Nahh, come over hurr, it be mad hot up in this piece. Nah dawg, not over thurr, over hurr. dat sh*ts bangin' yo! Dats mad bangin'! <-- I hear that at school EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!!!!!! Conversations like that.

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I made a thread, that turned into the debate, so I made a second thread, that turned into a debate, then I made a third thread, that caught on fire, burned down, got flamed, crapped on, bashed, then turned into a debate...but the fourth one, the fourth one stayed on topic!

I really like how the majority likes to pull the racist card on truthful events and happenings. They don't care if it's true, if it's negative and towards an ethnic community it's racism. =/

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Wake up, rise and shine, Gotta take another pint, Dig heads and watch out for the night.

"Whenever we saw Chubby Frankins, he would make a face like this!"

"Dad, you don't understand, I got a girl pregnant!"

"And when we saw Chubby Frankins make a face like that, we made a face like this!!"

(Family Guy, btw)

Anyways, he's right. Illegitmacy is one big problem

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"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"

who decides what is proper grammar?



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The University of North Carolina has finally found a network server that, although missing for four years, hasn't missed a packet in all that time. Try as they might, university administrators couldn't find the server. Working with Novell Inc., IT workers tracked it down by meticulously following cable until they literally ran into a wall. The server had been mistakenly sealed behind drywall by maintenance workers.

i work in customer service and i cannot even understand what a person says unless they speak clearly and proper american english.

My job become terribly difficult and inefficient when i cannot even help people, and you know what then they get mad at the business and go nuts on us, all because they decide to say

"Yo manz wo can i take this back word"

ARG!GG@!G@!G@

/i'm not going to classify this as a "black" problem, it's some kind of commercial generated urgan gansta sub culture over running the entire country.

McDonald's "im lovin it"

thank your local neighborhood snoop dog and master P

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---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.

you still didn't answer my question.



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The University of North Carolina has finally found a network server that, although missing for four years, hasn't missed a packet in all that time. Try as they might, university administrators couldn't find the server. Working with Novell Inc., IT workers tracked it down by meticulously following cable until they literally ran into a wall. The server had been mistakenly sealed behind drywall by maintenance workers.

[whoopee.]

Oxford, I think. some english place.

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Wake up, rise and shine, Gotta take another pint, Dig heads and watch out for the night.

[This message has been edited by Seb (edited July 02, 2004).]

A small board of school teachers in Northwestern Nebraska, actually. Who incidentally are communist. And quite likely homosexual, and possibly not-pasty-white, with a small chance that they club babye seals on the weekend. Oh, and they each have three brass teeth.

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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"If all those usefull inventions that are lyable to abuse, should therefore be concealed, there is not any Art or Science, which might be lawfully profest."
-John Wilkins, Mercury, or the Secret and Swift messenger, shewing how a man may with privacy and speed Communicate his thoughts to a Friend at any distance (London, 1641)
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

Interestingly enough, (but don't quote me on this) I've heard that racism is almost tipping in the other direction to some respects. I mean, i've heard it said somewhere that if a college board had to choose between a black male and white male college applicants, they might pick the black, even if he scored lower on the SATs or whatever, just so that their college looked good (as apposed to discriminatory). Could someone tell me if what I'm saying is complete nonsense, or has anyone else heard similar?

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~ Vader's Corner ~

okay, now my second question:

why should we (or anyone else) care what a bunch of pricks from nebraska or oxford say? F*** 'em. The way people use english is the direction the language should evolve towards.

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The University of North Carolina has finally found a network server that, although missing for four years, hasn't missed a packet in all that time. Try as they might, university administrators couldn't find the server. Working with Novell Inc., IT workers tracked it down by meticulously following cable until they literally ran into a wall. The server had been mistakenly sealed behind drywall by maintenance workers.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited July 02, 2004).]

You just described "affirmative action", or as some people call it "reverse discrimination". Apparently, your skin color is much more important than your skills or education.

-- SavageX

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"...and if you don't like that, then you need to be slugged in the face repeatedly, until my hands are soaked in blood. Have a nice day!"
http://geocities.com/savagex378

Pagewizard_YKS, it doesn't matter who decides what is "proper" English and what is Ebonics. The fact is, if 2 black people walk into a business and apply, both come to the interview nicely groomed and dressed, one speaks "proper" English and one speaks Ebonics, the one speaking "proper" English will more than likely get the job. Why? Because we can understand them.

I work as a waiter, and yes, I hear this crap all the time. And they get pissed off at me when I don't understand when they speak in Ebonics. Or worst, they speak so frigging low that when I ask them to repeat, they scream at me like it's my fault I don't have dog hearing. And yes, I've said that to people.

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I can't think of anything to put here right now.

Ok. Speak however you want. Make up words. Twist grammar. Use incoherent pronunciations. More power. Just don't claim people be hatin' on you if they either can't understand what the hell you are saying, or don't have the motivation to take the energye and time to figure it out if you can't present yourself coherently and consistently.

We need to get Sine in here, he's a very big proponent of this thing called consensus. Freedom of choice, freedom of expression, freedom of speech, more power. But the corrollary to those freedoms is nobody has to give a damn, especially if it's so unneccesarily difficult to understand you.

Guess what, English, like every other language, has standards, it has rules, it has syntax and structure and history. If tomorrow you wish to start saying "You bluebunny her" to mean "I want to go to the store", nobody is going to a; care or b; understand, and you have no place to get angry or affronted at their incomprehension.

Just because the majority of the population, washed and unwashed masses, don't know what those rules actually are, being that they learned English by rote instead of by learning any real grammar and understanding of its mechanics and usage [in my high-school at least we were too busy discussing Diversity and Cultural Sensitivity in English classes to learn anything related to the actual course and language].

If you were speaking German and decided to try to sound tough or underground or hardcore by saying: Ich sein du Durst, that a; doesn't make a damn bit of sense, and b; is incorrect.

Languages and grammar are not some Oppressive Man trying to keep you down and to limit your freedom and self-expression, they are there to communicate and interact and dialogue and pass information.

Try to pass your standard Angelfire.com site through a W3.org validator, and it is most likely going to bury its face in its hands in anguish and unrelenting befuddlement. That's the same exact sort of situation, there are standards and rules there for ease and consistency of communication and interaction. Sure, if you plug it into IExplore it will show up, more or less, but plug it into any other browser and expect people to take it at all seriously, you've got another thing coming. Fill it up with marquis and blink tags and animated gifs and clashing background images that obscure the text, and youre getting fairly close to EboniXML.

Now this is not a wholesale attack or hatin'-ness upon dialects of English or whatever, it's more a response to what's been said about them. You talk about how there is consistency and tradition and syntax and such in Ebonics, however you have failed to present any real examples of that. Aside from 'foo to-be bar' is changed to merely 'foo bar'. Now, yes, in present tense in /Russian/ you /do/ leave out to-be forms of verbs, because there it is grammatically correct and standard, but, sadly this is English. Next time i'm coding something or doing a math problem, i'll remember to simply try '3 4 2' and expect my computer to simply know that i mean '(3+4)/2'.

And don't even try to talk about consistency and syntax when there's common phrases such as "fo' shizzle mah nizzle". Now, in that sentence [and i use that word /very/ loosely here] the first 'izzle' in fact is an 'it', whereas the second 'izzle' is in fact an 'igger'. Let's see if we can't simply use 'izzle' as the ending duosyllable to /every/ word in a sentence, as well as leaving out declensions and conjugations and to-be. Something simple, such as "Massassi has stolen your soul, and it now belongs to Brian". Let's see: "massizzle stolizzle soulizzle, and dawg nah belizzle Brizzle, naw'mean?"

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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"If all those usefull inventions that are lyable to abuse, should therefore be concealed, there is not any Art or Science, which might be lawfully profest."
-John Wilkins, Mercury, or the Secret and Swift messenger, shewing how a man may with privacy and speed Communicate his thoughts to a Friend at any distance (London, 1641)
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

[This message has been edited by Dormouse (edited July 03, 2004).]

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I can't think of anything to put here right now.

Well put Thrawn. Dormouse just put the smack down on his butt, boooy!!!

...ahem... I meant to say was

Dormouse cleverly outwitted Pagewizard_YKS with a very well developed argument.

-- SavageX

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"...and if you don't like that, then you need to be slugged in the face repeatedly, until my hands are soaked in blood. Have a nice day!"
http://geocities.com/savagex378

What the hell? Shut up


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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

It's true in some cases

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

yay. bill for president.

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ILLEGAL PORNOGRAPHIC VIDEOS NEWEST GAMES MP3Z AND MOVIES!!!

Heh, I love Family Guy. You forgot the part where Bill's head falls off though.

Works with sex too. I have a sneaking suspicion that the only reason I'm on my university course is that I'm a girl.

As for the English v Ebonics argument, I'm someone who's been chastised for speaking good English, growing up as I did in North London, where most teenagers completely ignore the letter 't' in their speech. However, I ignored the trendy way of talking because I knew that not only did I sound far less like an idiot on a day to day basis, but I could also expect to be taken far more seriously at interviews and the like.

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/end boob rant

It's true. Sorry man, but it is. They add/subtract to your SAT's and ACT's depending on your race. Also you /have/ to have a certain ratio of black to hispanic to white workers if your company's a certain size. It's how the world works.

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There is no signature

Ubuu, how can you support what Bill Cosby said and yet at the same time get angry at someone for bashing affirmative action?

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EvilMagic.net: Brian's Web Log

there are the west indies where the speech on practically each island is more or less a modern form of english used by the slaves

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"Never look down on anybody unless you helping him up."
-Jesse Jackson

No and no. Standarized test scores are not affected by race, nor are racial quotas required or even legal.

Bill Cosby is not denying that black people can't be held back sometimes, he is just saying that most of the time it is our own damn fault. People need to stop using it as a crutch cause crying about it isnt getting anywhere. You have to try and keep trying till there is without a reasonable doubt that it is obvious someone is denying you an oppurtunity. But there are some instances where trying and working your *** off still doesnt cut it. Affirmative Action is needed in some aspects. We still live in a racist world.

My dad is a professor here at LSU. When he was hired, the Department Head that hired him stuck around long enough for my dad to get situated because the guy was about to leave the department. You know what he told my dad? He told my dad that the board commitee asked why they could not find a white man to be a professor instead of my dad, even if the white professor had less credentials. The guy who hired my dad basically told my father that he has to watch his back because people are gunning for him. In 5 years...I see my dad maybe 30 minutes a day if I am lucky because he has to work TWICE has hard to make sure some *** doesnt look for a reason to get him out. Luckly my dad was hired because he is good..hired by someone who could see behind color, and he didnt need Affirmative Action.

The point I am trying to make is...there are still people who are old and traditional. Having affirmative action at least gives a black person a chance to compete. They still need to work to a level that they can even be considered competetive, I am not denying that. But it some cases, some guys will just hire cause someone is white.

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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

[This message has been edited by Ubuu (edited July 03, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Ubuu (edited July 03, 2004).]

I'm sorry but I simply can't agree with the notion of affirmative action. Race should NEVER play a role in the hiring or the enrollment of a person into a work place or school. It should be you skills/education alone that will get you ahead in life, not the race card. I understand that sometimes if people that grow up in a place like the slums have a disadvantage when it comes to getting a good education or job training. However, affirmative action simply isn't the way to solve that. With so many rappers from the ghetto becoming rich and famous hip-hop icons, clearly affirmative action wasn't needed for them. Like they say, if there is a will - there is a way.

Let's take my mother's past experience for example. Severly years ago, my mother was hired as a word processor for the adminstration of Evergreen Valley College. Years later, during the time when the department decided to let go of word processors, her boss told her in her face that she only got the job in the first place because she was chinese, not because of her skills. Isn't that just sad? Looks like all those years of training as a word processor was in vain because all she had to be was chinese to get the job! Now that is just flat out stupid. So much for capitalism, eh?

-- SavageX

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"...and if you don't like that, then you need to be slugged in the face repeatedly, until my hands are soaked in blood. Have a nice day!"
http://geocities.com/savagex378

Ya know I just might vote for him. Not sure what part he'd be for though. Probably the "Dope Slap Party"

Whoa!! Some one actually racist aginst a BLACK!?!? Don't hear of that too often. Well, your Dad should be rich some time soon, and justly so. Ya no, no one complains at all when universities are racist aginst whites. Thier's alot more of that now days than raceism aginst blacks. So much for Martin Luthor's dream...

Giving a race an extra advantade to get jobs and get into collage is the same as saying that we have to help because thier inferior.

[This message has been edited by Obi_Kwiet (edited July 03, 2004).]

It should never, but it does. It had played a role before Affirmative Action, and it does now with Affirmative Action. Everyone makes Affirmitive Action out to be the devil, when its intent is to just equalize the playing ground for everyone. It does not have an evil intent.


Oh by the way, did you ever think that the reason they hired her because she was chinese is because Chinese have a beautful reputation of being some of the most hardworking and best workers? Last I heard, being a good and hardworker is part of a job skill set, but I could just be an idiot.

Martin Luther is peeing in his grave now. The world will never change unfortunatlye Obi-Kwiet


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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

[This message has been edited by Ubuu (edited July 03, 2004).]

It doesn't have an evil intent, but stupid crap still happens. A few years back, three kids who were applying to Michigan State University were denied their right to be in the University, while they found out that black kids who had gotten LOWER TEST SCORES THAN THEM AND HAD WORSE GRADES had gotten in. They filed a lawsuit, and hey, wouldn't you?


And Argath, whoever told you standardized test scores are not affected by race is retarded. I know for myself that they are. I've heard rumors and speculations of numbers, but they don't sound legit, so I can't say by how much, but trust me, they're still affected.

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There is no signature

Yes, I hate retards like the College Board.

You can even order the raw-to-final score conversion table for each session of the test. Scores are based solely on test performance.

.... I agree with what my man said. But about the affirmative action stuff...WE NEED IT. If there wasnt any, all the small minority populations in these big universities would be even smaller.

Okay ima say what i say next from an Angry Black mans point of view. This does not me i nesscarily agree with all that i say next.


Kids in the inner city that go to these crappy public schools deserve a chance. Maybe there scores arent up to par with the private school kids, but they try. There parent(s) dont have the money to put them in these elite private schools and they have to work with what they have. Most grow up in a 1 parent household and these parents went to crappy inner city schools that didnt teach them anything. Most of these parents didnt go to college and had teenage pregnancies. Sicne they didnt go to college, they have to get a mcdonalds type job and that cant support a family. And the kids in these families are surrounded by others in the exact situations and people tend to be influence by there peers so they are tend to go off in that direction. All the unemployment and harsh living can live to drug (ab)use and then they could become a fiend. So these neighborhoods consist of poor homes, 1 parent households, crack fiends, thugs, corruption, hustlers, etc. Some of these kids turn to a life of hustling as means to "Get By." This kids see his hustlers as people that have what the rich people have and they want that. But the only way to get it in there area, is to slang. So these kids to do it. Most of these kids live in the moment. They know or think that they arent gonna live to be 25 so they live in the moment. They know this life will either bring death or the pen.

Know where did all this lead from? Well you can say the majority of yalls ancestos, who force black americans ancestors to come over to this country and work,embarass,insult,etc. them. None of this would have happened if slavery wouldnt have occurred. So in the 60s, the white man finally give the black man a "piece" of his freedom. Blacks started to move into the inner city were whites were living at the time. White people didnt want to be live with blacks, so they got there stuff, moved out, and created suburbs. They left the black man in the inner city, in the crappiest of crap conditions in the united states, with the crappiest of crap schools. The white people didnt want there kids to go to school with blacks in intergrated schools, so they unenrolled there kids from those schools and made there on schools in the suburbs.

So the white man gives us our "freedom", and makes intregration laws, but they just move away from blacks because they dont want to associate with blacks. They left us with crap and the road the average young black male has to climb is still long. Even today, when white people see too many blacks coming into there suburban schools and suburbs, they unenroll their kids or move elsewhere.

These single black mothers need help. The government needs to help them more. True, some of this happens cuz of our own stupidity, but the hole is soo deep we need someone to come and help us climb out of it. The white man can atleast now acknowledge his wrong doings and try to correct them. The white man put blacks, AND other minorities in the holes there are in today, and has a fill those holes back up with nutrient-filled soil.

Now what i just typed, again, does not reflect what i feel personally. Its jsut the angry black mans point of view.

O and i am not Em Playa


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I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please everyone.- Bill Cosby

Okay, I'll bite. If people in the inner-city want their kids to have better schools, you need to shake things up! Seriously. The schools in innter-cities have been controlled by democrats for DECADES. They promise, promise, promise, but never deliver on anything worthwhile. Stage a coup, if anyone's keeping the kids down, it's them.

It's the same thing here in WA. Everyone cries about how high their taxes are and about how every little thing we do is taxed into oblivion. But they still keep electing Democrats. It makes no sense. Seriously a tax-cutting measure passed by 2/3 (initiative) - that means fully 2/3 of voters support tax cuts, but they still keep voting for Democrats. It makes no sense.

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EvilMagic.net: Brian's Web Log

You do know Tax cuts are what ruined our economy during Bush's term right? They equated to trillions of dollars of deficit. Of course, bush's overall deficit was ~11 trillion dollars.

Argath--I saw nothing on that site approving nor disproving the scaling of standardized tests to fit race. I'd like to see hard evidence that it doesn't, because I've heard from professors and teachers alike that this is a common practice.

I'm not even going to tackle YesSir's wall of words, because after I got past giving it a once over and seeing "So the white man gives us our "freedom"" I had to stop from laughing. We're not "the white man", we're people. God I hate racism, both from a white man to a black man, and vice versa.

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There is no signature

Some of what he said had some truth, but then again by using the typical sterotype of the angry black man I'll have to agree with him being an idiot.


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"Never look down on anybody unless you helping him up."
-Jesse Jackson

i said it from an angry black man's word. Angry black man is a stereotypical phrase for a black man that is mad at white people and thinks that white people are the cause of all black peoples problems and such...which is untrue and true. I hate racism too yoshi. They had a segment on msnbc's donahue about the "Angry black and white man"
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I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please everyone.- Bill Cosby

[This message has been edited by YesSir (edited July 03, 2004).]

How do you feel when you're called the "n*****"? That's how I feel when I'm called the "white man". Just because some stuffy old *******s years upon years ago were prejudiced against you, and some still are today, doesn't mean you can blame white people for your troubles. At all. All it means is you can blame idiots for your troubles.

And btw, the above paragraph is just how I see it. Whenever the word n***** is mentioned in front of a black man, it's his automatic instinct to get angry. I don't blame anybody for doing this--the connotations which the words hold are endlessly cruel. Just likening the two.

And that attitude that you speak of in your post is part of what has to change. If it doesn't, then we've got a bigger problem. Alienation doesn't help things at all. On either side.

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There is no signature

[This message has been edited by Dj Yoshi (edited July 04, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Dj Yoshi (edited July 04, 2004).]

Some admin is going to see that our IPs are the same, and please...I am not YesSir that is my brother who causes trouble.

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In Tribute to Adam Sliger. Rest in Peace

10/7/85 - 12/9/03

way too many generalizations ... thats why yall sound like fools

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"Never look down on anybody unless you helping him up."
-Jesse Jackson

[This message has been edited by st_thomas (edited July 04, 2004).]

Yes, and those cases have already been addressed and well noted that they hold little in common in terms of tradition and syntax and consistency with the American *******ization of such things into Ebonics.

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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"If all those usefull inventions that are lyable to abuse, should therefore be concealed, there is not any Art or Science, which might be lawfully profest."
-John Wilkins, Mercury, or the Secret and Swift messenger, shewing how a man may with privacy and speed Communicate his thoughts to a Friend at any distance (London, 1641)
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

There are other ways to promote education in minority communities that are not affirmative action. Afirmative action was an attempt to fix a foot long gash with a little band-aid. The intent was god, but it just doesn't work

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.