Just because she claims being wiccan doesn't mean she's goth by any means.

Also, about the wicca debate: Wicca's fine as long as you don't take it too seriously, just like, say, satanism. What I know of wicca has nothing to do with 'spells', 'charms' and 'amulets'. It simply has to do with different forms of psychology.

SAJN... a 50 year old religion who's main fanbase is under the age of 17 is not... a... religion. You said it exsisted in many forms before, and yes, you're right. It's called motherloving Paganism. As Rob so simply put it, it's Neo-Paganism, and a ****ty variant thereof.

And I'm very well going to "make fun of a religion" because it's an absolute joke. Wicca is, as I said, a HAPLASH OF REAL RELIGIONS. Wicca is whatever you want it to be, because there are no texts or moral standards.

If you honestly want me to get all the research done on it, I will. I really don't want to waste my time, but if you honestly can't accept the HISTORICAL accuracy of my claims, then I will show you lots and lots and lots of support. We'll make a different thread, even. Just PM me and we'll do it. Let's keep the Wicca debate out of this thread until then, k?

On a side note, you need to stop pretending that there are moral police. People aren't always going to like the bat-****ing-crazy ideals and morals people have. I think Wicca is a goddamn comedy routine, and guess what? I don't feel morally obliged to say otherwise.

JediKirby

Haha, wow, I thought SAJN was stupid, but at least sane. Jesus this just makes my day.

maybe the MBS should be called in? just a thought...

[QUOTE=Victor Van Dort]That's because your pathetic goal in life is to troll internet forums and spend every moment of your life trying to insult other people and things that other people believe in. Thus, I don't give a crap what you say, and I'm not going to spend my time trying to convince you otherwise.

Kirby, maybe you need to do A LOT MORE RESEARCH. Have you ever met a REAL wiccan? Have you ever taken the time to read a book that ISN'T by Silver Ravenwolf? I doubt it. Because if you have, you wouldn't be such a goofball when it comes to wicca. Second of all, it isn't cool to go around and insult another religion, just because you don't like it, or because you are too ignorant to understand it. Wicca has a very solid religion, with traditions, history, etc... It doesn't matter that wicca was publicised in 1954, it's been around in various forums way before then. Heck, if you want to get technical, it's only been a religion since it was legally recognised in 1985! ALL religions were started by someone, somewhere, with something in mind. It's a religion that MANY people actually believe in, and your being a complete wanker to those that do.[/QUOTE]

YOU'RE FUNNY.

But you're wrong.

And I don't care if I'm being a "wanker."

Because wicca, if you would read into it to any degree, is stupid.

PS, I used to have a couple of Gardener's books.

Wicca DOES NOT have a solid base of traditions, because it is an ECCLECTIC religion. Basically meaning, MAKE IT UP AS YOU GO.

And yeah, I know tons of wiccans, REAL ones, we've had this discussion like 246246262761252 times. They agreed to admit the basis of their religion is stupid.

Wicca was invented by some loon who decided to mash a bunch of crap from other cultures into one ball of stupid. The end.

Oh boy somehow a religious debate got started. Maybe I shouldn't mentioned that wicca part...

[QUOTE=Numenor King]Yah Wicca is crap but this biggest question in all of this is, Cloud have you talked to your roomate about all of your concerns, if so what was his response.[/QUOTE]

He is quite adamant in believing that her story is true. However, last night I believe I was able to get him to think about the situation at least. Somehow the magic word of "worry" (I told him that I was worried about the huge risk he was making) got him to think about it more deeply. Guess it's due to the fact that I never seem concerned about anyone until now that surprised him.

However for the most part, he still believes every ounce of her words. He thinks he will get away with removing her from her home. Furthermore when I pose him the question of what will happen if he will be apprehended, he tells that he will tell the jury Carolyn's story and they will let him go because it was done for a noble cause.


According to him, her mother is an ex-cop and her father is a cop. Furthermore, her younger brother and her sister (no idea what her age is) will dismiss any idea of her being abused...according to my roommate.


I'll profess, I rather have him then people like my first roommate. My first roommate was very much the typical college kid. Gets drunk, stank of smoke, and made quite alot of nose when he comes back in the room late at night. Not to mention he stupidly let the keys out, which resulted in this random girl being able to enter the room late at night and propose to me "I can take my clothes off for you." I told her to leave and she said "Oh come on!" and mumbled something.
I definitely do not want to got through all of this again.

Was the girl hot?

Or are you just a prude?

[QUOTE=Victor Van Dort]
Christianity is a silly religion. It's a haplash of multiple ancient religions crammed into one book of contradictions and lies. There are several Hebrewistic [is that a word?] that have far more validity and realism, and abide by the laws of science... oh, and their CENTURIES old. Christianity itself is a joke, but don't let that fool you into thinking Christians, themselves, are whacked out. Many of their, however contradictory and simplistic, ideologies are rather sensible.

Wow, being ignorant is fun! Quick, someone else spout crap about something they have no idea about![/QUOTE]

Speaking of ignorance, I didn't really see one informed logical argument. I saw some uninformed claims that you can't support, and a bunch of flaming. And here you are claiming to objective. Don't treat us like nice, misguided simpletons when your own philosophy leaves so much to be desired. And if you're up to it, I will engage in a logical debate over it with you.

[QUOTE=Victor Van Dort]Wow, being ignorant is fun! Quick, someone else spout crap about something they have no idea about![/QUOTE]
Don't worry, kids. I've got this one.

System of a Down is a ****ty band.

That WAS fun!

Now all I need is to hear that SAJN converted to Wicca and my day/week/month/year? will really be made.

... My 'argument' if you noticed, is making fun of Kirby's post by being almost the same paragraph with a few words plugged in. Which is why I said 'It's fun to be ignorant!' because I was acting ignorant by posting like Kirby did.



Fanbase? People under the age of 17? Are you slow? All of those teenages who call themselves Wiccan, do it for attention, and most of them know nothing about wicca at all! The majority of wiccans, who practice the wiccan religion, and know what the hell they are talking about are older people. I know wiccans who have kids, and their kids are wiccan etc... MOST real wiccans are NOT teenagers.



Are you seriously trying to pull that? How can you call a religion a joke? By your standards ANY religion is a haplash of 'real' religions. Let's say we were alive in the year 600 BCE (Not an official date of anything). Lets just say that about 50 years before then Buddhism started to get some followers. Here is you, a Christian, and you hear about this Buddhism thing. You'd start telling me it was crap. Why? It hasn't been around nearly as long as Christianity has been. It's a haplash of blah blah blah blah, buddah is fake! The Christian religion is intertwined with Judaism! Does it make it a HAPLASH of real religions?



There are tons of text and moral standards. You have GOT to be kidding me! It has many religious 'rules' just like any other religion. It has prayers and rituals and holidays and everything. Seriously, you keep telling me how much you know about wicca, when you don't know jack. I KNOW real wiccans, I have read many many books. There are wiccan covens, weddings, etc... If you want to know about moral standards or ethics, read the wiccan rede or perhaps you have heard of the rule of three. They aren't really 'official writing of the wiccan religion' but it's something. Just because wicca doesn't have a bible type book doesn't mean wiccans can just make up what they want and do whatever they want.



Wow, you really are a moron. You come in here, knowing NOTHING about ANYTHING anyone is talking about and you just toss an insult out there. WOW. Seriously, do you stay up at night and think of how you are going to troll next? I'm sorry Yoshi, you need your attention because you forgot your ADD pills today! Or do you want to actually CONTRIBUTE something to the forums once and a while? Was your post going to be followed by a post on why YOU think Wicca is/isn't a joke? No? Wow, then shut up.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Now all I need is to hear that SAJN converted to Wicca and my day/week/month/year? will really be made.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to go with SAJN here. Shut up.

If she was hot, then he'd be a prude, otherwise I can't see myself acting differently ;).

But if she was hot I'd be sorely tempted.

Kids, kids. No need to get angry.

wicca = agree to disargree...

I seen better though I guess you could kind of call me a prude.

wicca is crap. i had a best friend a few years ago turn to it during highschool as a freshmen for him. he was tellin me about it and it is just bullsh*t made by stupid teens who dont like their parents. now my friend turned from wicca to nothing.

prude

Umm, it sounds like he was just another teen looking for attention. Because if your opinion of wicca is that it was made by teens who don't like their parents, then your friend most likley didn't know what he was talking about.

Wicca is 10x cooler than Kirby, face it.

Wicca and the other "heathen" religions were the base religions here in europe before Rome came.

A lot of Christian holidays are based on WIccan ones.


Now lets all get naked and spam this thead into the ground


FLAMES!!!

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

Wicca came before...Rome?

You're saying you actually prefer the cell phone exorcist/possible sexual predator to your old roommate?

Okay.... old roomate: girls came into your room and offered to take off their clothes.

new roomate: tells you his emo story that you really don't want to hear, which he probably made up, is annoying, a pedophile, and conman.

What is wrong with you? :p

Aaron... That's not Wicca. The word "Wicca" wasn't around 60 years ago. Wicca is LITERALLY, as Rob so simply stated, yet no one's disproved: ECLECTIC! You can make it whatever the **** you want to be! SAJN, all those "Texts?" They're written by people MAKING A DIME OR TWO. You can read 300 different Wiccan texts and get COMPLETELLY DIFFERENT RELIGIONS! Know why? Because they're all REWRITTEN VERSIONS OF OLDER TEXTS WITH FAR MORE BEHIND THEM.

What do I mean by that? Nothing significant happened within the past 50 years for wicca to come about. Nothing. No profits, no anomalies, no unexplainable occurances. No one needed to explain anything. The most unexplainable thing? "Why do my parents treat me like crap!?" A group of starving angsters [formerly goth kids, now looking for a more moral way to defy their parents] got ahold of a specific school of a Pagan ritualistic religion. They didn't like the whole "sacrifice this animal or that animal" and "Cut your fingers and bleed" parts of the very basic and simplistic religion that described unexplainable occurances of it's time [Like a gigantic war, or a tidle wave. All of these things are consistant throughout several religions. We know of several anomalies... say a great rainstorm, that is apparent in ALL religious texts. They all speak of a long long rain season. THIS si a religion] so instead of doing those parts of the religion, they MADE THEIR OWN.

I'm willing to support my above statement with HISTORICAL, not opinionated or people's ideas, but HISTORICALLY ACCURATE TIMELINES of wiccan culture. I will make a new thread for this, but it's entirelly all too much research for my 3 day weekend. but if you honestly need me to explain this to you so you'll stop defending a half-*** joke of a religion, than I'll do it.

JediKirby

Kirby, I honestly feel bad for you. You are so uninformed it is making me feel a bit sick. Just the fact that you can be that blind and ignorant makes me feel queezy. I'm not going to argue with you anymore, because even if I smashed the FACTS into your brain, you would still keep on arguing with me about how wicca is CRAP. It's offensive, rude, and just plain being a jerk that you have no respect what-so-freaking-ever for other people's religious thought and beliefs.

BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM UP! Holy crap SAJN. Do not call me ignorant when I've made several VERY key points that you're completelly ignoring.

If someone came up to you and said "I'm a Jesian." and then described a religion where they followed a guy named Jesus who believed all black people should be royalty, and that big thumbs means you're going to heaven, you'd be like

"WTF?"

And then they'd say, oh yeah, I read this book about it. My friend is a Jesian too, he read a different book though, and it says big thumbs mean you go to hell.

"Did you get anything from christianity?"

Well, the book they read MENTIONED the bible, but that's about it.

That is, essentially, what you're saying is a valid religion. It REALLY isn't. Writing a book doesn't validate rehashing of old ideas. It validates as wanting to make money off of young people. If you say there's such things as REAL wiccans, than those must be the ones that read the RIGHT wiccan book.

Sofar I've responded to all your 'key points' with my 'key points' and we've been going back and forth and going nowhere.



Out of all the books and even most of the websites I have read, I haven't read anything that strays away from the main points of Wicca. They ALL mention the same god and godess, the same holidays, the same rituals, the same rules, the same do's and do not's, etc... The only differences I have seen were in ways to pray. Everyone has their own way to pray in ANY religion. There are various alter set ups, and prayers. Other than that, the wiccan symbols, and events, etc... NEVER change. You my friend are uninformed. Or maybe you've been reading too many myspace blogs, and you are confusing them with books of fact?

Are you KIDDING me? The internet is the WORST place to look up religious things. How often do you think it's DIRECTLY COPIED AND PASTED from the other page? No, stop talking.

Look up Paganism. Compair it to your strongest Wiccan hooplah. Whitness the complete ripoff, and notice all of the sudden "benifits" that pop up. And also notice how Paganism provides strong documentation of concurrent events in history. Whitness how wicca RAPES the ones in Paganism. Go, go and see my hypocritical little friend.

Here is a site I just found. It is not run by 15 year old goths, but by actual wiccans. Educate yourself.

The Wiccan Church of Canada

[QUOTE=Victor Van Dort]Sofar I've responded to all your 'key points' with my 'key points' and we've been going back and forth and going nowhere.



Out of all the books and even most of the websites I have read, I haven't read anything that strays away from the main points of Wicca. They ALL mention the same god and godess, the same holidays, the same rituals, the same rules, the same do's and do not's, etc... The only differences I have seen were in ways to pray. Everyone has their own way to pray in ANY religion. There are various alter set ups, and prayers. Other than that, the wiccan symbols, and events, etc... NEVER change. You my friend are uninformed. Or maybe you've been reading too many myspace blogs, and you are confusing them with books of fact?[/QUOTE]
Prove it. All you're doing is giving us hearsay. Give us texts, and the main point of texts. Seriously, saying "I READ ABOUT THIS GOD AND GODDESS" without naming them, the rituals--ANYTHING. Hell, I'm not even in this argument and I'M frustrated that you don't want to fess up to anything.

So prove it.

Haha, and that link proves my point EXACTLY.

It just said EXACTLY what Rob and I said, several times. The difference?

You think that's a respectable, realistic religion.

We, on the other hand, see it as a box with whatever makes you happy tossed in.

We can't respect OMG HAPPY WORLD LALALA religions, and you, obviously, can.

So yes, I AM being a jerk, if you look at it that way. Anyone from the outside of this debate would say that I'm pointing out what is silly to me, and you're defending it with the argument that, because it's someone's religion, that it's respectable. THAT'S ludicrus.

Even the site you LINKED TO says it's just a jumbling of paganistic religions, and didn't specify any gods/goddesses/rituals/anything.

FESS UP TO ANYTHING?! Yoshi, shut your freaking trap!

You want to know the names of the Goddess and the God? Okay, here they are: Goddess and God, you freaking hippy! That's like asking a Christian what Gods name is! It's GOD! You want to know about the rituals?



Weeee! Want some more text? Look at the link I posted RIGHT ABOVE YOUR POST.

Didja read my post SAJN? It's very clear that I just showed you why I'm not the ignorant idiot you claimed me to be. As Dj Yoshi pointed out [and you cleanly ignored and only addressed his second point], it even says, almost word for word, what Rob and I said.

Christianity branched off from Judaism, Samaritanism, and Islam. Does that make is a HAPLASH of other religions?!

... SAJN, you said that I've done NO research. The site clearly, very clearly, says that I most certainly DO know what I'm talking about.

Oh, and branching is totally different than what wicca is. Branching is when you interpret ideas differently. Wicca, as the site STATES, is a cookpot of several pagan rituals, religions, and ideals.

Why are you NOT readin this point? You're hitting every point but the one where I'm VERY CLEARLY correct. Please, answer me or never post again on the subject.

Now with just a BIT of editing!



Wow, amazing. Haplash alert! The wiccan religion also stems from various religions, but it contains it's own rituals and beliefs as well.

[QUOTE=Victor Van Dort]Christianity branched off from Judaism, Samaritanism, and Islam. Does that make is a HAPLASH of other religions?![/QUOTE]
So, despite the fact that Islam was created AFTER Judaism and Christianity...it's based off of it?

Christianity is based off of Judaism--it even uses the same texts for the most part. It's like taking a radically different view of the same religion. Bad analogy.

Oh yeah--telling me to "shut my freaking trap" honestly is a horrible debate tactic and throws any credibility you DID have out of the window.

Honestly, if you're going to try and get a point across don't get so pissy--stay calm and explain your points. And why, if the names are God and Goddess does it mention multiple ones?

...

[QUOTE=Victor Van Dort]Christianity branched off from . . . . Islam. [/QUOTE]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhAHA!!!!

Sorry, but that's not the case at all. Islam didn't come about until about 700 AD. There's a reason they recognize Jesus as a Prophet of God.