Alright, I just read the showcase forum... Now, What would be the difference for doom 3 and half-life 2 for editing? *heres my thoughts.*

Doom 3:
User Friendly mapping envionronment.
Basics of what to expect.
Coding?
2D use of solid object. Litterally! SWEET!
AI?

Half-life 2:
Alittle more advanced mapping, But state of the art envionment graphics?
Unkown of what to expect?
Coding, Valvue is well known for allowing any kind of scripting into moding the hl series.. Anything is possible..
2d Use? I wouldnt know..
AI? Supposibly better then its predicessors..

So, Basically.. I may go for half-life because the coding is better to work with? But it would be alot more work.. So.. Hmm... Any ideas? And this is a candid look at what I gathered from past information on the games.. Not first hand but candid thoughts..

But my answer would be half-life 2. Doom 3 maybe for some styles of modding. But whats your answer/thoughts for a good online mod for what good game?

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I might try my hand at Doom 3 editing, and make some levels that are truly scary, because I am still a little dissapointed with the scare factor in that game

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ZGPC

What's 2D use of a solid object?

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Banks and banks of humming machinery! I've never seen so many knobs. We're going to have to do something, Charlie! Try pushing that button there. No? How about that one? No, not that one either. I know! I'll try pushing this one. Hold my hat will you? Good fellow.

Sprite models or bumpmaps on actor models, I'd guess.

I'd say Doom 3 will probably have more source available, like to its editor, Valve is pretty closed doors on that kind of stuff. At least they used to be. Zing!

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

http://halflife2.net/index.php?page=article_vs_editing All currently released information about editting HL2.

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Moo.

Oh, heh seriously though, I'd vote for Doom 3 since it's not some old **** crap BSP format with ugly static lighting. The only concern I'd have is how good the AI can be, and how much you can change it for SP and MP. Probably enough though.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

doom3 seems to be alot better.. I think I shall try it, while.. HL2.. is more coding envionronmented..

If ya really want to make a mod, HL2 is the one.. Doom is for SP use Im thinking..

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Maybe get Half-life 2 first to be entirely sure? Maybe try Doom3 editing?...

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The Massassi JO/JA Single Player contest info (or something of this matter. Just smile.)

Levels--Doom.

Mods it's a tie.

While Doom 3 has great moddability, HL2 has great backing already from the HL community. We'll just have to see.

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HL2's engine would seem to be more versatile. Source supports all sorts of things like displacement mapping, spectacular AI, physics, vehicles, lip syncing, extremely diverse facial animations, and a load of other things. The only thing that impresses me about Doom 3 is the lighting, and that doesn't affect gameplay enough to give it a significant advantage (And I mean modability there, not Doom3's actual gameplay.) Granted, I don't keep track of Doom3 enough to know all of it's abilities, but what I do know doesn't impress me enough to make me think its modability will be better than HL2's.

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Moo.

The fact that it uses OGL means that mods can take the graphics to an INSANE level. There's almost no limit. Also, the engine supports monstrous poly counts, and of course, lighting.

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[This message has been edited by Dj Yoshi (edited August 07, 2004).]

OpenGL has nothing to do with it...you can do the same thing in HL2, you can write your own pixel shaders. And keeping in mind that HL2 uses PS2.0, Doom 3 only uses 1.3.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

so... I knew this game was gonna SUCK.

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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.

The two aren't exactly mutually exclusive...like, really...

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"Look at me! I'm Tracer! BLAHBLAHBLAH!"

-MBeggar

What, Tracer? Everyone knows you can only edit ONE game.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

It's really hard to take on two completely different editors at the same time. Thus you choose which you want to use.

And I didn't know you could write your own Pixel Shaders for HL2. Interesting.

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Not really, considering both are very much the same. Their both brush based and both inspired by Quake. Worldcraft is like Radiant, but crappier, DOOMEdit is like Radiant, but better.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

That would be insanely hard to code for...

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Four dimensions, four fundamental forces... coincidence?

I started playing around with the Doom editor last night, and it is fun stuff Ive got the basics down and have some tutorials to look through. Screw HL2

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ZGPC

I'm still trying to get the hang of it. Mainly, moving aroung in the 3d preview is a little different. Also, for some odd reason none of the textures load up in DOOMEdit. But overall, it seems like a good editor.

You don't know that. HL used a modified quake 2 engine by id.

They made the Quake 2 engine THAT fugly?

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HL was leaps and bounds ahead of quake 2 in technology. They used the engine as a base, and basically created a new engine around it. Calling it the Quake 2 engine is nearly insulting to Half Life. Same thing happened with Soldier of Fortune.

And don't worry, the source engine is capable of things that Doom 3 can't even dream of. Just because you have not seen much dynamic lighting in HL2, doesn't mean it doesn't look good. And calling Doom 3's graphics realistic is flat out rediculous. It's pretty, sure, but it doesn't look REAL at all. The graphics are meant to create mood, and they do that very well. But if I want realistic graphics in a first person shooter, I'll take the Pepsi challenge with Half Life 2 and Doom 3 any old day of the week, and Half Life 2 is going to come out on top, because the game isn't about mood. It's about action. And if you want immersive balls out action, you need a realistic look. But if you want to scare the piss out of someone, you need mood. Case in point, I'll mod Doom 3 to the fullest of my abilities, but only until Half Life 2 comes out.

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I figure that one day I'll either be famous, or in prison. But I guess if I'm going to prison, I should probably try to do something that would make me famous anyway.

1. Half-Life is based off the Quake I engine, Soldier of Fortune is Quake II. This is a common misconception because Valve simply made many of the modifications to the Quake I engine that id also did for Quake II.

2. kyle90, actually, it's not that hard to code. Medal Of Honor: Allied Assault had very realistic oil drums, complete with high/low pressure depending on the height of the bullet hole, and kept track of oil volume. But it's not so easy if you want to do anything else than an oil drum.

3. Half-Life 2 is not capable of real dynamic lighting. Well, okay, Valve likes to say it is, they have lots of moving lights and lots of nice player shadows, but there are no real dynamic shadows on the world. It's still using outdated BSP technology and static lightmaps. So something like a day/night cycle is not possible. Doom 3 offers dynamic shadows down to the smallest detail, like a flashlight, which is only practical for an added realism touch and mood. The lack of a good day/night cycle, however, does really kind of suck for gameplay (enter STALKER). For the fancy stuff, HL2 is capable of more shader effects than Doom 3 (unless id patches that), and lots of fancy effects like light blooming (one of my favorites). The biggest reason I would edit HL2 over Doom 3 is the AI and materials. The breakable objects are just awesome, and the AI is (should be? har) really awesome. Not that you wouldn't be able to code it into Doom 3, but that's not feasible for everyone.

Anyway, just check out both. Personally, I'm going to be getting into Doom 3, HL2 (Man Worth Ten Grand!!), and STALKER the most.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[This message has been edited by Emon (edited August 08, 2004).]

I'm no expert on either of the two games, and haven't played either of them, but from what I see...(screens, trailers) HL2 blows doom way out of the water. Heck, doom3 can't even knock down a steel drum as cool as HL2, or how about a whole pile of steel drums, or a building... there's your level editing right there. I also remember reading something about some testers, or whoever, see valve's new "Hammer" editor in action, and how fast and easy it was to create a level. The only thing I see doom has on HL2 is their lighting and that's all.

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I am _ Ace_1 _ , and I approve this message.

Actually, Doom 3 has physics just as good as HL2's. I think it was coded in house by id, and that's very impressive, although there are one or two bugs in the ragdoll which need to be patched. One is where if you have a body laying on another body, then destroy the lower body, the top one will not fall until it is impacted by another object, like a bullet. This leads me to believe the physics are only refreshed whenever an object is struck; which is nice and fast as opposed to per frame, so all they probably have to do is make sure they refresh it when any touching objects change. Other than that, it's just about as infallible as the Havok physics in Far Cry, HL2, Max Payne 2, etc. Perhaps even better.

And as for making a building fall down, you can't really do that in any of them...You'd have to fake it no matter what. HL2's materials just makes it easy to have a section of wall that falls apart, or a sign that breaks up easily.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

sounds good to me

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I am __Ace_1__ , and I approve this message.

[This message has been edited by Ace1 (edited August 08, 2004).]

Ehh, I know, you could but it probably won't be without faults. Gabe likes saying stuff that isn't necessarily true, remember? *cough*

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

But none of that affects GAMEPLAY. I'm not sure about the majority of gamers out there, but I for one prefer gameplay over shiny new graphics. I mean, sure, good lighting can affect gameplay to an extent, but not nearly as much as some of the things the Source engine is capable of.

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Moo.

What's with the question marks after a non interrogative sentence SilentSavur? Sorry, it just gets hella annoying. I would say HL2, just because I'm biased that way.

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Member of the Minnessassian Council

Actually, on DirectX 9.0 class hardware, Doom 3 uses its ARB2 render path which makes use of ARB_fragment_program which is equivalent to PS2.0. It's used to make some sweet looking heat waves in the game, and you can make your own fragment programs (.vfp files). Hmmm...in fact, I see what looks like an ambient light fragment program(http://home.earthlink.net/~elkgarden/ambientLight.txt)...

Also, it'll be interesting to find out what the Exp and Cg render paths are since I don't recall JC mentioning them before...

Well, even better!

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Cow--it may not, but it depends on what you're doing for modding.

Also, that's a building made out of WOOD. Do you know how few of those there are in real life? HELLO STEEL, HELLO BRICK.

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[This message has been edited by Dj Yoshi (edited August 10, 2004).]

So, all you'd need to do is use steel and bricks instead of wood, not a big deal.

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I am _ Ace_1 _ , and I approve this message.

Cue smacking of forehead in frustration.

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Yosh, the point is you can make a huge structure out of the destructable objects, and it will fragment and fall realistically.

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I figure that one day I'll either be famous, or in prison. But I guess if I'm going to prison, I should probably try to do something that would make me famous anyway.

But how are you going to destroy it?

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With guns. Lots of guns

-Jackpot

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