I'll begin this by saying that as multiplayer programmer on JK2:JO and JK:JA, I've been trying ever since the Quake3 source release to get Ravensoft to put the engine code out for both games. Generally the best I've been able to get from anyone is that they can't due to the LucasArts involvement.

As such, it seems like the most prudent thing would be to petition LucasArts concerning the release of the Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II engine code. That is a simpler scenario, due to the involvement of only one central organization. Once that is done, it becomes a much more reasonable goal to work on getting the JK2:JO/JK:JA code released. In addition to that, a lot of things could be done with the source release of the original Jedi Knight, particularly in the realm of faithful ports to other platforms. I personally would love to get my hands on it and do some homebrew console ports.

I'm sure attempts at this have been made before, but if we can actually get enough support on this petition, I think I may be able get contacts for the right people over at LucasArts so that they can read it and get the ball rolling. So, I hope you can all offer your support by signing and getting this petition seen by others in the Jedi Knight communities.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/jkcoderelease/

Thanks,
Rich

It won't happen. Sorry.

Pics or it didn't happen.

Again?

Sorry, but these things don't work. No dice!

The thing is, when did LucasArts release anything free like that in the past?

It's LucasArts after all.

I did expect this kind of negative reaction. However, I'll put it simply. If you add to the petition, there is hope that it can work. If, on the other hand, you just post that it's impossible, that's basically like telling a crippled man that he's not going to walk again. It's a lot more productive to try to help than to put him down.

What about emailing the the former Jedi Knight programmer?

You worked on JO Hydroball? Fun mod

It's been tried before, to no avail.

Why do you want the source code to a near decade old game? You are better off just doing the whole thing from scratch or modifying Quake3 or some other engine than jockeying around in some hacked up code.

Although I do not blame you for not wanting to use Q3 since it's all in C. *shudder*

It's also worth noting that the industry is undergoing a cultural change. Even faceless companies like Capcom have begun changing their business model, and taking direct input on their decisions from communities and fans. Business managers have begun to see that the cultural representation of a company is also becoming even more important, based on the expanding influence of the internet and public perception. It's presently at a bit of a peak, and a lot of organizations are making previously unheard of changes in the way they deal with user feedback as a result.

Now is a great time to petition LucasArts with something like this, all things considered. If it's going to happen ever, it's probably now.

That said, it's all up to you guys. I have very little sway by myself, and a community effort is required to get anything done. There are, however, so many factors that change regularly, that not attempting it now merely because it's been attempted before is rather foolish.

I tell JediKirby he's going to be a cripple forever like all the time.

Doesn't seem to get him down.


The game source code isn't going to be released. THERE IS NO HOPE of it being released. A petition DOES NOT equal hope. If anything it indicates a need or a want.

Play and edit something different mister programmer man.

Everything you used to reach that conclusion was based on previous events which no longer have any legitimate bearing, and your own speculation. Please keep that in mind.

Even though I don't expect it to happen, I signed.

Not like it's a big commitment on my part.

I'm with Rob.

Nice thought, but it won't work.

You could at least sign, jerkbags.

At least give it a shot people, god.

You might have better luck over at JKHub.net Everyone there hasn't given up editing JK. It'd be easy for you to make a project page and post news and whatnot, and thus get on the main page.

Even if there was hope, there are better ways to go about this besides an internet petition. Who is honestly going to pay any attention to a website where half the signatures are internet pseudonyms and no way to verify the accuracy of any of them.

A real physical petition, or even a letter writing campaign would be more likely to get a response, I think.

[EDIT] Also, perhaps try using a website that doesn't ask me for money after I sign the petition?

I agree with DS. A quick and dirty mailLEC button would be easy to set up. I'll host it if you need a place.

Zerg rush their email inbox.

Yeah, in the past I went so far as to set up forums and I tried to gather people there to support this kind of effort. I went to the Massassi IRC channel back then, and was met with nothing but this kind of bitter negativity. It seems like the community crushes its own efforts before LucasArts would even have the chance.

I am open to cooperating with any ideas you guys have that would be better than a simple petition. Just send me a PM on the forum here if there's anything you want to discuss privately.

Except for the parts where you know, the games source has been used in recent history. (For atleast one handheld game)

I'd agree with you.


Releasing old engines isn't cool anymore, because they can be used quite easily for mobile gaming. DURR.

You have to get LOTS of people to sign it before a multi-million dollar company like Lucasarts even begins to take notice. I mean we talking thousands, perhaps tens of thousands. There is not that much interest in Jedi Knight anymore. I'm not being a jerkbag, Vinny, but I'm just trying to say that your efforts are better spent. Let me ask this, what would you do with the source code?

I still say that you should attempt to write it from scratch. Some programmers here attempted it and it did show promise, but most flaked and project fizzled.

Edit: Jesus you guys are quick with that post button!

Firstly, it would be pretty hard to find someone that even has the full source anymore.

Secondly, why do you even want it? Sith2 is still around somewhere and, although incomplete, is probably exponentially better than the Sith engine. If you're good enough to think you can read through the original JK source code and modify it, why not look at Sith2 and help complete it? Or as mentioned before, rewrite it from scratch.... it would probably take less effort and time than getting the original source.

It took about 10 seconds to sign the petition. Even though I don't believe it will work (or care), at least I supported a community member.

According to Joncy, JK's source is likely to be filled with alot of :downs:

Didn't someone post here about 2 years ago, saying that a guy who worked for LEC came to their school to make a presentation, and that person had a laptop with him that had the Sith Engine source code?

I signed it but it won't do any good. We'll just have to steal it.

I think it was...Cool Matty?

Equally important to modifying and porting Jedi Knight (if not more-so), is setting a precedent for LucasArts to be open with their source code. Past, present, and future games would benefit if they were to budge on this simple issue, and of all the LucasArts games to attack on that angle, I think Jedi Knight is the one.

As for all of the "it would be easier to write from scratch than to get the code" posts: That is a ridiculous claim, probably made in ignorance of all that is involved in such an undertaking. Even for someone who knows how to write a complete solid game engine from scratch, the process of matching existing behavior for things like physics, collision, AI, weapons, and all of the magic numbering involved in the process is generally going to amount to months upon months of effort, and even then, you are probably never going to get something that feels 100% faithful to the original. Refer to what happened in the Duke Nukem 3D community before 3D Realms came around and released source for a good example of this.

Say this is an impossible cause if you want, but that's certainly not helping anything.

I signed it. But from what I've seen from Lucasarts, they pay little attention to what the fan community actually asks for. They do afterall, own the Star Wars franchise, one of the biggest on the market.

We should just mug an LEC coder. MBS, ASSEMBLE!

We're saying it would be easier to to write it from scratch because of the number of times people have tried to get the source. Every time it's tried, LucasArts will not give it up, and they still won't. They're making money off it yet and they're not going to give something away for free when they can get people to buy it. The comments weren't meant to be taken literally.

It's a valiant effort, but the time and energy will be wasted in the end.

Exactly. Also why be "100% to the faithful?" The netcode is crap. The lightsaber sucks. The graphics are DirectX 5. If you do it yourself, you can take all the things you didn't like about JK and toss them out and put in things that needed improvements. Also you forget the name of the company Lucasarts. He's a money-grubbing SOB.

whats wrong with C? :saddowns:





ba-da-bang baby. anyone else notice when sith2 project started moving from just loading vertex data to working on actual gameplay, the whole project died?

Well, as far as me actually working on it, that is the difference. I'm not willing to devote months of my life to re-creating the game, but I am willing to devote a couple weeks to making a nice port.

I guess that beats most of you guys, who are unwilling to spend 15 seconds signing a petition.

It's archaic, convoluted garbage.

uh... what the hell? Archaic convoluted garbage? Is that what they're teaching you these days in school?

No wonder I'm such a poor programmer. I spent all those years writing in C, not even knowing what archaic, convoluted garbage it was. I've been such a fool.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I don't want this thread to turn into some kind of ridiculous programming language flame war.

DONT TELL ME WHAT I CANT DO

I'm so mad I'm going to blow up a submarine

It's very fast and practical, but from a linguistic standpoint it's garbage. Usually they teach C++, Java or occasionally C# these days. For most SE courses here the implementation is up to the groups, and it usually ends up being something like Java or C# for the sane people, C/C++ for the insane ones and Perl for the stupid ones.