you could start by spelling the country correctly.

I am not biased against religion.

I'm biased against hurr and clouded judgement.

These are not mutually exclusive...

Why would you care? You're not allowed to grow more of one than you have now.

Use the money to build mosques instead.

Good point. I bet there's 20 churches in Japan to every mosque.

Except that is a religion that is bad.

Except that it's not. There are those who practice extreme versions of the religion who are bad, kind of like fundamentalist mormonism.

Why not build synagogues then, if you don't like mosques?

I believe Islam is bad but that doesn't mean I believe every Muslim is bad. Any religious group is more than welcome to try to spread their religion, in my opinion.

Maybe not Christian, but uneducated oaf is totally true.

I think Islam is bad because, as I've said before, it is inherently violent. In many countries in the Middle East and Africa, massive attrocities are committed in the name of the religion and they are encouraged by their holy book. Many point out the violence encouraged in the bible but it pales in comparison and there are no instances of massive attrocities being conducted and condoned in the name of the religion in this age.


So, yes, it is a bad, violent, destructive religion. One that preaches the goal of convert or die. I also consider the best example of a manufactured religion and its existence validates the concerns of many atheists.

Define "this age." Because there were a few atrocities caused by Christianity in the 1900's.

How is Islam any more inherently violent than Christianity? Scripture in both bibles suggests we kill, maim, and torture our children, family, friends, and enemies if our respective God's deems it OK. The only difference is that fewer Christians still practice these teachings in their bible, citing some semantic reason that they're no longer applicable. Just because Muslims don't pretend their religion is only right when it's easy to follow doesn't mean that the religion is inherently violent where Christianity is not.

Um, most of what goes on in the Middle East is geopolitical now, not religious.

If you think Islam is inherently violent then you know nothing about it. Islamic fanatics are not really Islamic, because Islam doesn't teach that.

Please tell us you're baiting us Wookie. Please.

Feel free to point them out. I would admit that the Holocaust was allowed to happen though I think it would be bogus to say the Nazis were acting with good, wholesome, Christian values as their motivation.

I knew by responding to the notion regarding mosques I would stir up a hornet's nest. I guess now many of those coming in to the thread and belittling Christianity will now start to defend Islam. Ironic.

Hardly. Both religions are illogical and harmful to the overall progress of humanity, in my opinion. But the fact that you're claiming some kind of moral superiority in Christianity is just stupid, and you should really be ashamed of yourself.

I am baiting only in that I am expressing my politically incorrect viewpoint on the matter. My view truly is that Islam is bad. If anybody is so immature that the fact that that is my opinion causes flames to be spread then there is nothing I can do about it. I am equally entitled to my opinion as anyone else here is.

Once again you impress us with your wonderfully insightful knowledge of religious scriptures and doctrine.


(You don't see me making broad statements about Islam doctrine. If your only sources are hostile and antecedent, try not to act like you know what your talking about. )





And just where do you get off making moral judgments like that? How is your arbitrary opinion any sort of universal moral standard? At least religions claim some sort of transcendental authority, weather they exist or not. Even if he would be wrong, I could respect a moral determination from a follower of Zeus more you. At least he would not judging people based on something more that emotional reaction, and he wouldn't be hiding it all behind a pretense of being non-judgmental.

You have people all over the world stoning, hanging, decapitating, multilating, dismembering people in the name of Islam. In a scale that far outnumbers anything now being done by Christians. I am in no way ashamed that I believe Islam to be extremely dangerous and Christianity not to be.

It must be fun to live in such a black and white world like Wookie. Where a religion can be simply bad and the bad guys are just bad and the good guys take care of them. It's kind of like when you're 7 years old and you're playing cops and robbers. Good guys and bad guys..

Death camps ran by priests in Croatia during the 40's. The Catholic church killing thousands of Buddhists through starvation and eventually death camps in Vietnam all in the aim of preventing a "god-less nation" from being formed in S. Vietnam. Clergy members executing Tutsis looking for refuge in Rwanda, often forcing them to watch the cross as they were executed, or were transported en masse by the clergy from churches to Hutu camps for execution during the early 90's.

I don't claim to be any kind of religious scholar (And if you think my thread about Zeus is indicative of my knowledge of scripture, than you're full of yourself), but I do know just how violent both pieces of literature are. You're kidding yourself if you think the bible is peaceful.

Build wells with crosses on them, Everyone wins!

it must be fun to be heavily medicated

The entire old testament is full of violence. A whole lot of it, as a matter of fact.

Also, the Church committed a whole lot of atrocities in the middle ages as well. There is a very violent history there.

How many sociology and anthropology courses have you taken?

I was just typing up a paragraph to defend myself, but that says it far more effectively.

Many atheists draw upon moral relativity to some degree, or at least the idea that morals evolved over time with species. For example, murder is counter productive to species development, if a community of prehumans stop killing each other, they thrive. Such morals, or at least something suggestive of such, is probably in our DNA.

Some primates, I believe chimpanzees (at least), show genuine empathy towards others, even ones not of their own kind. They have also been shown to help others with no reward to themselves. They had a chimp and a man in a room together, and the man was reaching for a stick (a tool), but in a position unable to grab it. The chimp walked up, grabbed the stick and gave it to the man. With absolutely no reward for itself, other than gratification. They have no bible to tell them to do this.

We get our morals not only from evolution and genetics, but from society, which is influenced by human behavior. We don't need a universal source for morals, we just use ones that make sense based on our history.

Look, this is an argument, you can't make appeals to authority and education here. If you can explain it, do it, if not, don't.

You can't just squirm out of a philosophical argument by appealing more credentials. This is the time to back them up, not hide behind them.



But that in and of itself imply no real right and wrong. The best (or worst) you could say about any actions from genocide to finding cures for diseases, would be to to describe what effect they have on the species as a whole. So when you say rape is wrong, all you're really saying is that that probably doesn't positively impact the species proliferation. Your just describing cause effect trends, effectively equating wrong with downward, and right with upward. In the end, none of it really matters.

Exactly.. how many classes he's taken has just about nothing to do with anything. His argument will either stand on its own two legs are collapse.

I haven't taken many classes in those subjects either. What he's saying is that your claim that my moral relativism is "judgmental" is absurd considering the fact that I am simply making an observation about the history of and affect religion has on society. It's my opinion, but it's hardly a judgmental claim based in emotions.

Obi, I'm not making an appeal to authority, I'm asking if you're actually uneducated or if you've taken the classes and choose to ignore the info provided.

Emon has a pretty decent summary of where sociologists believe morals came from. But frankly, you need to take a class, or we would need an entire thread dedicated to just that topic and allow members to take at least a day writing on the topic. It's far more complex than just "well, murdering is bad because someone dies."

The fact that you can thumb through the Bible yourself and decide that specific commands in the Bible are morally wrong shows that not all of your morals came from the Bible.

Wow, this sounds familiar. Where have I seen it before? Hmm...

KEEP THE MOSQUES AND THE GODDAMNED NEGROES OUT OF JAPAN. THOSE FRIED CHICKEN EATING MALT LIQUOR DRINKING JUNGLE BUNNIES ARE NOTHING BUT FREELOADERS TRYING TO RAPE WHITE WOMEN.

what? i'm just voicing my politically-incorrect opinion. just because i was brain-damaged from a redneck upbringing and right-wing indoctrination doesn't mean i can't say it.

Does anyone else feel pain in their heart (physically) when threads turn bitter? It just hurts....

What?

The thread was dumb as rocks to start with. It hasn't lost anything.

Yes, but it doesn't hurt me as much as knowing that there exist moral darknesses in this world such as Buddhism, Shinto and Taoism.

:downs:

A few weeks ago I was flipping channels and came across what at first I thought was a mountain gorilla with a strange face. I soon realized it was an enormous chimp. He was very aggressive and he was off with a little group of males walking outside of their teritory. They came across a napping chimp and completely unprovoked beat the living hell out of the poor creature. I don't remember if he survived or not. Doesn't really have much to do with anything, just felt like relaying the tale.

Look, I don't think Muslims are necessarily bad. I'm not sure that my current opinion will always be my opinion. I used to have a belief that Islam was simply going through its "middle ages". I'm not sure that I will back down from my current position because research has shown that extreme Islamists correctly cite the quran when they use it to justify their positions and actions. I also have some experience with Islamic culture now that I didn't have before.

I'm not just saying the things I say because I'm some right wing nutjob. Trust me, most of us would all probably get along just fine if we ever met. I just usually don't feel that trying to give lengthy explanations of positions on internet is really worth the time and effort. I used to do that but I tired of it years ago. So now I make short posts that end up being more inflamatory then they would otherwise be.