Not so. Try and beat their Christmas sale on laptops. Go ahead. I dare you. Best Buy has the exact same prices as every other store, which is why so many of the subsidiary industries are under investigation for price fixing.

Could have sworn that was the other way around...

Wouldn't it be cheaper for the government to have you secretly killed?

Those of you who disagree with this program:

1. You are able to obtain a job in most industries that doesn't require personal technology. You are able to get a job in a great number of workplaces without needing technical skills. In order to get crippled people working, and thus paying taxes, this program is designed to offer those with disabilities the tools they need to get a high paying technical job that doesn't require physical labor to accomplish.

2. How did you pay for your PC?

A: Your parents bought it?
B: You bought it?

The parent of a child with a severe disability will have to pay 2-3 times as much a normal child costs. (I'm not going to look it up, but it's a common stat written on pamphlets) They don't have the ability to pay for a child's college education, let alone personal computer that will allow them to get a secure job in a higher level of industry: The only place they can work.

Children with disabilities cannot work unless they've gone to college. It's as simple as that. There are NO jobs that crippleds can get and keep to offset the cost of expensive computers, schooling, and other things that are required for them to get a job in the first place. Therefore you've got an entire highly capable group of people that are stuck in a loophole, and on disabilities social security.

3. 3,000 dollars for a PC, up to 6,000 dollars per year for school, and 40,000 dollars of upgrades to a vehicle to make accessible (Which I really don't think should even be included in this number, as I don't know why the government doesn't have a no cost option for accessible vehicles.) After that money is paid, I'll have become a paid citizen, making at least 50,000 a year (I hope) and quickly paying for my previous expenses, as well as paying more money to the government.

4. "Free ride when I've worked hard" is he most annoying phrase ever. You may have worked hard, but you need to ask yourself where you started. Not everyone starts out all fancy pantsed and living large. What about the kids born into poverty? What about kids born into abuse? What about a disability? What about simple neglect? Social Security is designed to save those people. Our society values hard work, and spits on the poor, but our government's foundation is on equality. Everyone deserves a chance. If I've got to give some part of my paycheck so that others can grow up in a privileged world, so be it. It disgusts me how patriotic people can claim to be, then complain about social security, and paying taxes.

I can't afford a computer.

I work a job that barely pays above minimum wage.

I can't afford school.

I'm white and I can stand up.

I don't know your situation, but the government would argue that you've had plenty of opportunities to succeed.

Besides, they care that you pay taxes. Crippleds can't pay taxes without a computer and school. We can't work jobs that require standing up.

The unfair part that I have to agree with is that crippleds end out on top getting more money because of their specialty positions. I still think that's somewhat ok because of the job security at these places. Crippleds are hot commodity at most high technical/specialty job places, as they're almost always harder workers, etc. This is mostly due to the dignity of working and not having to worry about losing your job based on disabilities.

I'm gonna try and not touch this with a 1,000 ft pole, but all I can say is that this is only one reason more why I hate the government. And frankly, even if disabled people tend to work "harder", the money handed out to disabled people at my expense gives them absolutely no incentive to work harder. If I received 50,000 dollars worth of handouts a year for doing jack, I'd do jack for the rest of my life. There's something called marginal productivity of labor that the government should base hand-outs on (or just eliminate hand-outs forever, that would be best).

The only type of hand-out I would somewhat agree with (and this applies to everyone, not just disabled people), is vouchers for schooling, because Kirby is right that education matters most (especially for crips). Rather than the fed paying (i think around 8-10,000 dollars now) for a kid's schooling, hand out a voucher about that amount, and let them shop around for schools and pick whatever one they want. Would create competition between schools, and would create better and cheaper schools. However, this would probably require privatizing.

But no one wants that. Government needs to protect us from schools that would possibly exploit us

Holy crap. You guys are ****ing horrible.

Now, I'll admit there are exceptions, and I have even got some fantastic deals from them (160GB HDD for 10$ :D), but as a rule their prices are sadly behind the market. Kirby's PC could easily be assembled for less than 2000$. Every time I go in there I see some old video card priced at twice what it's currently worth. I don't think it's so much price gouging as it is they are oblivious to the changes in the market.


I think what Kirby's trying to say is that while he doesn't feel he outright deserve this stuff because he's crippled, he is grateful for it and it greatly alleviates many of the challenges presented to him by his disabilities. This is a right and refreshing attitude.

I absolutely believe that we should give charity to people who are in need, after all we have plenty of extra, especially here in America. I really do hate how people are starting to think the charity they receive isn't charity but only what society owes them. That makes me mad. The worst part are the people who get stuff trumped up "disabilities" and are totally ungrateful about they free stuff they do get because they feel they deserve it. It's not anyone's fault that a person has disadvantages, and for that person to act like aid is somehow their right is disgusting.

I'd say that this is indeed a nice trade-off. As Brandon said; people living with a disability will cost more money to give a decent life. In his case, you can think of his wheelchair, the need for transportation, medical costs, possibly modifications to the house or even a different house.

Does this justify such a free PC? Perhaps. The best thing is, though, that disabled people can actually gain more possibilities, rather than inabilities from it. If you can buy something like that with money, why the **** not?

You've obviously never been poor. People who can't work WANT to work. People who have to be helped by the government don't want to be helped. You've got a skewed vision of poor people being "lazy" people. There ARE people who would take advantage of the system. These people are few.

Read what I said about dignity. Retarded, disabled, and poor people tend to be the most valued workers in a number of fields. Do you know WHY? Because they want to be at work. They come into work with a smile on their face, and because of that, are productive. A majority of coffee shops outsource their janitorial positions to retard homes. You know why? No one does a better job. They are determined to accomplish the tasks given to them, and are greatful for their job. They're greatful for some worth in their life.

You have never felt worthless. You do not know what it's like, so I beg you: Don't even speculate. Government programs, or "handouts" (as you like to indignify them as) give people who feel worthless a chance to build self worth, and be counted for something somewhere. Would you take that away from us to avoid giving someone who would abuse the program money? Do you really have that much of a policy crammed up your *** that you'd not deal with the bad that causes so much good?

"Don't give money to people who don't work, they didn't earn it." is the most ignorant thing that I hear daily. You have absolutely no idea what that statement means, and you should be ashamed for making it.

The worst part of it is there definitely are people who are just lazy- infact a great number of them probably are, and they just sit back and collect the "hand-outs" that they think they deserve. The problem is that the government refuses to distinguish between these different poor, and all the free-loaders basically are steeling from the deserving poor. It'd be nice if the government wasn't in charge of charity, but I'm not sure that a cooperation would be any better.

It doesn't have to be about wanting to be compensated for something. For example, I feel I ought to be given free stuff because I rock so hard.

"Here, I'm going to sit in my tower and make stupid assumptions that I can never back up through experience or any other factor and stay on my moral high ground".

Jesus ****ing christ, STOP DEBATING OVER WHY POOR PEOPLE ARE POOR. Kirby is not poor because he wants to be, he's got a disability--that's why the government is putting him through school and all that, because then he can STOP BEING POOR. He's working on building himself up in life.

And this is part of it. You may not agree, but it is. Christ, get over yourselves and your cockamamy anti-welfare bull**** theories you ****ing ignoramus'.

Yoshi is so eloquent and tactical.

These people don't understand eloquence and tact--I think their 6th grade level educations don't even include those words in their vocabularies.

Everyone seems to be aruguing in this thread. I am guessing JediKirby's main purpose was just to BRAG (even says in the title -.-). Everyone deverse to brag once in awhile but not too much.

The first amendment does however allow people to have freedom of speech...and many people take advantage of this.

This thread is the philosophical equivalent of watching cavemen discover fire.

[QUOTE=Dj Yoshi]These people don't understand eloquence and tact--I think their 6th grade level educations don't even include those words in their vocabularies.[/QUOTE]


Aren't eloquents the things with the big tooths? >:D

Anyway, I think a $3000 computer might be a bit much, but I'm glad to hear that they're willing to do all of this for you, especially the putting you through school bit.

The first ammendment has no hold here, the internet is not united states specific.

I hope you like you new PC kirby, Have much fin with it

[EDIT]Since when is :p not the same as :P?[/EDIT]

And watch out for FGR D:

Your internet provider (such as AOL, Charter, Yahoo DSL...etc) is most likely AMERICAN OWNED.

All the stuff you look up on the internet is recorded by your internet provider (Yes even porn. If you look up such naughty stuff, clear history, and maybe throw your computer off your balcony*** Yourr not soo safe.) EVERYthing is recorded. But no one probably specifically looks on YOUR record because there are millions of people that use the internet.


And props to Stormtrooper, one of the few that is HAPPY for JediKirby and not arguing about it.

***Not that I have done such thing or watched naughty stuff.

Indeed. His careful consideration of what people are actually saying is an inspiration to us all. He never flies off the handle over things he hasn't taken time to read.

I haven't taken the time to read? I read everything, and I've read it before, and before, and before. For some reason, middle class-wealthy-rich conservatives think it's their moral obligation to shove their ideals down every other person/liberal's throats at any opportunity given. Don't get me wrong, there's pieces of conservative politics I agree with, but "Hey, let's take away welfare, that'll work!" isn't one of them.

P.S. Obi, you're not clever or witty, so stop trying.

All records are only kept for about 6 months (excluding payment records), and even if it and ISP is american based, the internet is not america, so it's constitution still has no hold.

Jesus, I never sig people, but this one deserves it.

This argument sucks.

We can't work so we deserve things.

Then it turns into;

Well we work harder so we deserve things.




Even then, no one needs a $3000 computer to go to college. Don't even need a computer. You don't even need to go to college. You could go to a 2 year technical school and be just as worthy to society, pay far less, and still make enough to support yourself.

It doesn't even matter what you go for, you'll get the job because of equal oppurtunity. Which really isn't that equal, you'll trump someone more qualified because no one wants a smear campaign on their shoulders, and no one likes lawsuits. I was beat out of an AUTO BODY WELDING job by one of my class mates, a black guy, who was less qualified than I am.

That **** can go to hell. Can't stand or not, I don't care, it can go to hell.

Speaking of saying "black" guy... I am finding my self confused to whether say "black" male or "African American" male. Which one is Politcally correct?

What amuses me is that on MANY wanted posters and crime television, I would see under the description as "Black male" and not "African American" male.

However when people speak on formal television most of the speakers use the term "African American"

...Rob that seems a little harsh to call someone an "it" unless that person is extremely evil and has no soul.
And be careful on how you describe someone, like your class mate, some person might take it the wrong way...

Not all black people are African American, they are black. Just like not all caucasian people are American, they are caucasian

I'm better than kirby, because I can do this, and it cost me 0 dollars.

That makes sense.

You're just being a tease Steven.

The physical qualities of a human does not make that person bigger or lesser than anyone else (not literally...). It is the way one thinks and how wise someone is that determines who's better or not.

My statement is still accurate.

Till one person punches the other in the face.

$3000 is excessive, but relative to the amount that government wastes in spending, we can forgive them for the extra $1500. I'm anti-government waste too, but I prefer to pick battles that don't involve arguing against handicap people succeeding at school.

I'm happy for Kirby too...

Though I still thinking Walking > Free Computer.

I'm in favour of helping out people who need moneys to become contributing members of society. I'm not convinced a $3000 computer is needed for this though, I did a Masters degree in Computer Science and at no point did I need my own computer. The college or university should provide all the physical tools required to succeed at a high level, obviously having your own tools gives you an advantage but you can quite easily get by without them.

So funding for cripples for education and accomodation during education equals big yay.
Funding for providing tools that aren't actually needed equals nay.

Which is why I say that education "hand-outs" should be allowed, because it allows for those people who otherwise can't work a chance to make something of themselves and specialize so they can work. But 3,000 dollars for a computer is just stupid. I don't see how it could help you on the margin more than a 300 dollar computer, let alone a pad of paper and a pencil.

And yes, I damn well stick by this so called "ignorant" thing that is marginal productivity of labor. Does a union worker who sticks a spark plug in a box on an assembly line deserve 35.00 an hour? HELL NO! And it applies to people who don't work. What do they do that is productive? Nothing. That's why educating them is first priority, before an unnecessary computer or vehicle modifications. You get them specialized into something they can do productively, and bam, you have got someone who does what he has learned well. If the government is going to spend anything, they need to spend it on schooling, not 3000 dollar computers. Your outsourcing example is the perfect example. While those poor people didn't go through school, they learned how to do janitorial work well, and do the work completely. You say they take pride in their work, and that's great, because it's good for businesses, and it's good for the people doing the job.

I'm not trying to argue that poor/disabled people don't need help. What I'm trying to argue is that if the government really wants to help, you need to specialize those people and get them educated, NOT just hand out money.

So the next thing you know, you're handicapped and therefor not able to be at school enough to use the tools they provide.

Well, you have to take into account the accessibility of these computers to him, and how productive he is as a result of that, thus how it affects his grades.

Also, if they'd let him build it himself, they'd still get warranties and at a MUCH reduced cost. Honestly, I'll agree that 3000 dollars is excessive, and that the system isn't perfected, as no helping hands system ever will be. But to say some of the things people in here have been saying (and making stupid, unassociated analogies. Because, you know, a unioned labor worker has everything to do with a crippled guy going to college.) is just going too far, and in my eyes, is idiocy incarnate.

Not only that, but I personally think this thread is hardly the place to be making these arguments.