Wii.

Really, just because it's different then my PC. Every game on the game will provide a way of controlling unlike anything on my PC. PS3 and 360? Not so much. Sure PS3 and 360 have their exclusives (MGS 4, Halo 3) but because of the control scheme, every game for the Wii is completely different then what my PC can do.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]IBM created a compiler that does the multithreading for the Cell processor. The 360 still has to be manually multithreaded, and the WII...well it's obvious why that one won't be so easy to dev for (at least for games that make extensive use of the WIImote).[/QUOTE]
fixed

Not go'n do et.

The wii isn't going to be hard to develop for.

I didn't think so at first. Then I read some of the hands on demos of games (namely Red Steel) and realized there's a lot more problems creating something for the motion sensor than I first thought.

I meant in a general sense.

The motion sensors can't be that hard to deal with either, it's just something new for everyone to deal with. On the level that they're operating at on the wii.

Compare some of the first playstation games to games that came out for it towards the end of it's "life."

Yeah...you obviously didn't read any of the hands on. Trust me, as is, the PS3 stands to be the easiest console to develop for, despite its price tag.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Sony's doing an excellent job. The "few exclusives" they have (and they have quite a bit more than a few) are excellent, time tested excellent titles. Metal Gear Solid 4? Gran Turismo 5? Final Fantasy 13? I'd pay 600 dollars just to play those titles alone. Not to mention titles like Warhawk, UT2k7 (which, as I understand, will be fairly different for PS3 and for PC), Gears of War (yeah, it comes out on the PS3 too.) and the massive amounts of developer support they'll get for having the easiest console to develop for.

Not to mention a blu-ray player and a HTPC with an upgradable HDD.[/QUOTE]

You know, if you honestly believe the PS3 is the easiest console to develope for after countless developer reports to the contrary, and still think Gears of War is coming to the PS3 (which it's not, Epic made it 360 exclusive long ago), frankly, there isn't much I can do.

Yeah, Gears of War is 360 exclusive.

Uh...a while ago it WAS the most difficult to develop for. But IBM recently made a compiler which automatically multithreads the code. Meaning no multithreading code needed. With over 7 different cores, yes, it WOULD HAVE BEEN the hardest to code for. But now with no multithreading needed versus the need to split code over 3 threads on the 360...yeah. I think you can see where I'm going with this.

Also, I haven't really followed Gears of Wars' progression (mainly because while it's interesting, I'd rather have UT2k7) so forgive me if I miss Epic making it 360 only.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Uh...a while ago it WAS the most difficult to develop for. But IBM recently made a compiler which automatically multithreads the code. Meaning no multithreading code needed. [/QUOTE]
If I believe you are talking about the Octopiler released near the end of Feb, well, I'd hardly say it automatically multithreads any code, it does the basic stuff but there is still a hell of a lot of other work that needs to be done for the specific nature of the Cell, its unlike any processor before with cores that do different jobs, making code run efficiently will be FAR from easy.

these two articles are quite a good read and also highlight the fact that it'll probably be another 5 years at least before the Octopiler will be able compile code written by 90% of programmers into efficient code for the CELL. linky1, linky2

This quote from the first link kinda sums up the challenge faced by the programmers at IBM working on Octopiler


The Cell does have the potential to outperform the chip in the 360, but getting programmers to write code to allow it will be another matter. It'll happen just not in the first few years of the PS3.

That will translate to more staying power. The other consoles will begin to hit their limits, but the PS3 won't as quickly. Also, the PS2 had a great track record of competed despite inferior hardware. Sony's not going to be hurt.

[QUOTE=James Bond]If I believe you are talking about the Octopiler released near the end of Feb, well, I'd hardly say it automatically multithreads any code, it does the basic stuff but there is still a hell of a lot of other work that needs to be done for the specific nature of the Cell, its unlike any processor before with cores that do different jobs, making code run efficiently will be FAR from easy.

these two articles are quite a good read and also highlight the fact that it'll probably be another 5 years at least before the Octopiler will be able compile code written by 90% of programmers into efficient code for the CELL. linky1, linky2

This quote from the first link kinda sums up the challenge faced by the programmers at IBM working on Octopiler


The Cell does have the potential to outperform the chip in the 360, but getting programmers to write code to allow it will be another matter. It'll happen just not in the first few years of the PS3.[/QUOTE]
Oh I know it'll take a while to get working perfectly, but it'll work eventually. And now it does a pretty good job at working. The Warhawk demo was made with the Octopiler, and it works damn well. Granted, I think the only thing they used the Cell for other than basic processing were graphics, but still, shows the potential. But yes, I know it will never be fully efficient, but even at 50% efficiency its easy to use power will blow whatever the 360 has out of the water, from a developmental perspective.


Aye. Ironically enough, the PS2 and the PS3 both are the only consoles able to do 1080p.

Sony may hold unto the #1 spot (in part because of their total foodhold in certain markets like Japan), but they will lose market share...and a lot of it. How does not translate into Sony getting hurt?

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi] Ironically enough, the PS2 and the PS3 both are the only consoles able to do 1080p.[/QUOTE]

Not true. http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/05/08/ps3-games-not-1080p/ More like a console that "possibly maybe" will see some games in 1080p later in its lifespan.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Oh I know it'll take a while to get working perfectly, but it'll work eventually.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, eventually, a few years into the console's lifespan, when developers will actually be able to use the architecture effectively to clearly outshine the 360, and when the console has dropped to $400 or less, and when Blueray has gone mainstream (hopefully, for Sony that is), I'm so getting one for Final Fantasy and MGS4. That's the time when most sane people will purchase one.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Yeah...you obviously didn't read any of the hands on. Trust me, as is, the PS3 stands to be the easiest console to develop for, despite its price tag.[/QUOTE]

Well, sure, unless you factor in how often the PS3 devkits crash.

Uh...yes true. Sony can put out 1080p on both the PS2 and the PS3. Whether or not games take advantage of it is up to them. I don't know what the **** you think you're saying when even the article you posted supports what I said.


Will it though? This is speculation based on hardcore gamers' assertion of the market, and the idea that most people don't want more than one console. You're forgetting about how many people think namebrand when it comes to consoles, and Sony has for two generations created the most used consoles. You'd be surprised how little Sony will be hurt this time around, I think.


Um...try at launch. They already have demos on the PS3 which are a bit better than things you'll see on the 360 (mainly I'm talking about Warhawk...that thing is sexy as hell).

[QUOTE=Cool Matty]Well, sure, unless you factor in how often the PS3 devkits crash.[/QUOTE]
That was a problem with the G5/7800GTX's as I'm aware. Now that they have the actual GPU and Cell for usage in the devkits it doesn't crash as much so I hear.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]That was a problem with the G5/7800GTX's as I'm aware. Now that they have the actual GPU and Cell for usage in the devkits it doesn't crash as much so I hear.[/QUOTE]

The ones they used at E3 crashed. A lot.

[QUOTE=Cool Matty]The ones they used at E3 crashed. A lot.[/QUOTE]
Wow, way to be descriptive with it. For all you know, a lot could mean 3 times in the span of an hour while someone was there, and that would be it.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Wow, way to be descriptive with it. For all you know, a lot could mean 3 times in the span of an hour while someone was there, and that would be it.[/QUOTE]

3 different reports of them locking up, from different sources. That descriptive enough?

[QUOTE=Cool Matty]3 different reports of them locking up, from different sources. That descriptive enough?[/QUOTE]
No. Three lock ups isn't a lot, especially considering we don't know what version of the devkit it is, nor do we know the details of the lockups (ie was it hot? Was the power shaky?).

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]No. Three lock ups isn't a lot, especially considering we don't know what version of the devkit it is, nor do we know the details of the lockups (ie was it hot? Was the power shaky?).[/QUOTE]

ie Does it matter?

Anyway, I thought you said they were using the latest devkits available at E3, didn't you? Or maybe that was someone/someplace else.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Uh...yes true. Sony can put out 1080p on both the PS2[/QUOTE]

Gran Turismo 4 ran in 1080i, not 1080p. Big difference.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Whether or not games take advantage of it is up to them. I don't know what the **** you think you're saying when even the article you posted supports what I said.[/QUOTE]

I don't think you understand the huge performance cost of running a game in 1080p. Developers do not choose to simply exclude 1080p support for the heck of it. What good is the fact that the console theoretically supports it when games are not made to run at 1080p? The fact that UT2007, an upcoming highly anticipated title for the PS3, is targeted at 720p pretty much destroys the "1080p as realistic on PS3" argument.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]You're forgetting about how many people think namebrand when it comes to consoles, and Sony has for two generations created the most used consoles. You'd be surprised how little Sony will be hurt this time around, I think.[/QUOTE]

The funny thing is, I used this argument 6 months ago to fend off people who said Microsoft is going to make huges gains. Guess what? That was before they announced that the console would cost $500-600, with new and expensive technology and huge losses per system sold as is that will prevent the price from going anywhere for a long time to come.

Casual gamers, the people you're referring to, will not pay $600 for a videogame console. No freaking way. Especially if Microsoft ramps up its marketing campaign with TV ads and what not and concentrates on its price advantage.

[QUOTE=Cool Matty]ie Does it matter?

Anyway, I thought you said they were using the latest devkits available at E3, didn't you? Or maybe that was someone/someplace else.[/QUOTE]
I said they were able to use the latest. Whether or not they took them to E3 is a different story.

And yes, it DOES matter what the conditions are. If it's exceedingly hot it could just be overheating (god only knows how well those things cool with such a huge die). Either way, I barely call 3 different crashes "a lot" within a week with such experimental technology. Especially since the technology it's made for isn't due out until November at the earliest.

Microsoft is all buddy buddy with MTV.

I think it took 2 PS2's, but Gran Turismo 4 was capable of 1080p output.


No, the PS3 is CAPABLE of 1080p. I don't think you understand that the true power of the console is just being seen in the devkits, and just now are they starting to see what it's really capable of. Not only that, but when does UT2k7 come out for PS3? Oh, right, next year. I'm pretty sure that "targetting" 720p just means that's what they're trying to get it to run on now, and if they can push it they will. Odds are they'll push it. Not only that, but games aren't the only things that run at 1080p.


$600 dollars for a semi-TiVo/Blu-Ray player plus something the kids can play with will be not that bad of a deal. And the 18-26 demographic, which is what I'm sure Sony is mainly focusing on, will jump all over the thing. What I don't think you understand is how much money we as Americans waste. Instead of dropping $300 on a PS2 at launch, $300 on an Xbox at launch, and $250 on a Gamecube at launch you'll see people dropping $600 on a PS3 and 300-ish on either a Revolution and games or on a 360, then waiting for the other console to come down.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]I said they were able to use the latest. Whether or not they took them to E3 is a different story.

And yes, it DOES matter what the conditions are. If it's exceedingly hot it could just be overheating (god only knows how well those things cool with such a huge die). Either way, I barely call 3 different crashes "a lot" within a week with such experimental technology. Especially since the technology it's made for isn't due out until November at the earliest.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, as long as the final kits don't crash on a "regular" basis then there's nothing to be worried about.

Wii wii.

I hate this thread.

The forum cuss filter should totally replace 'we' with 'wii'.

Do it.

A couple of weeks ago I would have said I don't plan to waste money on consoles any more (I own the xbox, ps2, and cube) but then I saw the video of smash bros.
And I just knew I would end up caving in and getting a Wii eventually (like when smash bros comes out).
THEN I saw other Wii videos, and holy-crap-I-must-have-a-Wii.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]I think it took 2 PS2's, but Gran Turismo 4 was capable of 1080p output.


[/QUOTE]

It was only 1080i.

An E3 thread is useless without E3 articles!

The Revolution will have SSB, so I'll buy it without hesitation. The fact that it's about $300-400 cheaper than the PS3 makes my bank account very happy.

SSB will have Snake, :p

I'd rather buy $700 worth of gravel than buy any of those because in 5 years the gravel will still be usefull.

We need to overthrow the tyrant who took over Sega. Stupid punk ended the hardware development for the company. They always made the best systems.

Hate. Thread.