Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
You do realize that many rappers aren't sincere don't you? You can't really make a blanket statement about rap one way or another. Just because you might listen to well thought out rap doesn't mean that most of it is done with any sort of philosophy in mind. A great deal of it is marketed to unintelligent people who like to be angry about nothing because they like being angry. I don't know what percentage of it is that way and what percentage of it is the other way. I'm just saying that the angry "being as disgusting as I possibly can" rap is either the product of a drugged up moron, or someone who is capitalize on the people who will buy it. I'm not making a blanket statement about all rap because that would be stupid. It's a form of music. I'm not criticizing the genre I'm criticizing is certain segment of the genre.
1) A small, or large, percentage of any genre does not represent the whole genre. Stop acting like it does.
2) You're only criticizing a certain segment? Oh, so that's why you said "gangsta rap", or "The crap MTV puts on", right? Oh, wait, even most "gangsta" rap artists have roots that you couldn't begin to understand. Tupac participated in the "gangsta rap" scene, yet his music changed a generation.
3) Stop making generalizations, and stop thinking you're holier-than-thou. It doesn't work.
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
Ahh, yes coming from someone at the ripe old age of 17. 
Who has more humility and is more humble than you. And considering who I am, that's saying quite a lot about your character.
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
You see, there is a difference between the thought behind a movement and what the average person gets out of that movement. The smart people handle the philosophy, and every one else hops on because they like what it lets them do. This may seem a bit cynical of course, but from what I've seen, it's true. The originators of the hippie movement probably did a fair deal of thinking and even though I think they are wrong, they still deserve a respectful conversation, because they are a) willing to engage in such a conversation and b) have thought about their position.
You've obviously never talked to someone who really believed in the..."hippie movement" I guess? I call it an enlightenment era that's precursoring the elimination of sex and drugs as taboo, which is something this society needs. Badly.
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
Unfortunately a great deal of teens joined the movement because they didn't want to handle authority. Especially parental authority. These people were just as full of anger and hate as anyone else, and were largely hypocritical, as which is to be expected given their motives. Many Vietnam war protests are indicative of this. They were filled will loud ignorant people who enjoyed feeling self-righteous. (Incidentally I don't believe the Vietnam War was justified, but that's beside the point.) These by and large were not people you could have an intelligent conversation with. I suppose by the strictest terms you could not really even call them hippies even though this was largely what the movement had turned into.
How do you know this? You're suddenly an expert on the teenage mind as of the 1960s? They didn't want to handle authority, true, but it was more geared towards the political misgivings of the time. In the 70s you had watergate. In the 60s it was Vietnam, the Korean War, etc. Wars create disillusionment with the government and with your society. See: The Lost Generation.
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
In the end it's not the movement itself I despise, it's the people who use a movement as an excuse to do something or hate people. Sadly it seems that these are always the people who make up the bulk part of a movement and eventually drag it into the ground. These are the people who are loud, hypocritical and self-righteous. They use movements as an excuse to hate people and do things that they could not otherwise get away with.
1) You couldn't name a single person who used the movement as an "excuse". You don't pay attention to the facts, or events like the riots at the colleges, you just hide yourself behind what your parents taught you, and your mentality that you inherited from them, and try to justify it.
2) They're not necessarily the majority, they're just more vocal. There's a difference.
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
Really, I can respect the people who will think and give me an intelligent discussion, no matter what their beliefs are. It think it's probably a bit of a misnomer to say you respect someones beliefs. A belief is not really something you respect or disrespect, you either agree with it or you don't. What you really should respect or not respect is the person who holds those beliefs.
No, you can respect someone's beliefs. I don't agree with Socialism, but I respect its proponents who try and find a way to implement it. So far, however, I've yet to see an even mostly socialistic government that works.
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
DJ Yoshi took a simplistic view of the conversation and quickly used it to jump to a conclusion that allowed him to feel self-righteous and indignant. He's done this as long as I can remember. I don't respect him for that, but I don't hate him for it either. If hating makes me happy I don't care. Perhaps I should, but I don't. He isn't hurting me at all.
See, here you go again, presuming to know everything. How do you know what I did, what I thought, what I was thinking of the moment I clicked "Reply"? Get off your high horse you 15 year old brat. Christ.
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
I was trying to emphasise that I was generalizing about rap music because I hadn't heard much of it. I was simply criticizing the people who listen to it for an emo boost, and those who give it to them for that reason. Not the genre. I should have been more clear about that at first. That's what I was try to (apparently unsuccessfully) communicate by saying that I was generalizing.
Then you say "admittedly, I've only heard the tripe MTV spits out at me, once in a while, but this is how I feel about what I've seen", and then people point you in the right direction and guide you instead of seeing you as a pompous little kid, like you are.
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
Well, I for one, have learned something from this conversation. By doing so, I have fulfilled the primary goal of intelligent conversation. Conversation is not Quake with words.
What? Intelligent conversation? You call bashing everything you don't know about and then brushing aside the criticisms of your ineptitude "intelligent conversation"? Good christ I'd like to know what you call a debate.
Grow up and get some experience. One day, maybe, you'll realize you don't know everything.
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