I would recommend that you read up on Rodney Coronado, and realize that he's only the largest example of a hand ful that PETA has funded during firebombing campaigns. The firebombing at MSU destroyed over three decades of medical research records.

Oh lord PETA.
Just hearing that name makes me fear ever working at a food store of any kind.
Also if anyone cares i just happen to utterly dispise the organization. Some people who work for it are nice caring people. But the things that group does...
Argg its better not to think about.

Wait, I don't understand...that site is against PETA...

Edit: Roach, did you bork up that link in your quote? The original doesn't go there.

Wow... I don't care at all. I don't even care a teensy eensy little bit. That's uncharacteristic for me. Oh well.

Boring

I'd rather support the Animal Liberation Front.

Screenshots or it didn't happen.

PETA = meh.

When animals tell me they want rights, I will consider believing that they deserve them.

I just entered all those quotes by hand and didn't feel like going back and getting the original link. Besides, I like my link better anyway.

(The original link, for those that didn't see the original post, was PETA's FAQ page.)

People for the Eating of Tasty Animals

For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three.

Ah here we go.

Game Over. I win.

Edit: Maybe you need some Further Reading?

[QUOTE=Duo Maxwell]I'd rather support the Animal Liberation Front.[/QUOTE]

How about the Coalition for the Liberation of Itinerant Tree-dwellers?

You know, that offshoot of the Liberate Apes Before Imprisoning Apes movement?

If we did not eat meat, the animal population would explode and cover the earth in cows. Don't you remember Diablo? Eat the cows now, before they take up arms!

Also, if it's wrong to eat animals, they wouldn't taste so good. Yummy.

I'm familiar with Coronado. While I think that the types of tactics that he and people like him are using are possibly a bit premature, it's possible that one day those types of tactics will be necessary. I never pretended that any of these organizations do everything right. I believe my initial statement was something to the effect of them doing more good than harm. I continue to stand by that statement.

This debate is only going to end in a philosophical discussion. There are people that think that animal lives are worthless and those that think them as important or almost as important as those of human lives. It's a philosophical matter and a matter of perspective. Many of you were raised eating meat and have been desensitized to animal cruelty. Many of you also believe that you have been given reign over the animals of the earth by your creator. Those of us who do feel something when we see an animal being tortured and murdered often see the other side as unenlightened, and I'm sure that goes both ways. Compromise is a beginning, but our side will fight for the rest of our lives and so will our children to end the torture and murder of creatures that we see as more important to our eco-system than we are. I will never come around to your side for one reason. Animal cruelty isn't necessary for my survival.

When I see an animal being tested, I am reminded of the Halocaust. If we have to do tests on animals, let's end capital punishment and start testing violent criminals in our prison system. We were going to murder them anyways, why not just torture them in the process?


They'll be expecting your check in the mail.


Let's imagine that aliens ruled this planet before humans evolved. Let's also imagine that the animals of the earth were nothing more than food to them and that they had a very large and hungry planet to feed. Guess who wouldn't be here if that were true? You. The ability to speak has very little to do with the ability to feel pain and to suffer. How about we create plump humans that are incapable of communicating their need or understanding of survival and eat them? I'll bet retarded and/or handicapped people taste great.

UltimatePotato: The links that you posted were written by people who are so badly misinformed that I barely felt the need to even tell you so.


Animals continuing up until and after the time when humans "arrived" is proof that your statement isn't true.


Humans, I hear, taste like chicken. I'll make you a deal. If you kill yourself and have someone send me the pieces, I'll eat it meat.

I only support the government controlled ethical boards that you have to consult in order to get a permission to use animals in laboratory and other such experiments.

But I guess civil organizations are ok as long as they don't break any laws (unlike those pesky Animal Liberation Front terrorists and such). People need hobbies, and I suppose trying to better the conditions of animals is a better hobby than buying a boat equipped with a jet engine or something. Still, Finland actually would need more hunters, for example, as wild animals like moose will soon be reproducing uncontrollably, when the old geezers populating the registered hunting clubs will die of old age and few youths join that expensive and literally bloody hobby and way of life.



Human is actually a very strange creature, because among the millions of species it's the only one that thinks killing (and maiming) members of any another species (or even its own) could be somehow wrong. So, if enlightened philosophy says not killing is good, then we are already very high above everything else on this planet, although naturally following that line of thought there is still a long way all the way up.

Most people disagree with their tactics. Not very many people at all agree with them. And they are lobbying ********. I hate lobbyists. They are one of the reasons things don't get done in this country. If congress needs to investigate a matter to find out more about it before making a decision, we don't need lobbyists. Thats why we have comities to find information on a matter.

Excuse me if I'm not going to go out back and dig up my dead dog, or the any of my neighbors yards and dig up theirs.

PETA doesn't exist here and our closest analogies would be the RSPCA (a fairly respectable animal welfare group concerned with stopping abuse and caring for dispossessed animals) and the ALF who you're all aware of for their ridiculous fire-bombing campaigns and other assorted idiocy. Not long ago they released a load of farmed salmon which are likely to interbreed with the local salmon and mess up their natural immunities to disease, they're also largely responsible for the released American Mink population in this country which has devastated our native watervole and some of our waterfowl populations. Few things rile me up like the idiots at the ALF and I could go on for ages about their violent hate campaigns even against people with the most tenuous links with animal testing companies.

MentatMM, you've managed to divorce yourself from the emotional impact of testing on human beings as you advocate it for death row criminals yet you seem incapable of doing so when it comes to animals. I'm afraid you're falling into the charismatic megafauna trap like most animal rights activists. You care about the fluffy bunnies and the cute chimps, but I'm still waiting to see animal rights activists liberating fruitflies or nematode worms from research labs. If it oozes or has too many limbs, you don't want to know.
I think you have to understand that some level of cruelty to animals is a necessary evil for the type of scientific progress that leads to medical advances of any type. It's simple: animal research needs to be done. How do we know what certain genes do? We remove or accentuate them in mice. How do we feed cell cultures for research with serum? We take it from the appropriate animal. Anti-bodies for detecting proteins? Yup, animals.
It's not like all these scientists test animals out of some sadistic desire to hurt something, they do everything they can to make them as calm as possible, a stressed animal is liable to skew your results for one thing.

I also get tired of hearing about how cruel the meat industry is. I've worked in it on a few occasions, on a farm and in an abattoir. All of these animals, in the natural world would be subject to predation by all sorts of predators even if we weren't around. Imagine being chased for miles till you're totally ragged, collapse in the dirt and some pack of wolves start eating you before you're dead. Because that's what happens to caribou, similar things happen to a lot of herd species. What you see on wildlife documentaries is normally sanitized because the producers know that the viewers don't want to watch such a painful death. Instead you see prey being brought down and all of a sudden *scene change* and the carcass is half finished.
Now let's compare that to the human meat industry. The herd is protected from predators, protected from disease and starvation. When it comes to slaughtering time, it's best to keep the animal as calm as possible because panicking it causes the animal to start producing adrenaline like crazy and you change the pH of the meat and ultimately make it tougher. If it's small enough, you zap the animal across the head using a large pair of electrified tongs and it passes out. You slice its neck open and cut the carotids and the animal never wakes up again. In the case of cattle you use a captive-bolt gun, and if you've ever seen it done the animal is dead before it hits the floor.

... What about plants? You are horrified at the thought of someone eating your precious cows, but you don't care at all for living things that don't make sounds when they die? And there's no way you're going to start talking to me about "torture" and "pain." Planting corn and other stock plants in such close proximity forces their roots to contain themselves. This is similar to the close proximity of cows.

Google isn't being helpful, but there's a bug that harvests another larger bug just like we do cows. They feed them, keep them healthy and alive, and then eat the biggest ones.

You have a guilty conscience, and that's your problem. Don't have the balls to eat a cow? Don't. You better damn well leave me alone when I'm scarfing down a burger, though.

PETA is a terrorist organization that is romanced by western culture. Being unable to eat meat and live an "all natural" lifestyle is dependant on those of us that don't. The western culture allows this lifestyle, and that's it. Animals aren't humans, so we should kill and eat them. Yes, I'm a racist.

hmmm... if you cut out the part on ending capital punishment, youmightbe on to something there.

seriously, i eat meat. im going to keep eating meat. yes i do understand that animals are treated horribly in the meat business, and yes i wish they werent. now, if you want to provide meat in a way that the animals are not tortured and is still comparable in price i will buy all my meat products from you, till then sorry but no dice.

House loves Steve McQueen, but he'll still put another human life over that of little Stevie.

PETA may have started out with good intentions, but they have become twisted and insane as the ograniztion has grown. Any organization that creates a publicity campaign that equates chocken farming has more concern for getting their name out there and shocking people rather than doing a lot of good. Local, grassroots organizations are far more effective at things like daving animals and they don't push the public away with extreme views.

Look its this simple.
Get AIDs? Well PETA doesn't care! They would rather have billions of people die then some ****ing bunny!
Given the choice i would kill EVERY SINGLE ****ING BUNNY ALIVE if it was able to cure all the cases of AIDS.

Why would i be so "cruel" you ask?

It's this simple- Humans are the only sentient species on the planet. And if the animals had a choice thay would kill us all and eat us. Why? SURVIVAL! We need to survive to! So dammit im gonna say to hell with PETA and continue eating my beef and testing rat genes.

I would rather survive then some damned little lab rat.

Hey i've got an idea! How about you go out into the Amazon and try to survive! Maybe then you'll figure it out. That or the carnivores will eat you.

Could you please stay away from serious and or passionate discussions?

You aren't funny. You aren't clever.

WE DON'T LIKE YOU. WE WON'T LIKE YOU. NOTHING YOU COULD DO OR SAY WILL MAKE US LIKE YOU OR IMPRESS US. STOP TRYING.

Somehow I think you're wrong. And what's worse is you based your entire argument off this completely asinine assumption. All one would have to do to prove you wrong is find a single person who is a member of PETA who would rather see one rabbit die than billions of people.

Well then yes, there are many people in PETa that are just mislead nice caring people.
Sorry i got carried away. Still i really hate that organization.

I was attempting to be sarcastic. I was trying to make the point that torturing and murdering humans is illegal because we as humans can relate to their pain and suffering. However, all animals that I'm aware of feel pain when being tortured and murdered, yet many humans are somehow incapable of caring. I understand that many scientific advances have been made due to animal testing, but that doesn't make it right. It wouldn't make the suffering of the Jews right if some of the things done to them during the Holocaust were used to advance science either. I'm not saying that we should stop animal testing today. That wouldn't even be possible. However, we should sure as hell be trying our hardest to phase out animal testing that causes pain and suffering to the animal, one stage at a time. I refuse to believe that alternatives aren't available or won't become available (3D models and things of that nature are already beginning to replace animal testing in some fields) in the future. The truth is that animal testing is more convenient at this point. Unfortunately, convenience isn't a good enough excuse for many of us.

Oh, and I agree with your point regarding insects and many animal rights advocates not caring about them. However, I believe that there's a more immediate threat when dealing with that of animals, and these types of struggles should be taken one step at a time.


Many animal rights activists that aren't vegetarians agree with that statement. However, predation by other animals is part of the natural order of things. Humans, in the opinion of many, are going beyond the natural order of things with factory farms and other such monstrosities. I realize that many of you may think that factory harms are natural, but I sure as hell don't.


One, there is no evidence that suggests that plants feel pain. Two, the consumption of plants is natural. I believe that the consumption of animals, to an extent, is also natural, but we're one of the few or only species of animals that actually has a choice. I'm not against the consumption of animals. I'm against cruelty towards animals. If you want to go out and shoot a ****ing deer in the head, skin it, and eat it, then by all means, do so. I just don't like the mass-marketing of meat that is the result of torture and cruelty towards animals.


Free-range and cage-free organic meats have drastically dropped in price over the years. I traveled the United States extensively last year and every Whole Foods Market that I went to from Kentucky to Arizona had it available.


Not eating meat has nothing to do with having balls. I ate meat until I was 25 years old. I grew up in the country and went to school with and hung out with people that farmed animals. When I was eating meat, despite knowing quite a few vegetarians, they never harassed me about it. However, every single meat eater that I've met since I've become a vegetarian has literally harassed me about not eating animals on a regular basis. The reality is that you folks see vegetarianism as a personal attack. It's sort of like close-minded Christians seeing the mere existence of Islam as a threat. I realize that most of you are rather young and are probably referring to teenage vegetarians that are most likely just following a trend, but I'm referring to tried and tested vegetarians. Most of the things that I've mentioned in this thread I have never said in real-life because there would be a backlash from my family and friends.


That's possibly one of the most right-wing, misinformed statements that I've heard in weeks. The government of The United States Of America doesn't list PETA as a terrorist organization. Being able to be live a vegetarian lifestyle is depending on both vegetarians and meat-eaters alike. Many cultures allow a vegetarian lifestyle. There are vegetarians mentioned in the ****ing bible. Oh, and if you want to talk about balls, go kill, skin, and eat an animal yourself and quit making other people do your dirty work so that you can disregard the realities of the experience.

I once read a PETA site that denounced agriculture for the express reason that harvesting killed the small animals that lived under the crops.

Yeah.


PETA is what happens when you breed boredom with ignorance. Hell, look at their list of notable supporters: Alicia Silverstone? Anna Nicole Smith? Dolly Parton? Pamela Anderson? I see lots of mildly-retarded blonde celebrities with too much money and free time. What I don't see are credible biologists, veterinarians or conservationists.
And also they support the Animal Liberation Front and also the Earth Liberation Front, both of which are terrorist organizations that do intelligent things like 'liberating' farm fish into the wild where they not only can't survive but they breed with the wild fish and produce a whole generation of fish that are too fat to swim upriver.

After all: if you have lots of extra money, no brains and nothing to do, what else is there for you besides inventing your own pet cause? And can't find any credible research or studies to prove your case? Haha, lie about it! Because if it feels right it probably is!

I almost wish someone like Mentat would hit my beautiful leather coat with some spraypaint, so then I would at least have a plausible case for pleading temporary insanity when I pin the little **** to the ground and empty the can of spraypaint into his lungs. I hate these goddamn idiot hippies. Why can't they do something more productive like... I don't know... proving their claims or maybe lobbying like normal human beings, instead of crying for attention on the streetcorner like intellectual prostitutes with intellectual herpes?

You hit the nail right on the head, and I'm not even vegetarian. It's just something I've noticed over the years. Meat-eaters tend to be offended by others' personal decision to abstain from meat; even if the vegetarian leaves the meat-eater the hell alone.

No need to get so defensive, guys.

i would rather just eat it, yeah many people who eat meat wouldnt be able to stomach killing skinning... ect. but then most people werent brought up in an environment where you do that yourself. if they were im sure they would have no problem with it.

Yeah, get real. Why don't you build your car yourself so that you aren't so ignorant of what goes into it? Why not build your own house?

We have society for a reason. You can't specialize in everything; you can't do every job imaginable just for the experience. In modern life, we enjoy modern conveniences largely done by other people because it's efficient.

I know you probably weren't talking to me, but I'll reiterate:

My dislike for PETA has nothing to do with their members' personal beliefs. It is entirely because they're a bunch of worthless waste-of-carbon attention whores. For starters, most of them are only in it so they can feel like they're better than everybody else. When they try to do 'good' it's so misguided that it ends in catastrophe. When they lobby or appeal to the public it is an absolute fiasco, like standing outside of KFC and handing out buckets of blood. That isn't proving a point, that's just scaring children and being a prick.

They crave attention like a more colorful version of a teenaged goth, they're not talented enough to do performance art professionally and they're not interesting enough to get people to pay attention to them unless they get right in your face. It's disgusting. These people are one dynamite vest away from being ecoterrorists.

Way to comprehend his statement. He never said vegetarians are terrorists, nor did he claim that they are evil in any way. Pull your head out of your ***. He said that PETA is romanticed terrorism. Seeing as they have burned down labs, murdered people's animals, and stolen people's property without being labeled for what they are, I'd say he hit the nail on the head.

As you can see from the above quotes, I never stated that he claimed that vegetarians were terrorists. He did claim that PETA was a terrorist organization. If anyone failed to comprehend anything, it was you.

Actually i think the FBI has some of PETAs top people on the terrorist list thing.
Could be wrong though.

I don't expect him to actually do this, which is part of the reason I made the statement. I was merely pointing out the ridiculousness of his statement that insinuated that vegetarians don't have any balls. Surely, if not eating meat is a sign of being feminine, then hunting, skinning, and then eating an animal would be the ultimate form of masculinity.

ro·man·ti·cize (verb) :to make romantic; invest with a romantic character


ro·man·tic (adjective) :
1. of, pertaining to, or of the nature of romance; characteristic or suggestive of the world of romance: a romantic adventure.
2. fanciful; impractical; unrealistic: romantic ideas.
3. imbued with or dominated by idealism, a desire for adventure, chivalry, etc.
4. characterized by a preoccupation with love or by the idealizing of love or one's beloved.
5. displaying or expressing love or strong affection.


Even if he was seriously trying to label them as a terrorists, the United States government does not control the definitive definition of a terrorist.


Edit: for good measure:
ter·ror·ism- n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

PETA fits the bill.

Good god, yes! So few of the people who squak the most are even educated in their cause. They just jump on the bandwagon with everyone else.