Michael Moore is smart in that he manages to pass polictically based satirical comedy off as documentaries. Many people are stupid in that they think these works are serious. I would consider his movies to be viewed as either propaganda or satire. They have a certain amount of comedic value but would be much better if their length were cut in half.

So what if I do?

All Boricua said was that if someone wanted to make a movie about Bush being assassinated, then they should feel free to...the freedom is theirs to exercise. The man isn't doing himself any favors with cowboy diplomacy. It's lazy, irresponsible, and arrogant. Not exactly helping his image. The stuff in the clips she showed only helps dull the luster on his leadership capabilities. He's just an unusually flawed leader and he's vulnerable to attacks like this movie, if it's actually an attack, per se. Since she thinks his leadership stands in the way of the peace and prosperity of the American people and the country's standing with the rest of the world, then it's completely fine to make a movie speculating about his assassination.

Bush is not a good leader. Like I said...cowboy diplomacy doesn't work, as he originally thought. What I'd rather have seen is more wisdom and thought put into his actions in Iraq. For starters, he was a fool not to realize that it would've been difficult to just oust old regimes cold turkey that were rooted in the culture and implanted a foreign idea of government that those societies had never used before. Bush thought democracy was the end-all, be-all gov't for the world, and it is about the best out there. However, inciting revolution is also a very fragile process. You plant the roots for it with diplomats, not guns and bombs. The Bush administration didn't have the patience for this, so they resorted to a plan that had a clear entry strategy: "Bombs away!"--but still, to this date, has no clear exit strategy. A good leader would've known better. They would've sent diplomats and done it the right way by setting about change within the culture and played the situation like a grandmaster of chess, with all the skill and wisdom to make the right moves at the right times.

So here we are stuck in this mess in Iraq, losing soldiers weekly. Without a centralized government--even if it was an inhumane dictatorship--the Shiites and Sunnis are having at each other over religious beliefs and we're trying to use our guns and tanks to stop them! How frickin naive! Guns sound like THE LAST thing that would be good for making both sides reconcile with each other. Yet Bush continues on with his baseless rhetoric, saying that we're keeping America safe from "tarr'ists", without a CLUE as to how to fix Iraq. He was so deadset passionate about getting in...he had it all worked out, knew what to do, and stopped at nothing to make it happen. Why the frick isn't he all gung-ho about what to do during the occupation and exit? Inexperience and ignorance are the cause for this mess. Good, intelligent leaders eat those things for breakfast.

I'm not a Democrat or a liberal. I'm a Republican. I used to think Bush knew what to do. After a couple of years of inactivity and confusion, I can see he doesn't. I'm not sure I'd say Bush is the worst leader the country could have, but I don't think he's got much going for him. He's got the wrong personality for a president. He's in way over his head and he's lost control of his power. That's really bad and it's worthy of ridicule.

Well I'm glad I got people talking. It boils down to this, Kirby believes that morally a movie of this matter is immoral, I on the other hand find it artistic, and oh well, maybe it will just pose the question of What if he werent president and we still have the economic and world problems that we do now. who knows.

Its as simple as this, you have your opinon, and I have mine. We dont agree, and basically as much as we go back and forth we arent going to agree. So we will just agree to disagree. End of story.


PS Ewoklover rocks! lol

All I know is that multiple people here have stated that they want to see Bush, our president, assassinated. You people are sick, a disgrace to the country and don't deserve to be called an American.

They don't deserve to be called burgerboys either.

IRG get over it

Also IRG let me elaborate, dont EVER ever call me un American.

My grandfathers fought for the US in WWII, My father is a Major in the Army and my cousin is currently in the Air Force fighting in Iraq.

Once more, I didnt say I want him dead in real life. I said it was a movie. So WHAT if I want to see the movie, am I saying go out and kill the man NO. So stop miscontrewing my words. Get off your high horse, my opinon is mine, and yours is yours, but dont you dare call me un American because you disagree with me

In other news, earlier today Bush finally acknowledged the existence of secret CIA prisons.

I really don't understand how that's news.

Anyone find "unAmerican" to be such a crap insult that when you see it being used you hope it's just satire?

I'm talking about the secret CIA prisons in foreign countries, where they secretly transported suspected terrorists to question them. The government always denied these practices, untill now. It was a matter of time though, with all the EU investigations going on. Lots of countries are being criticized for collaborating.

Why are you using the actions of others to prove your own patriotism? That sort of thing always bugs me.

I almost joined the army myself, my parents wouldnt let me. Quite frankly, I am as American as they come. And I've supported all my family in that. The fact that he calls me un American is laughable

I'm pretty sure you admitted to it on the first page....

[QUOTE=IRG SithLord]I'm pretty sure you admitted to it on the first page....[/QUOTE]

Quoted for truth

[QUOTE=IRG SithLord]I'm pretty sure you admitted to it on the first page....[/QUOTE]

No, she didn't.



WELL YOU'RE WRONG LAWL



And that's all she said.

I said I wanted to see the movie, to see that happen, never did I say "hey someone go out an assassinate Bush, I want to see that in real life". I have never at any pt. said that I wanted him dead in real life.

What I said is called sarcasm, as well as joking around...it might do you some good to learn that

ORJ FTW!

[QUOTE=IRG SithLord]I'm pretty sure you admitted to it on the first page....[/QUOTE]

Why don't you find us a quote if you're pretty sure?

IRG just wants her locked away in Guantanamo, for violating the patriot act.

If Bush acknowledges secret CIA prisons, do secret CIA prisons still exist?

Haha nice.

Ok, maybe I went overboard but the quotes I'm drawing from are from ewok's post, mine, ewok's again, and then boricua's (in that order, and before the thread title was changed). It was a conclusion I got instantly from them and I thought it was pretty obvious.

ORJ: No. I just believe it's dispicable and un-American for someone to indicate that they want their own president dead (which, again, I got from those posts above).

And, for the record, I'm libertarian. So don't preach your patriot act bull**** to me.

[QUOTE=IRG SithLord]All I know is that multiple people here have stated that they want to see Bush, our president, assassinated. You people are sick, a disgrace to the country and don't deserve to be called an American.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't go so far as to say I want to see Bush assassinated, but I wouldn't shed a tear (or care at all, really) if he bit the bullet. Impeachment would be preferable, especially if enacted by the GOP.

[QUOTE=Michael MacFarlane]If Bush acknowledges secret CIA prisons, do secret CIA prisons still exist?[/QUOTE]

Keep up that kind of talk, you might just find out.
>.>
<.<

I bet the prisons are so secret, you don't even know if you're in one.

This thread quickly turned from mildly amusing to deeply disturbing.

All hell's breaking loose over those secret CIA flights and prisons over here in Europe.

Rice has lied repeatedly to our minister of foreign affairs in answer to specific questions about the existence of this 'system', so the trust has been seriously damaged. They also made the politicians who believed and defended the Americans look like fools.

The chairman of the research commission for the European Council stated that "It is now evident that the United States are fighting their dirty war on terrorism totally outside of the legal order". He also said: "There is more, a lot more that needs to be revealed by the United States. The European governments now have all the more reason to find out who were involved in this."

Sounds pretty funny to me.

You think massive corruption is funny?


.............................okay.

Oh, so them finally admitting it is news. Because those prisons have been around for...let me figure out how old the CIA is...

It shouldn't be hard to see the political implications of this.

I don't care about the political implications, I care about the fact that now they're going to have to break out the huge guns in breaking people down psychologically and do things that don't leave marks like drowning/revival techniques since the media will be all over any interrogation story that comes out dealing with "torture" (which lead to the military's new interrogation doctrine).

Drowning techniques are also considered torture. Except by the US, these days.

Yes, yes they are, but you do have to prove that you were being tortured, which is hard to do with those techniques.

Haha. You're a funny li'l roach.

That's an odd comment. Do you not believe it would take the Red Cross to find marks of torture in order for anyone to care? Because their inspectors can't detect that someone has been drowned and revived.

I misread one of your previous posts (it was 3 am for me), I thought you were saying something along the lines of 'dammit, the jig is up, now we'll have to torture them invisibly!'. Nevermind.

I think what matters more, is that these secret facilties need to be closed, and the secret transports must stop. People are just disappearing. What the US is doing now, is very bad in the long run. They say it's all in our best interest, and that they possibly saved people from terrorist attacks. But how can we tell? If it's all illegal, and secret, and noone is able to check out what's happening, it's a very wrong system.

The problem with that is, every day, horrible things are done in the name of national defense, and there are very few nations innocent of that. Those horrible things are somewhat a needed evil, what those people know, we need to know as well.

The end shouldn't justify the means. It's not like there's no way to do this legally.