I don't hate macs at all, i usually just hate how ignorant and overly defensive mac users are. i recently got in a feud with a mate of mine because he told me that a mac can not get a virus.
i told him how dumb that is, and so went over to the school library and went to the website which says things like.

http://www.apple.com/

"No plugging in some clunky wireless card."
as if new pcs on the market use wireless cards its inbuilt.

...and tell me if this is contradictory

"Mac offers absolutely flawless integration of hardware and software."

"Of course, should you happen to experience the occasional hiccup with your Mac, you won’t get the runaround."
I thought it was flawless so therefore the occasional hiccup is impossible.

and things like this that are so vague....
"Once bitten with the movie-making bug(referring to Imovie), those filmmakers are now screening movies shot in high definition and showing them on widescreen displays. How many PC applications do you think can do that?"

but the main webpage on the site that annoys me the most is the one referring to viruses.

"Connecting a PC to the Internet using factory settings is like leaving your front door wide open with your valuables out on the coffee table. A Mac, on the other hand, shuts and locks the door, hides the key, and stores your valuables in a safe with a combination known only to you. "

thats only because factory settings are before you install any additional programs, programs you get to choose that are all the best at what they do not like mac which has one program for say movie making which may have a easy user interface, but may not be as advanced as say a macromedia program.
you know what i mean.

its just a matter of what you prefer, i personally like it this way where i choose to get norton for my anti virus software, rather than bill gates strapping me in with 100% microsoft programs.

i can see the positive and negative to both sides but does anyone else think that macintosh is effectively using scare campaigns against pc's aimed at computer illiterate people. i am really pissed off about all these maccers.

i basically want to know the debates on the whole 'mac is better than everything, at everything' argument, and be pointed in the right direction if i am ignorant of the gleaming white truth of macintosh.

Whats been bothering me lately with Apple is the young/cool/hip vs sick/old/stupid commercials. yay for marketing

I have a friend who's life mission seems to be converting me to Macs. He's used the "no viruses" one on me; now, with the Parallels program that lets you run Windows on the Mac, he tells me it runs Windows better than a PC does.

Actually, we've been using Boot Camp and Parallels here at work, and it runs really, really well. The hardware integration ensures you dont have driver issues, etc, since it's all proprietary, and software can be optimized for mac hardware.

Using a MacBook pro here at work for a couple days completely converted me.

Speaking of MacBook Pro's...here's your chance people! Advanced computer users are obviously going to have a beef with the Apple ads, but the fact of the matter is that much of what they say is essentially true, at least as far as a common user is concerned. Someone who doesn't want to know much about a computer doesn't need to know why they won't get a virus on a Mac, just that they won't. Sure, it's possible, just like it's possible on Linux, but it's relatively rare compared to that of the Windows world. Anyways, while I agree with what you're saying, Apple is simply taking advantage of the fact that newbie users don't really care about why something is, they only care that it is, and they're going to have a far more enjoyable time using an Apple than they would a PC anyways.

that made me laugh

Congratulations, you know the definition of marketing. Marketing is all about providing the best image possible for your product. Gross exagerations are allowed, even though smarter people like us know that they may no be true. While you are at it, go on a tirade about Ford, Honda, Subaru, Microsoft, Dell, IBM, Alienware, Best Buy, the list go on. All use tactics to make their product look the best possible. While perhaps all of those aren't to the point of Apple (even though retail chains do a pretty good job scaring people into buying computers they don't need), they all do it.

Get over it, it's marketing

Thats the point, you havent got to spend more money on getting the machine internet ready is done for you already.
The point is not everyone is so savvy with computers as we are, for the average consumer who have children who know more about computers than they do, they feel more confident in buying them because they like the idea that everything is already in the box and they havent goto spend more money on AV software, and before you say, well get a free AV solution and firewall solution off the internet, yes we know about this, but the normal human being doesnt.
We sell this principle to every customer that comes in the shop after a new Mac, they have had a PC and now after a Mac, I deal with people who dont know one end of windows to another, Apple have done a great job with these adverts because people can relate to it, people see the old plump guy as themselves and the younger person as their children.
The marketing has done wonders it really has.
Yes some Mac users are arrogant, but I also find that with PC users too, each to their own.

It's too bad Macs are morbidly expensive, save the Macbook.

I don't get why you have to be a "convert". Seriously, Macs run windows now so why can't you just like...both? Technically a Mac is a PC at this point, so "converting" is pointless.

And the marketing is stupid, cliche, and overly aggressive, and Apple has, for a while now, been going down on the marketing aspect. Seriously, the stolen music video, the "HAHA MAC BETTAR THAN PC" adverts that really insult PCs instead of praising macs...you'd think Apple was running for president, not trying to sell computers.

Either way, the only thing Apple has to sell anymore is the software and the aesthetics.

what is the advantage of macs over pcs?

is it stuff like video editing and photoshop stuff?

Yep, plus i've heard they crash less and the newer os's even though powerful are not resource hogs like the upcoming vista. I gotta have windows though for the games

[QUOTE=Mr. Stafford]what is the advantage of macs over pcs?

is it stuff like video editing and photoshop stuff?[/QUOTE]
There's no "speed advantage", for the most part. I don't know if the new Adobe suite will run better under OSX, but other than that the two OS's are practically the same, now that Apple's gone with PC hardware.

Also, OSX does NOT crash less. If anything it crashes more, and I've heard that the new ones are even worse about it. Anyone who says OSX and its programs crash less has never used OSX for extended periods of time.

And OSX is most definitely a resource hog--you need a gig of memory to truly get decent speed on the thing. It's kind of ridiculous, really. The processors also need to be insanely fast. OSX and Apple computers aren't all they're cracked up to be, but they're nice. Don't believe all the bull**** Apple fanboys feed you.

Ok, looks like I was sadly mistaken

well we used to do photo and page editing on macs for the last two years.

first year we had those ones that were just translucent fruity coloured monitors, they were slow and crashed sometimes.

then we moved onto newer ones that also tended to crash... they were just monitors but they werent big CRT things like the old ones... there was about 3 inches of space at the bottom of the screen too, i dont know any of the model names, but these ones worked a bit faster, still managed to crash often though.

are they any cheaper or is that about 50/50 mac/pc too?

Because MacOS has to deal with mostly only Apple hardware. Not much can go wrong when you have a handful of drivers to deal with. Windows, on the other hand, has to deal with A LOT of device drivers. Personally, I think Windows should dump a lot of the drivers and just tell hardware makers to "make your own damned driver" except for networking/modem drivers. Pisses me off when on fresh install, Windows doesn't have network card driver.

Re: the comment about internet safety out of the box:

If you get a chance to watch someone take a mac fresh out of the box and get it going, don't pass it up - it's so simple compared to a windows install.

For example when I turned mine for the first time it detected my dad's wireless network, asked for my apple ID, then once given it the OS new my time zone, language, and all that gubbins. *Out of the box*

It does just work. Ok, so it doesn't do all the games stuff but believe me I've grown out of it: my PowerBook is the perfect business/travel companion. I'm never going back to a PC.

NB: Though I may come across as a fanboy, I'm not - I use both systems every day and both have their quirks - I just find everything quicker and easier on the mac.

Actually, there's a lot of wireless bull**** that can happen on macs. When working with WPA especially I've seen problems.

And I've never had a problem getting my windows installs to work correctly--if you don't know what you're doing sure macs are going to be the obviously easier choice, but there's also a lot of problems with them that may be just the machine itself (random crashes/restarts, random programs crashing, freezes even past the point of "force restart", etc) which can be a HUGE pain, and I find it's more frequent in macs than in PCs.

Not that I'm downtalking macs--I do like OSX quite nicely, and I do love the MB/MBPs, but there's a lot of problems with them that no one ever addresses.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]
Also, OSX does NOT crash less. If anything it crashes more, and I've heard that the new ones are even worse about it. Anyone who says OSX and its programs crash less has never used OSX for extended periods of time.
[/QUOTE]

OSX and its programs crash less. I've used OS X for a year and a half, and my brother for 2. I've never had a crash, whether it be audio/video editing, surfing, playing games. I'd consider that to be an extended period of time. Then again, this applies only to me and my brother. Whether it be Windows or OSX, it all depends on the person running the machine.

Buckles is right, neither of use have experienced a crash. Of course, I'm wondering what the definition of crash in this instance is. For example, I've had programs close on me randomly with OS X. One minute I'll be surfing the web with Safari, the next it will shut down. For me however, crashing implies the computer just dying, or me having to restart it. In the two years with my iBook, Powerbook, and MacBook, I've never had either of those happen to me. Of course, like Buck says, this is two people here.

No, it really doesn't. I've used OSX extensively for a good year now, and it crashes frequently. I say you're downright lying--every OSX user, newly converted, everyone except fanboys admits that OSX programs crash quite often. The OS itself maybe not as much, but that much is down to the user like you said.

Yoshi is pretty much spot-on. In addition to the memory penalty of Aqua (which is immense), the Mach kernel is a poorly-designed kludge. We see far superior performance out of MBPs while they are running Windows.

There are only two reasons you should ever buy a Mac: AppleCare and the build quality (although from what I've heard, both of those are rather lackluster these days). A PC can do everything a Mac can and more. And the virus/security deal is a total nonissue, since Linux is better at security and it's available on far more platforms. Plus, Linux can do everything OSX can, and there are more games ported to it.

I've driven a car for years and never crashed.

Cars don't crash.

Period.

Freaking fanboys.

I hear Applecare sucks so bad. Dell's service, surprisingly, is actually excellent though. But that's just hearsay.

Dell's service would be better if I didn't have Azjemhidan from India walking me through the process of restarting my laptop in order to get a RMA and then trying to guess the address I'm supposed to send it to through his horrible accent. Thanks, Azjemhidan from India.

Since the Genius Bar started up AppleCare is basically worthless. Apple also bans people who make legitimate tech support requests or comments on their forum, and selectively choose which damage they will repair. Most serious problems with their products require an enormous public backlash in order to get fixed, such as the staining on the Macbook chassis. The pitting issue on certain batches of aluminum Powerbooks still hasn't been solved, even though it's clearly a manufacturing issue.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that I don't think too highly of Apple. I believe their products are not worthwhile, with the possible exception of the iPod (although I hate the iTunes interface horribly. My iPod/phone is not a playlist, god damn it).

slight derail but just a question... in america, when you make a phonecall to your bank or to find out about train times, do you end up talking to someone in Bombay?

personally, i'm ****ing sick of it, they have a bad grasp of english, and the fact that our regional accent makes it even more difficult for them to understand, pisses me off to no end.

I haven't had to deal with Applecare yet, but they seemed to work well for those here at work who called them. I have, however, dealt with Dell's support often, and since I have always talked to an American (or someone who has a grasp of English) on the other line so it has always been a positive experience.

Didn't some brouhaha go down @ SA over a thread on how to effectively repair the heatsink on a Macbook so to not give 2nd degree burns when you put it on lap? Some legal actions were threatened too.

That's because Dell recently opened a cell center here in Edmonton for American customers. Edmontonians, on the other hand, need to talk to people in India and China.

Yes, but Apple didn't threaten the person who posted the thread. They threatened Lowtax and he cussed them out for it. In the end, the only valid complaint they had was that the thread contained images from the MBP maintenance manual. They were definitely trying to silence the issue, though.

And that's another thing: Apple sues people more often than Microsoft and Dell combined. I'm not talking about companies suing other companies, I'm talking about Apple threatening their customers into silence. Apple is a horrible company.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]

And I've never had a problem getting my windows installs to work correctly-[/QUOTE]

i wasn't getting at borked installs, just the babysitting you have to do when installing it, and what I was going to mention but forgot to was that if I install win xp on a new machine, the first thing I do is get online and download a veritable bucketload of 3rd party software to get my machine up to a useable standard. The only MUST that I have on my mac is Quicksilver.

Anyway, do I look bothered?

<.<
>.>

Mac fanboys suck, PC fanboys suck.

Yo momma sucks, Finnboi!

Everyone complains about Apple and their demographic chart commercials. Who cares? Look at how well the iPod is doing because of their commercials and word of mouth. That's why Apple hires people that are NOT YOU to do their advertising.

SAJN's right, very few of you are actually as pompus and egotistical as you come off on here; those few could make commercials for Apple.

yay!

To be fair though, SAJNs point would be useful a year or two ago, thing is, in this day and age, their marketing is a wee bit bland, their marketing doesnt ring sales in these days, people are a bit "meh" about it.

Now I hate advertising, but i'd love to work for someone like apple, because I reckon it looks easy.

[QUOTE=Victor Van Dort]Everyone complains about Apple and their demographic chart commercials. Who cares? Look at how well the iPod is doing because of their commercials and word of mouth. That's why Apple hires people that are NOT YOU to do their advertising.[/QUOTE]
The iPod is popular because of its popularity, not because of the commercials.

Seriously, people actually refer to MP3 players as "iPods", whether it's of that brand or no. The reason the iPod became so popular was it was the first affordable DAP that stored a lot of music that had decent adverts. It asserted itself in the market early, and even though better DAPs have come around (see: Toshiba Gigabeat S, iAudio), they're still just that well known. Apple hires idiots and tools to do their advertising--they hire Apple fanboys, or people who can act like them well enough.

Apple could stop advertising today and still push immense sales of the iPod for years. It's not about the adverts they have now, it's about the adverts they had back in the day.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]people actually refer to MP3 players as "iPods"[/QUOTE]Because they're dumb

people actually refer to smalltalk as "inefficient".

because they're dumb.

some folk dont give a **** about technology, live with it.

They may be dumb, but they also buy the larger percentage of the iPods. So how smart they are is moot.

Moot is a great word if you say it over and over again. It just sounds so silly after a while.