From cnn.com

Obama says U.S., Turkey can be model for world

President Barack Obama:
"Turkey is a very important country -- one of our critical members of NATO. They play an important role in helping to support troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan. They will hopefully play a role in helping to bring about a Middle East peace settlement,"

Obama on Monday avoided pushing for a pledge he made during his presidential campaign to recognize officially the massacre of ethnic Armenians in 1915 as a genocide. Turkey vehemently denies Armenian claims that 1 million Armenians were killed in the last days of the Ottoman Empire.

From The Associated Press

"The Armenian genocide is not an allegation, a personal opinion, or a point of view, but rather a widely documented fact supported by an overwhelming body of historical evidence,"

Obama said in a January 2008 statement on his campaign Web site.

"America deserves a leader who speaks truthfully about the Armenian genocide and responds forcefully to all genocides. I intend to be that president."

Oh, right- THAT Genocide.



While I understand Obama's difficulty in discussing the issue of Genocide, especially when Turkey is such an important ally to have right now, we also need to look at the bigger picture and realize that Genocides are going to continue to occur as long as we push the issue aside. So for once, let's talk about Genocide.

who cares?

Bringing up the Armenian Genocide would accomplish nothing except to distract people from the issue of Turkey's modern mistreatment of ethnic minorities and motions toward a Kurdish genocide. It's ignorant and self-serving.

Anyone remember the rape of nanking?

We sure do pressure Japan about that one. China loves that ****.

Yes, people remember the Rape of Nanking. It's taught in schools, and there are college courses that go in depth about it. Japan recognized what they did, and formally apologized for that in 1995.

The Armenian Genocide isn't taught in schools, and it isn't recognized by the entire U.S. or Turkey. Turkey still denies it happened to this day.

Turkey wouldn't be getting away with what they are now if we held them responsible for a genocide that happened almost 100 years ago.

Wrong.

Ahahaha. The apology was a broad and non-specific apology for Japan's wartime actions, hundreds of Japan's federal elected officials deny that it ever happened and the average Japanese person considers the Rape of Nanking a benevolent and heroic act to protect the Glorious Nihon from the filthy gaijin cannibals.

Well given the fact that people are still complaining about it I'd say that the genocide wasn't all that effective. Which makes it fairly difficult to care especially compared to the conduct of modern Turkey.

Horse****. Turkey isn't getting away with it because the US military knows better than you and is protecting them. Rubbing Turkey's nose in the Armenian genocide won't change a damn thing because they don't care!

What Genocide?

Oh, I guess your right. That was a really well thought out retort. I can't deny that.

In a lecture.

But basically. Armenian Genocide was taught at my highschool, which at the time was one of the lowest scoring schools in the country. Japanese officials still deny the rape of nanking. It isn't taught to full extent in Japanese primary schools.

We are currently supporting Japan's right to establish more than a self defense army. China is obviously ****ting bricks.

The race wars in the east and middle east are far more important than the Armenian genocide. Pushing a subject no one cares about isn't going to alter current events anymore than those stupids in DC with the picket signs.

Turkey are a bunch of dicks anyway, the bastards won't even acknowledge Cyprus. I'm not sure why the EU are even seriously considering Turkey becoming a member of the EU, but I guess it has something to do with money.

Pfft, Turkey are only half in europe.

Turkey kind of strikes me as that guy you let hang out with you because he'll go ape**** if you don't. Or that is to say, even more ape**** than normal.

there are more armenians in the world than some other races (native north americans for example)

plus amernia is still mostly populated by armenians right?

the only people complaining (whining really) about the armenian genocide anymore are armenians, rich college kids with nothing better to do, and soad fans

and all this talk about turkey makes me want a sandwich

a turkey sandwich.

PS, watched the speech in bits through lunch.

While the word genocide wasn't specifically used, the word massacre was thrown out there at least twice. Along with standard talk about how much the previous administration sucked and world peace blah blah blah.

Which do you think is better?

Suggesting and coercing a group of people to change their ways or kicking them in the balls until they admit it? I fail to see the point in inciting conflict over something happened and cannot be changed.

Maybe there are more important things to talk about than what happened between two other countries 100 years ago. I don't think our Congress has any business passes and resolutions about it. Everyone involved is dead now. It would be different if the same regime was still in power, but it's not.

I would make a comment about how your geography isn't better than Americans', most Americans couldn't point to Turkey on a map.

i can. but only cuz istanbul was constantinople.

What I thought this thread was going to be about, and what I think it should be about. It's disturbing that anyone would cite Turkey as a model for anything but religious/cultural tyranny.

So did the Armenians kill a bunch of Turks back in the day?

No, but I'm game for starting that rumor if you are.

just pointing out here that people have gotten into trouble in Turkey for mentioning the genocide before, so it is kind of a topic that people avoid there.

Just saying that Obama probably didn't want to stir up a whole lot of trouble.

I don't know anything about the Armenian genocide. What happened and why?

The Ottoman Empire was a Muslim country under Sharia. That should be enough explanation, but I'll continue. The Armenians were mainly Christian. The usual stuff that happens to a Christian minority in a Muslim country happens. WW1 starts and a corrupt racist Muslim military commander starts using his troops to clean out Armenian villages. A few Armenians resist, giving all of the other filthy bloodthirsty Turks an excuse to call it a rebellion.

Basically the same stuff that's happening today. Except the Kurds are Muslim too, so it's just racism. Kurds in the south being subjected to terrible hardship and abuse, occasionally fighting back (which is the only part of the story that makes Turkish news - they're terrorists, see). Fortunately the Turks seem to be able to learn from history, which is why they want to move troops into Northern Iraq - so they can wipe 'em out before Kurdistan gets put on the map.

Would SAJN even care about the Armenian Genocide if Serj Tankian wasn't Lebanese-Armenian?

You're an idiot. I forgot it was against the law to feel compassionate and to want justice for a people without being on Serj's nuts or an Armenian.

I've never even heard of this genocide apart from when SAJN makes threads every so often.

but the point still stands.... it's very likely you wouldn't care so much if it wasn't for your favorite band

and to be honest whining because a politician went against his campaign promises related to an issue that is less important now than it was 94 years ago

recognition of a genocide that happened 94 years ago won't stop one that's happening now

if you really want to push this issue talk to people WHO CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT instead of people who are tired of your threads parroting Serj Tankian's political views

You are just as much of an idiot. This has nothing to do with a band. This has to do with the denial of a Genocide. It has to do with officially recognizing the mass murder of 1.5 million people, not only to prevent further Genocide's from occurring but also to give closure to those that are plagued by memories of Genocide. If your entire family was killed, however long ago, you'd want some sort of recognition and justice. You are taking an issue as large as Genocide and you are using your narrow pathetic mind to grind it down to something as stupid as listening to a band.

Turkey did something horrible almost 100 years ago, we are letting them get away with it, and because of that, they continue to show little to no respect for human life, and they are going to continue to do so as long as the world shows them that it's okay to treat people like dirt and kill innocents.

Also if I really want to push the issue, I supposed I could do something about it...Like write, produce, direct, and edit a 5 part documentary series about genocide and then show it at a variety of concerts in an attempt to spread information concerning genocide as well as raise over $10,000 for Amnesty, Save Darfur, ANCA, and more. Oh wait, I am. Shut it.

if we held the current turkish government accountable for the crimes of the ottoman empire i seriously doubt it would make them change their minds on what they are doing now

all it would amount to is just some finger pointing i seriously doubt the turks would ever officially apologize and if they did it would be with their fingers crossed behind their back

Why is genocide capitalized every time SAJN mentions it? (except one sentence.)

I'd heard of it before but by god theres alot of evidence supporting the fact that it happened from many countries (Including Russia)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

According to Wikipedia 42 US States have stated that it happened.

Because it's a Big Deal.

It's the name of a band.

I read that as 'brand'. Turkey now brings you new and improved Genocide (TM)!

Now that would be a tough product to sell.

Not if it tasted like Jerky.

Not as much as you might guess.