Mmm.Ground beef tacos....

Your thinking is frightening. You're taking the stance that it's a company's fault that they lost something in a fire bombing by a terrorist organization. Congratualtions. You have been brainwashed and ceased think for yourself.

Oh, and as to your hard drive analogy, that would only work if someone burned down your house.

Was there any doubt of that already?

Avenger, you must have misinterpreted what I said, because you just agreed with me almost exactly.

Yes, we were all thinking it.

So what you're saying is that new drugs should be used without any sort of testing?

Or are you saying that there shouldn't be any new drugs, because humans all have magical psyonic powers and can cure themselves with the power of thought, meditation and homeopathic medicines and are therefore not necessary?

Or are you suggesting that science is a big and scary thing and we should cease all scientific research because things you don't understand scare you and because sometimes cute and fuzzy things get hurt?


I don't know what drugs make you think lab rats fart rainbows and sunshine but I want some. Do you get a free sample for joining PETA?

Good lord i hope not.

Sort of, at least with the habitat part of what I was say. The popluation and resource cycle was related in a sense, but doesn't necessarily have anything to do with loss of habitat.

So what if they aren't natural? I can't tell if that's really your argument, and as much as I dislike pointing out logical fallacies, that's basically appeal to tradition.


Where's the torture? As previously pointed out, modern slaughterhouses are quite humane. If for no other reason than the humane ways are quick and efficient, and efficiency in a business means more profit.


Why isn't it justifiable? There are many, very good reasons to place most animals at a lower value than humans. There's an assload and a half of science to backup how much more intelligent we are than other animals. Here's an easy example. A four month old baby is a lot smarter than a rat, and at that age we aren't certain if a human is even sentient yet.

But I suppose you'd tell me that intelligence isn't a good way to determine the value of life? Then what is? Without it, I would be forced to put an amoeba on the same level as a human.

Ya know your immune system probaby just killed thousands [millions?] of small bacteriums.

No no no, Emon. You don't understand.

The crux of their argument is that intelligence is the best way to gauge the relative worth of an animal. The issue here is that the PETA folks are using their own as a benchmark.

Sad but true.



I guess, from PETA's point of view, it would be okay for us to hunt and animal and start eating it while its still alive because that's the "natural" way things work out in the wild.

Anything with "slaughter" in it isn't human, IMO.

>.>

Manslaughter...

Yes, the argument from nature does not work. We've known this for millenia.

Replying to stuff from 1st page.

3D modelling? I assume you mean computer modelling of biological systems? Our computer models are only as good as our knowledge of the system in the first place. Whatever drug you want to develop, you'll probably run it through the best computer models available to you to thin out those drugs doomed to fail and potentially harm a test animal, but the computer model can never match actual testing on a live animal. All in all, it leads to fewer animals being used in the process which ultimately is cheaper. But even to advance our knowledge in order to create more accurate computer models, we need to do animal testing. It's also necessary for the basic science that is the basis of most of our medical advances. If you want to research how a type of kidney disease works, you look at post-mortem results from human victims but you also raise mice with the disease and run the necessary tests and dissections on them, there's no way without prior understanding that you could use a computer model.

Everything possible is done to reduce the pain visited upon test animals. As a particularly ironic example (and a moronic one for that matter), there is a lot of protesting going on against the expansion of a primate testing lab in Oxford, affilliated with the university there. While the animal activists threaten the buiders who work on site (who have to wear facemasks to protect their identities in case of reprisals), they fail to realise that the reason the facilities must be expanded is that in order to come into line with new EU regulations the holding areas for the primates must now be large enough to allow them to stay in troops as they would in the wild. In a sense, these activists are actually hindering the production of more humane care for the animals.

What the heck is a "natural order"? Is it your arbitrary position on what you consider to be "natural"? And why is something that isn't "natural" automatically bad?

Yes, the argument from nature does not work. We've known this for millenia.

I predict this to be the point where MentatMM disappears from this thread forever. I hope I'm wrong, this is fun!

Unbeknownst to Massassi, Mentat uses a computer constructed of twigs and leaves, and his Internet connection is a network of sparrows.

I have the exact same model, except my network is wireless.

And used of African Swallows.

My internet uses a snail.
Specificly 300 snails that relay information.

No one cares about your internet.

There might be the last "I'm being attacked because of my beliefs" bail out post.

So much like SF_GoldG_01.

SF_Gold had to ask to be banned.

Actually isn't he unbanned now?

We missed your month-long one.

Suffice it to say, December was a really good month for Massassi.

VVV Edit: November was a really good month for Massassi. VVV

I was banned on november...

Doesn't change the fact it was a good month while you weren't here.

No SF_Gold or TE.

Twas a good month indeed.

Yeah, Rob and Echoman didn't have to spend every waking moment waiting for them to post so that they could show their absolute superiority.

Even *******s need vacations.

But anyways, I'm going to go WALK somewhere. With my LEGS THAT WORK.

Or maybe I'll go get something off of a top shelf, because I CAN REACH THINGS ON HIGH SHELVES.

...and that was completely without class.

...and pretty childish.

Kirby gets more girls than Rob.

Ouch, rob hurt my feelings.

Gladly, massassi has a slew of moral police!

You can reach things on high shelves. You do have legs that work.

Yet somehow, I still think of you as less of a man than Kirby. Get a life dude.

Also: I like burgers. Burgers taste ****ing good. If you don't agree, **** you, I'm eating me a ****ing cheeseburger. Tonight. And, just for good measure, I'm going to use some hairspray, deodorant, and hell a little bit of some cleaner product. You know why they test this **** on animals? Because it needs to be done, and I don't want it done to me. You know what I say? I say we replace all the test animals with PETA members. Maybe then they'll realize why we do it to animals, and not to humans.

THAT MEANS I HAVE A BIGGER WEINER, ROB.

lol

Wow.

We joke like this all the time. You should have noticed by now.