Sorry rob, you can argue it all you want, but ive seen too many dumba**es put regular in their cars that require high octane that say the same thing as you, and end up with problems. Quote on friend, quote on.

NO STREET RACING FOR ME THOUGH.
Street racing is for those people who like to KILL PEOPLE .

pretty much the same here.

I don't roll through stops, I'm always within 5 mph of the limit except in very rare cases, I always wear my seatbelt, and I never run RED lights. Not wearing a seatbelt and running red lights are absolutely ****ing stupid. There's no point. Your hurry isn't worth your own life, or somebody-****ing-else's. Rolling through stops and speeding are slightly more defensible, but in the long run, really pointless and a bit unsafe.

You sound like Confucius.

You can find me readily tearing *** up California freeways at about 85 - 90 MPH. I sometimes get bold and throttle it up to 100+. I don't stay at that speed long because I just have P-rated tires.

Sometimes I race my coworker who also has a tC. He mostly wins though. People are afraid to ride with me.

Follow me around all day. You'll find a bunch of people behind me going "god damn it". I swear to you: full and complete stop, behind the stop sign or line at every stop sign or red light, even for a right turn on red. I also always check every direction, always signal a lane change and always look all around me before I do it. I always turn into the correct lane, too, I don't left turn into the outside lane, which it seems like just about everyone defaults to.

I know, people make fun of me all the time, but I like knowing that if someone does manage to hit me, itll be entirely their fault.

I used to regularly go 70-75 on the 55mph highway system where we live. The flow of traffic is about 65. Then I got pulled over and let off with a warning, probably due ghettoness of my car. The ticket would have been well over 200$. Now I keep it around 65.

I do the same thing until I feel threatened and then my driving goes bat **** insane.

It's some French Connection ****. People hate riding with me because I am too safe of a driver, but then when one of their ******* friends (usually her boyfriend) wants to make trouble they scream at me to stop doing stuff.

Except all of that is more safety and common sense than doing a rolling stop. A rolling stop assumes you already looked both ways and made sure it was clear. It's very possible to make that level of decision without completely stopping.

It'd be their fault regardless unless they had right of way, but you could make that mistake even stopping completely.

>.>

as does flying out the ****ing window.


i won't let people ride in my car without seatbelts on

You don't know what you're talking about. At all.

Hardly like ever.

I dunno.

Jamming more air into your cylinder to make more splosion sounds like a needless performance boost to me.

Sure, it's possible. It's also possible to go 150mph and swerve in and out of traffic without hitting someone...doesn't mean it's the right way to do it.

Sometimes people don't seem to realize that accidents happen when you DON'T see a car coming. Rolling the stop sign gives you less time to check all directions, and if you do notice something, you have to change your plan and stop. If you plan on stopping anyway, you're safe no matter what, THEN you can evaluate the situation and continue if appropriate.

And in regards to who is at fault: if you roll a stop sign, you're at fault. You ran a stop sign. If you both rolled/ran a stop sign, you're BOTH at fault.

If other people want to drive crappy, that's fine. I'm well aware of that and on guard for it...and secure in the knowledge that if someone hits me, it probably means a free new car for me.

Owowowowowowowowoowwow!

A. I don't know how you slow down for a stop sign, but I generally use my brakes. Which means I don't need any "preparation" to stop, because I'm already in the process of doing so.
B. If going 5mph through a stop sign doesn't give you enough time to judge what is going on, you probably shouldn't be driving a car.
C. On a further note, you should be stopping and counting to three also! After all, you may not have enough time to properly analyze the situation if you go immediately after stopping! :hurrwords:
D. Good luck proving that you also didn't run the stop sign. Or even better, in the interests of "innocent until proven guilty", good luck proving he did run the stop sign.
E. Anyway, if you even make a complete stop and then go, you can still hit someone. You're still at fault, you hit them. It's just like the "rear-end collision" rule. Doesn't matter the circumstances of how you hit the guy ahead of you (slamming on the brakes, getting pushed up from behind, etc), you're still at fault.

Besides, I'd be willing to throw out that you are probably more of a risk at causing collisions than those who roll through a stop sign, because you aren't following normal flow of traffic.

I had a guy jump in front of my car while i was partially in an intersection making a turn. 99% sure he was attemping to scam me

The traffic laws exist so that everyone is on the same page and has a good idea of how everyone else will behave. "Flow of traffic" is groupthink bull**** invented so that people can feel okay with breaking the law. Stop signs mean stop and check, yield signs mean roll through and check. The end.

I didn't intend my post to be accusatory, but you have gotten a little hostile and now i feel like this is necessary:

A. You're intending to roll the stop sign, but prepared to stop. I am saying that I am intending to stop, and prepared to go. Do you honestly think that your way is safer?
B. If you think that 2 tons of metal is something to take unnecessary risks with, maybe YOU shouldn't be driving.
C. I don't count to three, because I take that time to actually do what is intended, which is thoroughly check each direction and make sure no one is coming, and if they are, to make sure they stop at the stop sign.
D. That's fine, but at least I have the truth on my side.
E. I'm not talking about me hitting someone. I'm not going to. Someone might hit ME, but I will not hit THEM because I come to a full stop and would never accelerate towards someone after that...barring a lapse in attention, which is my whole point. You can't expect the unexpected, by definition.

Driving your car is the most dangerous thing you will probably ever do in your life. Why would you take unnecessary risks? It's not hard to just do it the RIGHT way, instead of the EASY way. I mean..

Easy way
pros: save time, effort
cons: higher chance of getting maimed or killed

Right way
pros: less chance of getting maimed or killed
cons: takes more time, effort

Is there really any question? Maybe it's just the future safety professional in me, but it only takes a second to be safe, and the consequences of taking shortcuts is more than a slap on the wrist. Like I said, if you want to drive that way, that's fine, I'm aware of that and on the lookout for that. But personally, I take my own safety and the safety of my passengers very seriously. I also take the law, ESPECIALLY ones created for my own good, very seriously.

I'm not trying to accuse anybody, I'm just explaining my own viewpoint, and I don't appreciate anyone trying to belittle it.

Some of us can appreciate decent cars. Mine came turbocharged from the factory, thankyouverymuch.

You can't not speed on the highways around here. Going the speed limit on I-95 is just begging to be hit. We go 85 in a 65, and we're still bumper-to-bumper.

Or you could go the limit and let other people overtake? You shouldn't even be bumper to bumper anyway.

It doesn't work that way on 95.

You will get run the **** down because everyone is being fishstickz.

I won't even go on 95, I'd rather go through the ****ing city.

Jealous!

Re: Premium fuel. Cars that specify that premium fuel is required is because the engine is tuned for high compression ratios. Octane isn't how much "power" the fuel can generate but it is how resistant to detonation it is. Compression generates heat. If you throw 87 in a high compression engine, it will detonate and cause knocking & pinging. I romp on the gas pedal on my tC and I use 87. I don't hear any knocks pings (yet).

You create a hazard on the freeway (y'all call them carriageways, yeah?) then. People have to slow down or pass your slow *** which then gives a greater chances of wrecks. If you MUST go < SL then stay way the far right. Don't be doing that **** in the fast lane!

95 by me isnt so savage. I mean sure, if youre doing 65 in the fast lane people are going to be pissed. However it is possible to get into the right lane and be fine

Because your car is fuel injected, and the injectors are clean.

The most damage you can do from knocks and pings is probably fouled or burned spark plugs. Easy problem to fix.

Motorway. You're thinking Single/Dual-Carriageway which are other types of road.


That's where you're supposed to be anyway.

I regularly go 10 km/h over the speed limit. I drive with my cruise control everywhere to make sure I don't speed more than that. You can do 10 over right by a cop and they'll never stop you. It's pretty much just the expected speed around here.

I'll admit to rolling (at a very low speed) through the odd stop sign a few times when it's extremely late and there's absolutely no traffic around.

That's it for me.

With most cars the faster you go the more optomistic the spedometer is, so your spedo might say you're doing 105km/h but actually you're only doing 101-102km/h. It's highly unlikely that any cop would book you for doing 1 or 2 over the speed limit.

Rob, you're wrong, I'd recommend you read the below article it explains it better than I ever could:

http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articles/Engine/Detonation/

Cool Matty are you actually arguing this? Seriously?

Bob is 100% correct, you are 100% incorrect. You can justify your reasoning for rolling through a stop sign all you want, but you are still, 100% breaking the law. That's it, no arguement to it.



This show your ignorance here. Yes, you probably do have enough time to check. Bob probably has enough time to check, I have enough time to check. But sometimes everyone has a "duh" moment when they just aren't thinking clearly, and that's when accidents happen. You say that someone who doesn't have enough time to check going 5mph shouldn't be driving, well guess what. A lot smarter people than you have said that yes, you don't have enough time to properly check, AND that kind of driving behavior means YOU shouldn't be driving a car.

Saying it's ok to roll a stop sign because you feel you can check in time is like me saying it's ok to get behind the wheel of a car after having a beer, because after all, if you can't drive a car after one beer, you shouldn't be driving anyway.

I'm not inclined to believe anything from street rod stuff, as I recall they are advocates of polishing intake ports SO DEH GASSUS MOVE FASTER.

Confirm/deny

Please quote where I said it wasn't. (Hint: I didn't.) As such I don't think you should bother arguing this anymore since you can't even pay attention to the "debate" at hand.




Except, it's not even close, because if everyone drove drunk like they do rolling through stop signs we'd all be dead. Please continue to put words in my mouth and make ridiculous claims. It really helps to make your point! Not.

rob, they are right. if your car needs premium it needs premium. most newer cars will adjust electronically so it doesn't cause problems running regular in it, but if you have a turbo you need to be running premium.

I don't believe he ever mentioned having a turbo.

Groupthink bull**** backed up by logic, you mean.

Hell, by the same token, it's perfectly legal to go ~45mph on a 65mph highway. Do you? Why not, it's safer in terms of reaction time! No, instead it's much more unsafe because people expect others to continue to drive at the speed limit. There's so much evidence to this that they've been placing "minimum limits" on highways. There's even mention of it in the driving handbook about flow of traffic.

I think they have a better idea of how to safely drive than you do, bub.

In terms of gauging how other drivers will respond to your driving, yes, I do. I compare it to using turn signals. When you use turn signals the driver behind you knows what to expect. Seeing as the majority of the population does roll through stop signs, that is what drivers expect.

Is it still their fault if they hit you for stopping? Sure, absolutely. But I try not to drive in a manner that causes wrecks, even if it is legal to do so.

Oh, and let's not forget that at 5mph your stopping distance is ~6 feet, including reaction time. That's ridiculously easy distance to cover for. As I said, if you can't anticipate that sort of distance while driving, you probably shouldn't be. Seeing as you make far more dangerous moves just driving on the highway every day.

Unnecessary risks? By the unreasonable reasoning you're providing, none of us should be driving. Driving on highways is apparently just asking to be killed by your definitions of safety.

And I do that too, except I do it while moving. If for some reason I can't judge it in time, then I stop. It's not like you have only milliseconds to decide this when you're going 5 miles per hour. For crying out loud, a fit person could outrun the car going at that speed.

Oh, and lets not forget it would take you over 4 seconds to roll completely through an average subdivision intersection at that speed, so imagine just approaching the stop sign at that speed! It'd take you over 5 seconds to go a couple car lengths towards the stop sign. If you are honestly trying to tell me that you cannot judge the situation of an intersection in less than 5 seconds, maybe you need to re-evaluate your driving ability.

You missed the point entirely. I'll drop it anyway.

And what I am telling you is that, barring a lapse in attention, neither would I. You can't expect the unexpected, regardless of how much time you have to judge the situation. Stopping does not give you an appreciable amount of extra time to avoid such collisions. This is the point I am trying to make. The point is, unless you are truly RUNNING a stop sign, you will be going slow enough that it doesn't matter.

Who said it has anything to do with easy? For one thing, it's much better on gas mileage and wear on the engine/brakes.

And again with the unnecessary risks. Driving on the highway is an unnecessary risk also. You don't have to drive on the highway. It's certainly more dangerous. So maybe everyone should stay off the highway also? That's your reasoning.

This is totally wrong.

Doesn't take much more time, it does however do absolutely nothing for safety and hurts your car more.

Whoop de doo. Let's get off that "high-and-mighty" horse for a moment and bring you back down to Earth here. You are not suddenly a model citizen for obeying one of the more inane driving regulations. It is not making you any safer. Hell, even the police themselves can't bring themselves to obey the letter of such a law. It's a rare sight indeed to watch a "Public Safety Officer" aka Policeman actually obeying the stop sign law to the fullest.

I'm not trying to belittle your viewpoint, I'm trying to show you mine. Personally, I couldn't give a damn whether you stopped completely or not. But you should at least be realistic about what it means. These are real-world situations, not idealistic situations.

Also, isn't there a clause somewhere about how you are supposed to obey the law at all times except wherein it is unsafe to do so? (The idea being, for example, that you are not to cross a double-yellow line, but if there's a person who jumps into the middle of the road, it would be unsafe for them and you to continue to follow said rule. You avoid the collision.) I could go on a stretch and apply that to the "rolling through a stop" situation but I think I'll just leave it here as an amusing aside.

I skimmed over both Bob and Matty's arguments, I can say I am behind Bob on this one.

I skimmed over anovis' reply, and came to the conclusion that anovis is a dumb.

*****stickz!

I'm generally a bit over the speed limit, 5-10 on typical streets, 19 on the highway (Cops here in quebec do not generally arrest anyone below 120 km/h. They might but its unlikely.)

Aside from that, I rarely break any other laws.

The one time I really broke the law was about 5 years ago when I took my Saturn SC2 up to 200 km/h. I wouldn't do that again, especially not on quebec roads. The state of the roads is just too horrible. Not to mention that its too dangerous and I don't like putting other people's life at stake.

I didn't say you claimed not to be breaking the law. I asked if were arguing it, thinking very well in my head you knew you were breaking the law, yet you were still arguing your point.



I didn't say anything about anyone being drunk. I said one beer. Just about anyone here can drive just perfectly fine after having one beer. You, me, Bob, Rob, NoESC, Anovis, anyone. My point is, just because we can, doesn't justify breaking the law in doing so, and that it's ok to do it. Much like you seem to think that doing a rolling stop is OK and just as safe as coming to a complete stop, when common sense, logic, and people who do crash scene reconstruction tell otherwise.

Yea big deal it's better on gas and the engine. Tell that to the cop when he pulls you over for rolling a sign.

Yea, a rolling stop isn't really that big of a deal. It's probably not that much more unsafe, but as the saying goes you can never be safe enough. But your jumping on Bob about it, when he is clearly, no doubt about it, correct. You telling him he's wrong about having a lower chance of getting "maimed or killed" when one comes to a complete stop at a sign is just flat out dumb man. Just accept the fact you're breaking the law and you don't care, no big deal. But don't sit there and try to tell Bob you're being just as safe (or safer) as him, because you're not.