biased thread title is biased.

Right, if you're a blue-eyed, blond baby, plenty of people want you. If you aren't, you have a good chance to be state property that gets shifted around until the age of 18 when you're kicked to the curb. That sounds like a good deal.


There are too many people on this planet.

The government shouldn't tell women what they can and can't do with their bodies.

Pro-choice.

Bull****.

Also. What good does an abortion do?

So you're saying that if people don't have a 100% secure job (which is a very small number in our time) they shouldn't have a child? Seeing as the great majority of people don't have a 100% secure job, yet have a child or two and are doing fine, I don't think your argument holds up.

Speaking of convenience, if its not convenient for you to have a baby, then we can conclude that its not convenient for you to have sex in the first place.

I find it funny that people who don't listen to Marvin Gaye's music might not be here if their parents also didn't listen to Marvin Gaye's music.

Oh shut up, already.

Why? Why should I shut up? If you get pregnant, then you ****ed up. No denying that. Its not the fault of an unborn developing child, its yours.

Now whats so HORRIBLE about having an unplanned child. I know plenty of people who had children before marriage and at young ages, who are now professionals, with good jobs, houses and cars.

Just because you have a child when you weren't prepared doesn't mean you have to abandon all the things you wanted to do in life. You just have to work harder for it.

You are given a good nine months to prepare for the new burden. In nine months I can do plenty to put things in my favor for such a burden.

You can still work, you can still go out, you can still study. Things will just be different and take longer.

You also will be closer to your partner, and if you were close enough to have sex with him/her, you should be close enough to share a loving life together.
You will have to work to achieve the life you aspire.

It means you will mature, become responsible, and gain many positive things through this long journey that awaits you.

Sure, it won't be easy, but it won't be hell.

I think hell would be living with an STD, or a partner who can't have children because of an abortion. There are alsot the pyschological effects that a woman suffers, for a long time if not till her death, from an abortion.

I don't know how things are done in Mexico, but having sex with someone doesn't necessarily mean that the two having sex are close or have some sort of connection. They might just be drunk and horny.

Yeah, that's totally true.

eh... that was actually kind of the argument i was making... i guess i didnt make it very clear. i was arguing that im most cases abortion boils down to a question of convenience, hence i am against it in almost all cases.

having said that there are a multitude of circumstances that life throws us that put it a little out of my league to make decisions as to weather or not a pregnant woman has the right to choose. but, as for myself, 100% of the time i am against abortion 90% of the time...:confused:

Then they made a bad decision. A terrible one, what if one of them had an STD? These things happen quite frequently in Mexico, and all aroud the world.

The truth is, our sexual organs were given to us, through God or evolution (whatever you believe in), to reproduce. I believe that the pleasure that we enjoy in sex is a stimulant to reproduce. We were made to enjoy sex, as natural mechanism to encourage reproduction, unlike other animals which don't.

Truth be told, people need to be more mature and smart before taking a decision such as having sex.

I enjoy my very much, and I haven't made a terrible mistake because of the way I handle things. People I know who had sex without a second though, do have trouble. The problem doesn't lie in the outcome of sex, but before sex.

People need to be more intelligent.



I don't know about you, but I have met women who can say that they do suffer from depression after abortion. Seeing as abortion isn't too popular around here, then I can't say I know many women who have aborted, but a few who I know, say that they would have rather not.

Regarding this article, I don't know if it can really be tooken seriously or not. I'm not going to look into it right now. It was probably lead by biased pro abortion people.

In any case, there are plenty of documented cases in which people do suffer from a post abortion syndrome, similiar to a post traumatic stress syndrome.

Even in non Christian cultures, or in cultures where abortion has been legal and accepted for some time.

Anyhow, this article is interesting on PAS....

I'm adopted, so there's high likelihood that I wouldn't be here if my birth parents were pro-choice. That being said I'm also totally pro-choice. It wouldn't be my choice, but:



This is absolutely my stance.

of course it is only anecdotal but, every girl who i know who has had an abortion (and i do know a fair few) has had psychological repercussions after having said abortion. granted i dont think it registers on the same level as ptsd, but to say it has no affect on a persons psyche is, at least in my own experiences totaly false.

Related to this is Levitt's study of the sudden decline in crime rates in the 90s (a few of you will be familiar with Freakonomics). He goes through all the supposed reasons for what could have been responsible for the crime rate decline (economic boom, increased police spending, more intelligent police tactics) and shows how none of these explain the total rapid decline.

In fact, there is a much stronger correlation between crime and legalised abortion. Before Roe v. Wade, it was very difficult and expensive to obtain a safe illegal abortion and so was only an option for the middle class. After Roe v. Wade, abortion became very cheap and available for lower-income households. All of a sudden, a whole generation of unwanted children were aborted and the majority of these unwanted children would have grown up in households with a higher predisposition towards crime. By the mid-90s these children would have been entering the age to join in the cycle of gang warfare and drug crime, but as a whole generation was lost there was a steep decline in crime rates across the country. The sharp decline occured several years earlier in states that legalised abortion several years earlier than Roe v. Wade, and the decline was sharpest in the states with the highest rates of abortion.

Levitt makes it perfectly clear that this study does not argue either for or against legalised abortion; several thousand people have been 'saved' from homocides by Roe v. Wade, but at the cost of more than a million or so abortions. If you consider abortion to be murder, then this isn't much of a tradeoff.

What this study does show, however, is that a potential mother is a better judge of her personal situation than anyone else. If she thinks that she is unsuitable, and that the child would grow up in an unwanted and unloved situtation, she's probably right.

You sound like a 14 year old who's just gotten out of his first sex ed class, dude.

i too enjoy my very much!



thats why you gotta knock em out first! so they dont squirm as much...:o

Well I wonder if a lot of the people against abortion are also against the morning after pill.

Quite a few pharmacists refuse to sell the morning after pill, on religious grounds. There was some court case about it a while ago, I think.

Right, but I mean people on this forum.

no, but, i also believe that even though i find the act of terminating what will inevitably become a living breathing person horrible, the government should not have the authority to dictate what you can and cannot do with your own body... aside from suicide bombing and such.

Isn't that true though?

I'm afraid my backspace key went too far.

I do sound like a 14 year old out sex ed class. Because I remember who gave me my sex ed class very well. A great and admired teacher of the school I was and in fact of the town. He was biased agaisnt abortion, but he also spoke about the other side of things.

He was like a father to me, and I enjoyed all his classes. He taught us civics and history. In Mexico, sex ed is in civics and in biology.

So we get two classes of sex ed!

I remember once we had a whole week of classes on STDs. We were shown slides of genital warts and other things, and one of the teachers who used to be a nurse at a hospital came in and gave a long one hour and terribly scary talk about all the things she had seen.

The purpose of the class was, get to know your partner before sex and use a condom.

Bingo.

Accidents happen. Condoms do not offer a 100% guarantee that your partner will not be pregnant. In the face of such an accident, chastity is the single guarantee of not getting pregnant.

If your condom breaks (or face another, similar issue) and the woman is pregnant, without the possibility of abortion or a morning-after pill, you are pretty much doomed. I'm certain some religious nut or another on these forums will chant 'CHASTITY' but fact of the matter is that is not how society functions in this day and age. Our society, our way of life, is about choices. It is about freedom.

Not a damned person in the world has the right to deny others a choice pertaining to their own selves, to their own body. The growing fetus inside your body is not a person, nor is it capable on conscience or choice. It will be, and I personally find that a 20 week deadline on abortion is perhaps too long, but it isn't yet. It is a part of your body, of your organism. It is also your life.

My name is Jep, and I'm pro-choice. (I also eat babies.)

(Except for Veggie. He doesn't have the choice to be sexy. Out with the carrot!)

and besides the morning after pill prevents fertilization, or failing that it stops implantation. you dont even get pregnant. it is quite separate from an abortion.

We are offered the choice of knowing who we have sex with. Ignoring this, the risk of pregnancy and an STD is foolish.

Just because a living organism doesn't have the capability of choice or is concious does not mean we should deny it these capabilities, which will come with development.

I find it selfish for a man to force his girl to take decision like this and also expose her to a Post Abortion syndrome, which will haunt her years later for a long time.

If you want to dodge these problems, then get a vasectomy, or don't have sex until you're prepared for the consequences.



Fertilization can happen within 72 hours as I understand it. So it could happen within a couple hours after sex. You can't guarentee that the egg cell hasn't already been fertilized and begun development.

I'm pro-choice, but I would never have an abortion unless under extreme circumstances (like the only thing being born would be an arm with a brain or something...that extreme). It's a complicated thing to be either fully for or fully against though...

Of course, I'm also for the death penalty and euthanasia so maybe I'm just all about the killing? >_>

You know, I'm pro-choice, but I really don't like that argument. It's not just her body. There's another one in there.

First off, knowing who you have sex with does not in any way shape or form reduce the chances of pregnancy.

Also the second quoted paragraph is BEYOND ludicrous. Its not always about the man forcing the woman to undergo abortion procedures or, heh, expose her to Post Abortion syndrome.

And for the record, believe me, its not only the woman that can potentially suffer from regret or other such "syndrome". I've been in a situation such as this, and I actually wanted the damn child, however choices were made, and while its still a sensitive subject even after 2 years (while the involved woman does not hurt or regret one bit, according to her), these choices were made for the best.

Same here

It's like if you ate a bug

But what GOOD does an abortion do?

Pro-life.

I...don't care. But it's not the federal government's place to decide, in my opinion. Maybe state governments, but I don't really like that either. If we start prosecuting people based on potentials they've destroyed, we're kind of overreaching, if you ask me. I mean, you ate that nut, that could have been a tree in a national park someday! THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A VERY SERIOUS CRIME. So we'll just charge you with that crime now.

I have no personal problem (detached as I currently am from any emotional attachment to a developing baby) with stopping a little pink bean from ruining someone's life. But...I'm hardly the authority here and who am I to tell people what's right?

Uh

Helps the mother/her family avoid giving birth to and caring for a child they don't want

Am I missing something?

But the point is that the organism inside the woman's body cannot think for itself or make choices. It is a burden of the woman's body. Therefore, a woman has a right to do whatever she pleases with her body, whether it means having an abortion, or having the child.

I'm pro sterilization for people who are too dumb/poor/easy to have sex in the first place. Abortion is only an option if its birth is going to kill the mother IMO.

]

that sounds like a good objective source there

this is what i wish the pro life movement was all about, unfortunately its more about using fear, anger and even hate to try and force women into seeing their point of view.
that and waving giant posters of partial birth abortions around outside planned parenthood clinics. those people disgust me.:colbert:



lol they use the dark side of the force...

Vader would still be alive had Padme not been pro-life!

Mexico
Catholics
nuff said

(i think they are more serious on this matter as some refuse to use condoms, so some say)