to punish those that only go at Christmas with some HEAVY mass).

It was interesting to see all the things I learned about doing History - incence (bloody strong too) and all that Latin! Apparently they save all that for special occasions these days and stick mainly to the vernacular.

I'd like to go to a Latin Mass sometime - our Christmas Mass was in English (as usual)..

Glad you went, though - perhaps you'll go again sometime?

Rawr! I was going to take a nap... now I have to go find the bloody thing where it said god is not a trinity... this will take a while....

Not likely if it's ever that latin full again! Nah, to be honest, if I did get faith I'd be keeping it to myself - that church was more like a social-climbers networking point: everyone looking to better each other. It's funny how un-christian some of them can be looking back.

Actually what was worse was that the whole lot took about 90 mins or so, but the actual sermon took about 4 minutes, was inaudible for the most part, and what I could here was not in the least bit inspiring - the whole thing reall felt (unfortunately) like a big waste of time.

(Not that I'm saying that's how it always is, this was my experience that day)

I was more interested in watching the whole spectacle unfold - it was (admittedly) fascinating. I spent most of the time imagining what it would be like to be in 1550, really filling yourself up on the mysticism (that the protestants so wanted to be rid of).

I find religion fascinating, from an obvective point of view.

No one cares, because you don't bother to hold an argument, you just pull evidence from some random site, call it fact, and when everyone blows your evidence away with massive evidence to the contrary, you ignore them. (Like, I dunno, the Squirrel thread you seem to be avoiding oh so well? If I am wrong, reply to the counts held against you there)

Don't bother looking up the evidence. Cause I know I won't, and I'm sure no one else, is gonna bother fighting with you anymore, since you don't listen to anyone but yourself.

See, I didn't read this retarded thread because SF_GoldG_01 made it, so I'm going to throw this out there because it'll probably explain his behavior to a lot of you:

It's their way of winning over converts. As we all know, if you're a Jehovah's Witness or a Mormon, you can't get into Heaven without converting a whole bunch of people who are actually Christians. They hope we'll join their lousy religion and write lots of huge checks and sell all of our furniture to pay for e-meter readings if they tell us how we worship THREE gods (not just one!) and the Virgin Mary and our heretical ancestor worship of the saints.

Anything more than a peripheral analysis of catholic dogma demonstrates this to be false, but we can't expect those poor little guys to understand everything about the religions they're lambasting. After all - brainwashing takes a lot of effort! Think of all of the hours they'd have to spend to get their slaves to understand Theology!

I think this entire thread was only posted because cult-boy here thinks I'm a Catholic (based on remarks I made in the other thread, before he ran to his Charismatic Leader with tears in his eyes). I'm not a Catholic but that doesn't keep me from knowing everything he said in this thread is pure hogwash.

And there's Jon'C, living up to his title again..

Ok, this trinity subject is alot more touchy and somewhat complex:

The doctrine of the "Holy Trinity" considered by many to be essential to one's very salvation, is not found in Christianity until at least three hundred years after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The concept of a triune godhead comes from paganism.

There are numerous scriptures that show Jesus to be just who he said he was, the SON of God, there are a handful of New Testament scriptures that might, IF taken out of context, cause one to conclude that Jesus is himself God.

Now... that being said... if Jesus, God, and the Holyspirit were one or were a trinity... then how did God create Jesus, when the scriptures clearly say that Jesus was created by god.

Also, John 3:16 in "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten SON."

Sincerley I don't have time to explain the whole thing, I have something to attend to, but you might find this interesting, while some of it may be false, it has alot of truth in it:
http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/adrianbiblestudents/trinityfalsedoctrine.html

Yeah go take that nap, don't neglect your duties.

Speaking of ignorance, you know nothing of the witnesses, you don't have to go off and bring people to our "lousy" religion to go into heaven, because frankly, only 144 000 will go to heaven with Jesus, how ever, many more people will be saved, and whats more, we don't worship the virgin of Mary in any way, she was woman, and woman are not to be worship, for in genesis, they come from man.

Golly, that was a short nap.

Hey SF_GoldG_01, I want to convert a bunch of people to my non-denominational Abramic/Secular Humanism hybrid. Can you give me a list of addresses of every Jehovah's Witness? It's only fair, right?

Hahaha, is the Watchtower Society still claiming your membership numbers are under 144,000? If Jehovah's Witnesses are right you're in for a big surprise come rapture buddy.


Edit: I'm not ignorant of your cult, I'm just intolerant. There's a difference.
Back up your posts in the other thread dingus.

And you obviously know nothing of Catholicism, except we don't go spouting incorrect "knowledge" on random message forums.

lol - that's gotta suck to be number 144,001, eh? :p

To conclude: There are many places in the scriptures where they say there is a difference between God and his son, such as John 3:16, so how could they be the same? The trinity makes no sense what so ever, its in my own opinion, the most retarded doctrine ever to be put on paper and should be reasoned with the scriptures, not with ones own assumptions. Google it, you'll find that many bible quotes would show that no such relation exists... whats more, read the whole bible, and you'll get no indication or hint to believing in the trinity... all trinity concepts come from pegan religious, such as hinduism, and the pagan idea for God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit come from Babylon. These are truths, and if you study history, the bible, and all documents, you will find out the truth, instead of being spoonfead by your priest or superior.

This thread is dumb.

The matter of the Trinity is a choice of faith, just like all the questions that can't be answered about any religion. Just accept it.

144,001? They claim their membership is still under 144,000 because that's the number of people the Bible claims will get into heaven (even though it was meant to be a number 'beyond reckoning').
It's a dumb and joyless attempt at literal analysis. But sure, go ahead, believe whatever you want.

It's just pathetic when the Watchtower Society lies to all of the Jehovah's Witnesses out there. Their cult is shockingly active in third-world countries: In fact, according to a recent issue of The Watchtower there were over 16 million people in attendance for the memorial of Christ's death. So even if they're right, less than 1% of them will get into heaven (and, if I had anything to say about it, even if the Watchtower Society is wrong! :D)

They lie because, no matter what, eternal damnation is guaranteed if you join them now.

Wow, Indiana Jones is SO the only reason anybody knows that.

Jon'C if you could even back up half the crap and stuff you do in the bible...
seriously, catholics priests, bishops, popes and whatever are self appointed fools who try to bend the scriptures to their own advantage and take out what is clearly agaisnt them. As I proved in what Exodus 20:4-5 says, Catholics show no sign of that, as they have idols all around their churches, crosses, statues, paintings... all uncalled for, all not in coordance with the bible. Lord_Grismath made an incredible post, which I must send him my compliments.

words words words

Hey, pay attention to the other thread, you coward.

What you just described is not Catholocism. It's YOUR OWN FAITH. YOU are the one being taken advantage of and being brainwashed. You looked up a few Bibles scriptures and said, "omg this makes no sense. rediculous. you are all being mislead. you are owned my argument wins." Back the **** down, man. And this is coming from an avid ATHIEST, raised Catholic for a good 16 years. You haven't a clue as to what you're talking about.

Self appointed? Idols in churches? Your ignorance is astounding, and hardly merits the respect of a reply.

However, I must make one comment. You say that Catholics remove what is in the Bible that they do not like -- then tell me...why do we have several more books in our Bible than other churches? Someone removed several books - and it wasn't Catholics.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Spoon-fed by my "priest or superior", is it? Hey - I'm not the one in a cult here buddy, and I don't need a "priest or superior [or charismatic leader]" to tell me what to believe.

Have you actually read the Bible, or did you just sit in on your cult-mandated "Bible study" sessions and let them tell you what to believe?
It's okay. They seem like nice* people** until you disagree with them, so it's really hard to keep your own personal beliefs when you're being actively brainwashed. Poor little guy.

* Not actually nice.
** Not actually people.

POT. KETTLE. BLACK.

Seriously, that's every religion that has ever existed. This is not exclusive to the Catholic Church. You can shut up now.

Thats a mistranslation of what ever you're reading, the 144 000 that will get into heaven are selected by Jehovah by his own means and given to Jesus as a bride class to be priests and kings. The watchtower has nothing to do with this, and the only people lying are the catholics priests and stuff who think they have the right to say whos a saint or whos not a saint when they themselves are imperfect men, with imperfect judgement.

Is that a technical term?

How does it feel to be going to hell, SF_GoldG_01? I wouldn't know because according to my "priest or superior [or charismatic leader]" I'm going to heaven, so I'd like to hear it from someone who is damning himself to hell every day of his life. Please tell me.


Oh yeah, and respond to the other thread, coward.

Any religion that limits the number of people who can be offered eternal salvation in bunk in my opinion.

And not all the people who are at the memorial attendance are witnesses. I don't know what you ran into Jon'C but a true witness does not brainwash.
I don't know any where where in the bible god commanded people to make crosses and stuff put it in your churches.
144 000 a, number to be reckoned with, for the power that these 144 000 will possess is beyond the imagination of any man. Alas you can spout words, and as you said... theCatholic church added things to the bible, yet who are they to add to it?