Posting this again so some one actually does read it:
If America looses 4 billion dollars from the illegal immigrants out of 300 billion dollars, everyone is going to starve, be homeless, and what not. In short, you loose 4 dollars out of 300, to help out alot of people. Are you losing alot?

Alright, you're obviously one of those people who don't get the big picture.

Things cost money. Money has to come from somewhere. Now, most people, those who pay insurance, or taxes to support their country, they deserve the health care they paid for. If they did not pay for it, no, they don't deserve it, because there's no way for them to do it. Now if you want to argue about the validity of certain health plans, that's a different story, but we're talking about just health care in general.

This argument is akin to the "if someone needs food, they shouldn't have to pay for it if they can't afford it" argument, and I agree to a point. I think regular checkups should be free, I think basic foodstuffs should be free. I do not think heart transplants should be free. I do not think cappuccinos, prime rib, and rib-eyes should be free (and once again, don't go off to me on the inflated price of the surgeries as a direct result of high doctor fees, I agree to a point).

So in other words--if someone is dying, and they need medical attention, but they can't get it, and have no plans, no money anywhere to pay for it...sorry. Humans are too afraid of death. That sounds cold, callous, what have you, but when you're the doctor who's looking at paying his bills, you'd understand.

However, that's a very, very infrequent problem, and a special, isolated case. And it's also the price you pay for breaking the law.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Alright, you're obviously one of those people who don't get the big picture.

Things cost money. Money has to come from somewhere. Now, most people, those who pay insurance, or taxes to support their country, they deserve the health care they paid for. If they did not pay for it, no, they don't deserve it, because there's no way for them to do it. Now if you want to argue about the validity of certain health plans, that's a different story, but we're talking about just health care in general.

This argument is akin to the "if someone needs food, they shouldn't have to pay for it if they can't afford it" argument, and I agree to a point. I think regular checkups should be free, I think basic foodstuffs should be free. I do not think heart transplants should be free. I do not think cappuccinos, prime rib, and rib-eyes should be free (and once again, don't go off to me on the inflated price of the surgeries as a direct result of high doctor fees, I agree to a point).

So in other words--if someone is dying, and they need medical attention, but they can't get it, and have no plans, no money anywhere to pay for it...sorry. Humans are too afraid of death. That sounds cold, callous, what have you, but when you're the doctor who's looking at paying his bills, you'd understand.

However, that's a very, very infrequent problem, and a special, isolated case. And it's also the price you pay for breaking the law.[/QUOTE]

There is something called "credit" you know. I'm sure that a Mexican can pay his medical bills over time.

4 billion out of many trillions of dollars.

No, we're not crippled by it. We as Americans can still function. Until more people start coming over. Soon it's 8 million people a year, or 8 billion dollars. Then 16 million. Then before you know it it's 100 million people a year, or 100 billion dollars, not to mention the drain they are on the economy. You're looking at trillions of dollars of debt.

We as Americans also need to keep our standard of living up. I said Americans. Not Mexicans. We work hard for our money, we spend our money on taxes, and we expect to see it returned to us. Not sunk into some illegal immigrant who has no right to stay in our country, pays no taxes, and is a leech on our economy. I don't care how big/little of a leech he/she is, they're still a leech. They do not earn their keep.

Okay, now you're making an even bigger risk. You have an illegal immigrant who has no steady job, no social security number, no permanent home, no way of tracking him down, basically, and you expect him to pay a, say, 300,000 dollar operation off. On credit.

1) Not only would that take an ASTRONOMICALLY long time, somewhere in the hundreds of years at the wage illegals make, probably, but

2) You have no guarantee that he'd pay it. Get some common sense in your head, kid. If you have a 300,000 dollar bill you can skip just by moving to a different town, you would.

Your argument falls apart here. The U.S. medical system is privatized. It's a business. No one in the U.S. has a right to medical services.

Sort of. You have things like Medicaid and Medicare though that socialize it somewhat.

300 000 dollar operation? How many illegal immigrants need a 300 000 dollar operation to save their lives? Not that many now then is there?

Do you even have any idea how much medical care costs? Of course not.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]So in other words--if someone is dying, and they need medical attention, but they can't get it, and have no plans, no money anywhere to pay for it...sorry. [/QUOTE]



|:

I know that the U.S. medical costs are incredibly inflated. It cost 2000 dollars to help fix my brothers dislocated arm. It cost just as much down here to remove a blood clought from my mothers thigh.

Uh...in America? Almost everything that includes surgery that's life threatening is about that expensive.


That's because, if I remember right, your medicare is socialized, not to mention MUCH subpar to the American system. Meaning it sucks, and your government pays for some of it. America's health care IS inflated, but one way or another the money has to be paid, despite inflation. Like I said, the price you pay for hopping the fence.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Uh...in America? Almost everything that includes surgery that's life threatening is about that expensive.


That's because, if I remember right, your medicare is socialized, not to mention MUCH subpar to the American system. Meaning it sucks, and your government pays for some of it. America's health care IS inflated, but one way or another the money has to be paid, despite inflation. Like I said, the price you pay for hopping the fence.[/QUOTE]

Nooo... this was at a PRIVATE hospital. The government medical thing is like you said, crap. People go there to die. Literally.

Well seeing as I have no knowledge of the (many) extenuating circumstances of the situation, your example obviously fails, not to mention it relies once again on your trustworthiness, which is shoddy at best.

Club de Leones was the name of the hospital. Look it up, its known worldwide.

Obviously not. But regardless, I'd have to have access to its patient records, pricings, etc to validify ANY of your statements.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]Obviously not. But regardless, I'd have to have access to its patient records, pricings, etc to validify ANY of your statements.[/QUOTE]

I'll be right back.

I think your best bet here would be to put Yoshi on ignore...

make sure to underline all the titles you type in there gold, make it look all official, its not like this information ain't confidential.

already done

Why, because I'm the only one who actually tries to educate him instead of just insulting him?

Oh, yeah. Good reasoning.

Er...you've constantly insulted him in this thread. You seem to do that a lot.

At one point you said this:


Then this, to 7:


And now you've just said this to me:



I'm not about to run off to my hole and cry, but I think that Gold should put you on ignore because you seem to constantly get personal over everything and if this thread keeps going the way it is it'll just end in tears. Did I really say anything to warrant that kind of sarcastic, snappish response?

Debating is one thing (and they're bound to occasionally get heated) but there's no need to slip in sarcastic comments and insulting remarks all the time.

Like, why can't you be nice? I don't get it.

That's just how he writes. I would have thought you'd all be used to it by now. :p

That's not an insult. That's me talking.


I did insult landfish, but that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about Gold.


That's just sarcasm. Not an insult.


1) Please, don't go and cry. If you did...well you have some problems.
2) Where did I get personal? I don't really recall ever doing that, except maybe with landfish, but he earns any insult I give him. He earned it time and time again.
3) Why can't I be "nice"? Aw, I'm sorry, do I not fit the picture-perfect image of massassi that you've come to get in your head over the years?

Nobody's ever been "nice" to me, in fact, most of massassi has been rather rude to me, including you in the past buddy. Don't think I forgot all the debates we had, either. Don't go criticizing me for being realistic. I'm not mean, unless you're some kind of pansy boy, but I'll agree I'm not nice. Deal?

This argument got derailed. Which serves it right. That was the most blatant hi-jack ever.

Anyway, I've realized that try to discuss or argue anything important on these boards is useless. People are just too emotionally involved in things.

I'm not.

Actually Yoshi has insulted me but I expect nothing more than that at these boards. I'm so glad that the problem seems to only revolve around here. Now then, I have just recently changed my point of view on the issue to neutral due to a certain news report that was called to my attention earlier today:

How Mexico Treats Immigrants

That being mentioned, I am now neutral until I can form my own point of view.

Ah, yes but, er, some people are. *Cough*

*appears from the shadows*

I apologize for not reading through the thread in its entirety (Illegal immigrants? wtf?), but I simply just wished to state why I believe it (the previously asked question on why people anger at things they fail to understand) occurs.

I believe this behavior originates from the primitive behavioral processes of the human mind, in which we all exhibit to some degree- possibly depending on how the individual or individuals in question where raised. Patience is also a variable (which, at times, relates back to the manner in which the individual was raised).

It can be argued that this behavior has been present since the creation of man (due to a more limited understanding of things), and also that the behavior is becoming even more present in today’s society (due to the advancement of technology, speeding up the processes of modern man, thus increasing the expectations of ‘Now! Now! Now!’ thus creating this degradation of patience).

Well… there’s my two cents. >_<

*disappears into the shadows once again*

In other words people are annoying, irrational idiots?

But, what about the inhumane tangent?! I thought that was your POV, not that your country is horribly corrupt, as you yourself had stated earlier. Hell, Mexico demands metric tons more of the US than what they themselves wouldn't provide to their own people. I don't see why this affects your previous, um... argument.

And seriously, someone call the freaking WAAAAHHHHMMMMBulance to this thread. So there's a few jerks on the Internet? People aren't tactful? HOLY CRAP! WHAT A FREAKING REVALATION! The ignore function is for pansies, and personal attacking is for those whose arguments are inherently weak.

Seriously, what is the ignore function there for? My god, there are these words, I AM COMPELLED TO READ THEM. If it isn't worthy of mod deletion, then tough, read it. I can't believe anyone is so sensitive to actually use the ignore function.

1.No actually its more like a kid breaking his neck on you'r trampoline. Becuase the imigerents aren't right on the border.

2.If America looses 4 billion dollars from the illegal immigrants out of 300 billion dollars, everyone is going to starve, be homeless, and what not. In short, you loose 4 dollars out of 300, to help out alot of people. Are you losing alot?

more like 4 out of 1000 dollars i agreee here.

From a less scientific standpoint, getting angry has several advantages over trying to understand something. To name a couple, it's easier and more immediately gratifying.

And easier means you don't have to think for yourself.

Something tells me the whole Immigration thing needs its own thread.

Something tells me otherwise, as it would degenerate into flame war quicker than you can say inferno.

Yeah, but Gold was to lazy to make his own so he just used mine.

Well i suppose that's my fault too. I did afterall join in.

Sorry.

Anyhow..... I think most people get angry at things they don't understand so they can say "Ya im with that guy!" at work the next day. I.O.W Just to fit in.

People also don't like to admit that they don't know something. Getting angry is a means to cover that.

Anger... can make you feel good... but keep in mind that it won't let you think straight... so I try evading it these days.