Severe economic rape and standard *******ry we are known for.




They weren't, they aren't. Read the article. They weren't anywhere close to the area because it's so ****ing big.


I don't need a lecture in what any branch of the armed services does. A member of my family has served in one way or another since this country was founded.


I already stated there was no right answer to this problem. Learn to read. Or comprehend, whichever it is you have a problem doing.

Furthermore, criticizing a US CITIZEN for his dissenting opinion on the affairs of his own nation makes you look incredibly juvenile and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the affairs that took place to form the nation you live in.

I haven't read the thread fully, but I don't think you of all people have the right to be offended that someone criticized you Mr "I'm tough on the internet"

Where does it say I was offended? I'm reading for it and just not finding it.

I really have to point it out? You're calling Mirthy immature because she criticized you. I was merely bringing up the hypocrisy of this statement.

4 more ships have been taken today.

By WW1 Germany was still a very young country, fresh out of the Franco-Prussian War. Cohesion was racial rather than national: the large Germanic population of Austria made an alliance mandatory in order to legitimize the formation of Germany. An Archduke of Austria-Hungary was assassinated and France manipulated the situation so they could recapture Alsace-Lorraine which they lost to the Prussians in 1871. In spite of what your history teacher told you, Germany was always a reluctant participant and they were in absolutely no way the instigator of the war.

After WW1 the Entente - meaning France - demanded that Germany pay outrageous reparations and prohibited alliances with Austria or the inclusion of Austria in the German state. France made no allowance for the reconstruction of German industry or infrastructure. France also successfully reclaimed Alsace-Lorraine, which was Germany's primary source of coal and iron. The reparation demands led to hyperinflation and disenfranchisement. The main reason the Nazi regime was able to rise to power is because they promised to disregard the French demands, which appealed to the Germans because they were being directly affected.

Essentially what I'm saying is that using Germany as an example of what hypernationalism does to a country is a poor choice, although it's difficult to come up with any example of a country that can be used to model the American notion of patriotism.

Germany's nationalism was well-deserved and had merits beyond a flag and a national anthem.

American patriotism is shallow. It's how the rich elites derive their control over people. They convince the stupid and shameless that their word is law, and then those stupid people shame everybody else into stepping in line. Look at what just happened in this thread. You aren't allowed to question the status quo, the "party line", because if you do you're one of them. That's not nationalism. Nationalism would be if you cared about your Constitution enough to exercise your freedoms and let others exercise theirs without spergin' out about how they should move to Canada.

I called her immature specifically because I think the attitude where you can't be critical of your own country and patriotic is incredibly immature and stupid.

I just picked the first country I could think of that everyone would universally identify.

Despite all of us being taught the direct and indirect causes of the first and second world war, people seem to universally identify with the idea of german evalness.

I was going to pick Japan, but no one wants to hear about Japan. They have the nintendu and the animu.

Hell yes to Jon'C, by the way, regarding the TRUE meaning of patriotism.

Rob, I wanted to know from you how exactly we have wronged Somalia. Jon'C has made a good point (though I'm not sure I agree with it exactly) but you seem to have a different point. Or no point, I'm not sure which. You said there's no solution...so you suggest simply letting it continue and paying ransoms?

If people identify with the idea of German villainy I'd suspect that they were not, in fact, taught the direct and indirect causes of the first and second world wars. Hell, I bet most people - even most people here, in this forum, which (bafflingly at times) represents an above average cross section of the population - think WW2 happened because the Nazis were killing Jews.

I think more people should. If more people knew what Japanese nationalism wrought I bet there'd be fewer anime fans, for sure.

Alright, we'll start from the beginning...

"Severe economic rape and standard *******ry we are known for."

Since you apparently know everything to do with American economic and foreign policy, please educate me on our rape of Somaila. Also, please let me know what *******ry, you mean...


"They weren't, they aren't. Read the article. They weren't anywhere close to the area because it's so ****ing big."


We have ships around the world. I beg your pardon that I misread their locations. But I did read the part where the American ship arrived and saved the Captain... so our ships were close enough to save him, though it took some time.


"I don't need a lecture in what any branch of the armed services does. A member of my family has served in one way or another since this country was founded."


Good job. My family also comes from a long line of distinquished military men, including Francis Marion, the Swamp Fox of American Revolutionary fame. I only included that line because you did not seem to understand one of the reasons we have a Navy. I beg your pardon, your wisedom and intelligence did not reveal itself to me in your post, so I had no idea what you may or may not have known.


"I already stated there was no right answer to this problem. Learn to read. Or comprehend, whichever it is you have a problem doing."


Quit getting so defensive and then I'll take your insults seriously.


"Exactly, we don't care about anyone else. We haven't done dick or very little to save any other nations captives. There are hundreds of hostages right now. It doesn't make our news, and it's none of our concern. That is our culture. Thats kind of a dangerous property for a country to have. Remember when Germany got all nationalist, twice in a row?"


It is not the place of US Navy ships to handle foreign hostage situations. If the US has been asked by other nations for aid in a pirate hostage situation, then we will assist. And the issue of foreign hostages has made our news. Americans are concerned for foreign captives, because we, just as well as those captives homelands want to see innocent people saved from pirates. I'm not sure why you think Americans hate the rest of the world or why you think our culture is wrong for looking after its own citizens. You're right, Germany did "get all" nationalist and fascism took over, but I'm not sure how that equates to Pirates, and us not intervening on other nations hostage situations. I guess us not getting involved in other nations issues make us a**holes. Shame on us for not trying to police the world.


"U DUNT LIKE MERICA. YOU CAN GO TO HELL YOU PINKO COMMIE ****TARD

IF U DUNT LIKE MERICA YOU SHOULD MOVE YOU STUPID HIPPIE

HURR HURR HURR HURR HURR"

Cute. I don't imagine you have a lot of friends offline... or online for that matter.


"Thank you for demonstrating the exact point I was trying to make with the phrase "hypernationalist bunch of douchebags."

I guess you're welcome. Its funny that by offering a dissenting opinion I'm the douchebag. I thought America was a land where differing opinions were allowed and embraced. So thank you for demonstrating the excact point of closeminded douchebags.


Also,

"Furthermore, criticizing a US CITIZEN for his dissenting opinion on the affairs of his own nation makes you look incredibly juvenile and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the affairs that took place to form the nation you live in."

Wait a minute, so its alright for you to criticize another US CITIZEN and call them a douchebag, but if they criticize you its not ok? When did your opinions become the opinions of the entire nation?

Honestly, I beg your and everyone else's pardon for dissagreeing with you. Apparently you cannot take different opinions without getting your panties in a wad. I'll make sure I don't ever try to have a discussion with you again so that your delicate senses are not offended.

Oh and, where did I ever say that you weren't a patriot? I never started to insult your patriotism. You are allowed to have your own opinions, but at the same time, so am I.

So please quit crying about a girl that challenged your ideas.

It's pretty well-documented that America has no interest in a stable Somalia, since they supply Islam warlords there with weaponry.

I've never heard or seen that America is interested in an unstable Somalia, in fact I thought that we were there trying to help the humanitarian crisis that had left millions starving. When did we American's start supplying arms to the Somalies?


I do know that some arms used by the Somali's in the First Battle of Mogadishu were left over from the Soviet/Afghan war and had been provided by Afghan forces. Some of those weapons were American because we supported the Afghanis against the Soviets. But aside from that when did the US supply arms to warlords in Somalia?


And I mean that legitmately, I honestly don't know, and I am very curious without trying to sound condescending and without insulting your patriotism. ;-)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/insinuate

This is what you did by telling me to move to another country if I wasn't proud of the actions we take.

This is what we call back pedaling. I don't care if you're a girl. You brought your sex into this equation. I never at all mentioned it accept to refer to your gender correctly. If you prefer, I can start calling you "it," if you find it so offensive.



You missed important parts of the article. I cannot begin to think of why.



I'm not going to engage in a pissing contest of who has more service in their family. If my grandfather was still alive he'd probably beat the **** out of me for even mentioning it.




Quit reading only the parts you want to read and skipping everything else.



It's okay every other time we want to be world police? Ever notice how as a nation we don't seem to care about things until they also become our problem? For example, you see all the good we're doing for Darfur.. oh that.. right



I might be a condescending douche, but I'm not a hypernationalist condescending douche. I have plenty of friends offline. In real life.




I already know I'm a douche, this is not exactly a topic of study here. It's a known fact. However, dissenting my opinion based solely on your view of it being unamerican and unpatriotic is incredibly douchey. It's the kind of thing we as a nation frown upon in other lesser developed nations and super powers alike. It's incredibly bizarre that this sort of behavior is encouraged here and discouraged elsewhere. Well no really, thats sorta the bread and butter of nationalism. We are the greatest country in the world after all.

We can do know wrong, there are no black marks on our short history. No genocides, no suppressing of women or minorities. None of that stuff has happens here or ever will.



Yes, you are a douche for telling me to move to a different country because I don't agree with how we portray ourselves to the world. Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them.

really, Rob, you're going to go that route? Linking to a dictionary definition for the word insinuate?

[edit] point of reference: this was said before he modified his post. She's hardly hypernationalist. That's just a way to try to write off anything she has to say. Also - I think part of her point is that we shouldn't be policing the world.

:hamburger:

He must be pretty old...

They use AK-47s and RPGs. Those aren't American weapons.

Hint: It wasn't.

Yep the US has no business policing the world's shipping lanes, it's not in the American public's best interests. I mean, it's not what the American navy has been doing since they built one, and it's not like protecting trade is why the US entered WW1 or anything like that. If manufacturing can be re-localized quickly enough the American economy should only shrink about 25% or so. :downs:

Piracy has been going on for centuries, irregardless of world economic standing.

I meant for people who thought that

WW2 happened because Japan invented the verb "Pearl Harbor".

I wasn't trying to say that our Navy has no place in those waters, I was saying that it's not our job to jump to the rescue when citizens of other countries get taken hostage, particularly when they're not asking us for help.

but britain declared war on germany 2 years, 3 months and 4 days before that

Earlier this month a British ship carrying iron ore was captured. In March there was a Greek ship carrying steel. In February, a Greek ship carrying coal. In January: a German ship carrying LPG, an Egyptian ship carrying fertilizer and a Panamanian ship carrying grain. Last year: palm oil, steel, wheat, crude oil, iron ore, cement, coal, salt, petrochemicals, plywood, and - just to round out the list - a Ukrainian ship carrying 33 Soviet tanks.

We're not just talking about a small destabilization here, although even a small destabilization does affect prices across the board. We're also talking about some of the most volatile criminals on Earth getting access to materials that they should never ever be allowed to have. Fertilizer? Chemical tankers? Soviet tanks and ammunition? Come on.

Im really hoping they roll out a ship decked out with parts from those tanks.

Jews were the scapegoat of one pissed off nation. Germany got royally äss-****ed by...the world. They were proverbially forced at gun point to accept the Treaty of Versailles. Not to mention really rough economic times hit there during the 30s as well. I don't know if it was on the level of our Depression but the 1930s sucked for everyone. We just had the resources to pull through with our own government intact. So you have any given 35 year old downtrodden German who would have mature memories of the previous war plus crippling economy.

Along comes this bloke whom we will call Hitler who is very good at public speaking and makes you feel really good about being a German again. WW2 wasn't about killing Jews. In fact, I believe the (Christian/Muslim) world wouldn't be all that upset if Hitler had some modest success. In the United States, there wasn't a whole lot of support initially to join in the war. That war was "over there" and anti-Semitism had substantial roots. After all, Jews did kill their Lord and Savior. No, WW2 started becase Germany became a really big threat to Europe. People in Europe didn't want to be German. And here is a militarized, united Germany who wants to do a lot of ***-kicking.

The United States was dragged into the war. If it were not for Pearl Harbor, I don't think we would have entered in '42. Also in '43, Germany declared war on us. Roosevelt only asked Congress to declare war on Japan after the Pearl Harbor attacks. I bold that because the lot of you forget that only Congress has the authority to declare war. Something the War Powers Act substantially watered down. Essentially, one man now has the authority to beat up another nation. And we think we're better than...Mesopotamia in that we've removed warmongering powers from the head of state. How do you think we got into the Iraq debacle in the first place? I digress. I don't think we would have stayed out of the war entirely. Too much of our own interests would be at stake should Germany have prevailed.

Japan saw no competitor around their side of the globe. Decades of Western ravaging and Spheres of Influence in China degraded that nation to a bunch of pushovers. Which is why Japan steamrolled over Manchuria. Picking on the US proved too much for them. IIRC, Adm. Yamamoto was quite reluctant on attacking Pearl Harbor, thinking they'd awake a "sleeping giant."

No. If you don't like the country you currently live in [The United States of America] -- you have the right to leave. So anyone who hates the U.S.'s foreign policies so unbelievably much that they would call fellow citizens who support our Government "hypernationalist douchebags", just get the **** out.

Funny, back in 2004 there were a lot of people threatening to move to Canada. Guys like you were calling them cowards, because they would rather abandon their country than help fix it.

Oh, but now your song is different. You like things the way they are. Don't want anybody rocking the boat, do you?

I'm not sure if this sort of opinion is rooted in ignorance or if it's from selfishness with a healthy dose of cognitive dissonance but I can't imagine why anybody would leave a country when they can instead vote for people who do not share your point of view. Out of spite. Maybe Rob will win the lottery, make several huge donations to the next president's campaign, and even get you exiled.

Antisemitism was rampant. The US is notorious for turning away massive numbers of refugees (knowing that the Germans were going to kill them), but almost every other country did too. At the start of the holocaust the world's greatest concern was the inconvenience of a huge influx of Jewish refugees.

Edit: Hell, the fact that nobody wanted a bunch of Jewish people in their country is the only reason Israel exists today. Britain even tried to keep them out of colonial Palestine by putting them in a concentration camp on Cyprus for a while but there were just too many of them to contain.

The only reason Germany declared war on the US is because their alliance with Japan demanded it. Before Japan attacked Pearl Harbor it was Hitler's intention to offer Canada and Mexico to the United States as a kind of peace offering. Manifest Destiny indeed.

Haha.. your assumption of my views is so *** backwards its not even funny. No, I was telling those pussies to get the **** out back then too. Don't make assumptions about me when you nothing of me.

"Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers – already, you see, the world had already fallen into the hands of the Jews, so gutless a thing Christianity! – then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism, that cult which glorifies the heroism and which opens up the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world. Christianity alone prevented them from doing so."

Right... did he ever deny that?