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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → To invert, or not invert?
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To invert, or not invert?
2007-01-17, 2:03 PM #41
Originally posted by happydud:
Yes, but when you look up, you can see up.

Therefore, when you want to look up, move your freaking mouse up!


Freaks.


Doesn't work. If I move my mouse up, the ball loses contact with the table. :v:
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2007-01-17, 2:07 PM #42
Originally posted by Glyde Bane:
Since it's an FPS, the cursor would be where I'm looking, so I guess my muscles contract in order to get up to My Computer, thus pulling back, in order to look there.

You loooose


No, the cursor is the direction you're facing... where the crosshair is pointing.

In the desktop analogy, looking at my computer doesn't mean the cursor is there :P
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2007-01-17, 2:25 PM #43
I've always used inverted.
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2007-01-17, 2:28 PM #44
Originally posted by TheJkWhoSaysNi:
Made as much sense as the muscles in the neck argument :P

Anyway, it's completely unintuitive compared to normal mouse behaviour. In any other mouse operation, moving the mouse up moves the cursor (in this case the crosshair) upwards.

The unintuitive argument doesn't really work. I know that I (and presumably everyone who voted for inverted) get thrown off if I start to play a game and find the controls aren't inverted, because for us it's more natural for the controls to be inverted.
2007-01-17, 2:46 PM #45
for a forum and community founded on Jedi knight (A game made back when inverted was the default) a lot of folks have voted for non-inverted.
"Jayne, this is something the Captain has to do for himself"

"N-No it's not!"

"Oh."
2007-01-17, 3:03 PM #46
Originally posted by Michael MacFarlane:
I always invert, mouse or console controller. Standard feels completely unnatural to me.


Same here.
Pissed Off?
2007-01-17, 3:04 PM #47
Originally posted by LividDK27:
The unintuitive argument doesn't really work. I know that I (and presumably everyone who voted for inverted) get thrown off if I start to play a game and find the controls aren't inverted, because for us it's more natural for the controls to be inverted.


It is unintuitive compared to normal mouse behaviour, you cannot argue against that.
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SaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTh
eJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSa
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2007-01-17, 3:11 PM #48
Invert my joystick (on the rare occasion that I use one), but leave my mouse alone!
2007-01-17, 3:27 PM #49
Inverted mouse is just wierd. I always invert for consoles, though, I can't have it any other way.
DO NOT WANT.
2007-01-17, 3:32 PM #50
Originally posted by TheJkWhoSaysNi:
It is unintuitive compared to normal mouse behaviour, you cannot argue against that.


Yes I can, by saying that ingame mouse behavior is far different than desktop mouse behavior.
2007-01-17, 3:49 PM #51
No it's not. You're moving a central point around a 2d area. Just in the game the area appears to move instead of the mouse pointer.
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SaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTh
eJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSa
ysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJ
kWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSaysNiTheJkWhoSays
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2007-01-17, 5:02 PM #52
Uhm, last I checked, the crosshair never moves ingame.

Your view does. Which, as we stated, is more like your head than a mouse pointer on a 2d plane. Thanks.
2007-01-17, 5:11 PM #53
To look up I move my eyes up, to look down I move my eyes down.
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2007-01-17, 5:38 PM #54
Am I the only person here who thinks it's stupid to argue one way over another?

"Oh I prefer using my left hand to write"
"Fool, right hand is the natual way because I'll present a bunch of seemingly logical nonsense to prove it!"
"Fool, left hand is the natural way because I'll present a bunch of seemingly logical nonsense to prove it better!"

Some people prefer inverted like some prefer to write left handed. Others prefer non-inverted. Trying to argue either way is stupid.
2007-01-17, 6:06 PM #55
No, you're not. I voted and left it at that.
Pissed Off?
2007-01-17, 6:30 PM #56
Originally posted by Emon:
The only time I'd invert was for aircraft or similar control, but usually I use a joystick for that anyway.


dot.
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2007-01-17, 6:51 PM #57
I like inverted. Probably because I played Descent too. Anyways that sort of "flight control" scheme seems natural to me. Move the mouse away to look down. Pull toward to look up.

Interestingly, Metroid Prime 2 has inverted as the default, but they CALL it non-inverted (there is an invert option, which, when turned on, makes pressing up look up etc).

2007-01-17, 6:59 PM #58
I invert for flight games. Sometime I use standard for flight if it's not space, something about the ground being close makes me think differently, and I need it standard.
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2007-01-17, 8:02 PM #59
Originally posted by The Mega-ZZTer:
Interestingly, Metroid Prime 2 has inverted as the default, but they CALL it non-inverted (there is an invert option, which, when turned on, makes pressing up look up etc).


This reminds me of Duke Nukem 3D. Choosing the "invert" option would have the effect that most people associate with being non-inverted (pushing mouse up looks up, down looks down).
2007-01-18, 2:07 AM #60
Originally posted by Cool Matty:
Uhm, last I checked, the crosshair never moves ingame.

Your view does. Which, as we stated, is more like your head than a mouse pointer on a 2d plane. Thanks.

Meh, think of it as the crosshair pointing at things like the mouse pointer does.

Incidentally, how do you inverters cope with games like Doom 3 or Prey when the crosshair turns into a mouse pointer on some surfaces?
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2007-01-18, 6:34 AM #61
Originally posted by Spork:
Incidentally, how do you inverters cope with games like Doom 3 or Prey when the crosshair turns into a mouse pointer on some surfaces?

I've not played either game at length, only in small doses, but yes, it is mildly confusing.
2007-01-18, 7:56 AM #62
Originally posted by Michael MacFarlane:
Doesn't work. If I move my mouse up, the ball loses contact with the table. :v:


Clearly, you need to rejoin the 18th century and get a LAZER MOUZE.


Or one of those awesome Gyro-mice. Soooo cool.
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2007-01-18, 8:39 AM #63
Originally posted by Spork:
Meh, think of it as the crosshair pointing at things like the mouse pointer does.

Incidentally, how do you inverters cope with games like Doom 3 or Prey when the crosshair turns into a mouse pointer on some surfaces?


I don't "cope". It works fine. When the arrow appears it acts like windows, and thus, click click done.
2007-01-18, 9:00 AM #64
Can I ask everyone, when you look up do you feel the sensation of your muscle pulling back or your head lifting?
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2007-01-18, 10:16 AM #65
I've never inverted my mouse, even in flight games (mostly spaceflight sims).

If I used a joystick I'd invert it, or a gamepad for flight games, but never for the mouse.
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2007-01-18, 10:43 AM #66
I don't think I use inverted, but sometimes there has been games where I've had to choose inverted because controlling would have felt really odd otherwise. Odd stuff.
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2007-01-18, 12:29 PM #67
In Freelancer, which is a flight game with mouse control. The non-ineverted controls seem very intuitive because the ship follows the cursor. I play all games with this kind of mind-set, but i've never had any trouble playing inverted for any game which requires it (other flight games, console FPSs).
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2007-01-18, 12:35 PM #68
I invert any game that allows me to control the action with WASD and a mouse. My mind naturally gravitates to this, and using non-inverted controls screws me up.
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2007-01-18, 12:45 PM #69
Originally posted by Cool Matty:
I don't "cope". It works fine. When the arrow appears it acts like windows, and thus, click click done.

Woah no way, if it acts like it does in Windows but your view settings are inverse then wouldnt you get stuck in a perpetual loop unless you positioned your mouse exactly on the start of the surface? Or am I missing something?

Eg my crosshair is below the interactive mouse surface and I want to get to a button at the top of the surface. I move my mouse down to move my view up, but as soon as my crosshair hits the Windows-esque surface down = down, so if I keep pulling my mouse down what is now my mouse pointer heads down off the surface and back to where it was a crosshair controlling my view but now down = up so the crosshair heads back towards the surface until down = down again....
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There is no spoon.
2007-01-18, 1:00 PM #70
Inverted is patriotism
whenever any form of government becomes destructive to securing the rights of the governed, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it
---Thomas jefferson, Declaration of Independance.
2007-01-18, 1:07 PM #71
I don't understand all the argument about whether inverted does or doesn't make sense. It's like trying to talk someone out of being left-handed.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2007-01-18, 2:06 PM #72
Originally posted by Spork:
Woah no way, if it acts like it does in Windows but your view settings are inverse then wouldnt you get stuck in a perpetual loop unless you positioned your mouse exactly on the start of the surface? Or am I missing something?

Eg my crosshair is below the interactive mouse surface and I want to get to a button at the top of the surface. I move my mouse down to move my view up, but as soon as my crosshair hits the Windows-esque surface down = down, so if I keep pulling my mouse down what is now my mouse pointer heads down off the surface and back to where it was a crosshair controlling my view but now down = up so the crosshair heads back towards the surface until down = down again....

So you stop and react to what you're looking/aiming at, rather than get stuck in some perpetual loop. If it's designed in a way that makes it impossible to aim at something like that, knowing that a goodly number of people are using inverted controls that are included in a game as standard, then it's bad design.
2007-01-18, 3:27 PM #73
Originally posted by Michael MacFarlane:
I don't understand all the argument about whether inverted does or doesn't make sense. It's like trying to talk someone out of being left-handed.


It's actually been scientifically proven that left handed people naturally gravitate towards being Nazis and Nazi sympothizers.


It's a fact.
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2007-01-18, 4:09 PM #74
Ran across this today, couldn't resist posting it:

http://addictinggames.com/mousemadness.html
2007-01-18, 4:12 PM #75
Originally posted by Spork:
Woah no way, if it acts like it does in Windows but your view settings are inverse then wouldnt you get stuck in a perpetual loop unless you positioned your mouse exactly on the start of the surface? Or am I missing something?

Eg my crosshair is below the interactive mouse surface and I want to get to a button at the top of the surface. I move my mouse down to move my view up, but as soon as my crosshair hits the Windows-esque surface down = down, so if I keep pulling my mouse down what is now my mouse pointer heads down off the surface and back to where it was a crosshair controlling my view but now down = up so the crosshair heads back towards the surface until down = down again....


It takes a second before the mouse arrow starts to move in the little GUI windows. Thus, no such problem.
2007-01-18, 4:21 PM #76
Originally posted by Aglar:
Ran across this today, couldn't resist posting it:

http://addictinggames.com/mousemadness.html


Ooooo! That game frustrated me very quickly:P
2007-01-18, 4:26 PM #77
That was easy! I just turned the mouse upside down ;)
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2007-01-18, 4:26 PM #78
Originally posted by Gilgamesh85:
Ooooo! That game frustrated me very quickly:P


I did fine until I got to the level with the moving part, that made me quit.
2007-01-19, 9:20 AM #79
Inverting for consoles makes more sense than inverting for mouse, in fact it makes more sense than NOT inverting.

that said, I use inverted mouse because the first FPS I ever played was JK and it was the default methinks. It's a more immersive setup anyway ;)
2007-01-19, 9:49 AM #80
Inverting made sense in JK because of the third person perspective - when you pulled back, Kyle leaned back.
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