The best job in the world is being a lawyer's spouse.

Wrong! Certain attorneys have a reputation of flooding the court with motions. Others don't.



Over here we have attorneys that will drive their client to the police department to turn them in on a warrant, sit in the lobby and wait, then drive them back.

All I'm saying is I get frustrated with the system. I don't expect you to understand because you don't work with it.

Goddammit, ****. ****.

If it were up to me I'd disband all police after a few of those videos. ****.

Glad you are in charge of absolutely nothing.



You really like lawyers, don't you Jon'C? I mean, it's sorta funny that you never puffed your chest about how hard physicians had to work during any of the healthcare threads. Back then they were a public resource akin to air.

Lawyers? THEY ARE GOD'S GIFT TO MAN!

No, I'm right. In addition to the threat of civil malpractice suits, disregarding the interests of a client is grounds for disbarment. You can disagree all you want, but I'm right. Look up your local bar association and ask them.

It's totally irrelevant that certain attorneys prefer certain methods. That's like complaining because a cop prefers beating people with a maglite instead of shooting them with a taser. It's all the same thing, right?

I don't understand what you're complaining about. It makes your job easier, right?

Let me put it this way: Someone gets dragged in by the police, kicking and screaming. The police remember him saying "I'm gonna ****ing kill all you pigs!"

Will he have a shorter sentence than the guy whose lawyer drove him to the police station? No.

Lawyer. Best interests of client. Done.

No, I totally understand why you would get frustrated with the system that's designed to protect innocent people from unwarranted prosecution. I bet you'd have a much easier time if you were Judge Dredd.

Agreed. That's just throwing the baby out with the bath water. There are lots of potential solutions re: what Mort Hog said; the problem is sociological, not institutional.

I am able to recognize how hard they work to accomplish their goals, and I've talked to law students/lawyers here, elsewhere on the internet and in real life (on professional and non-professional bases.)

Whether or not I like them is entirely irrelevant, but I do prefer a court situation where they exist versus one where they do not. I know, it's a strange opinion for someone who has allegedly never dealt with the system.

I don't remember... are you a whiny pre-med, whiny med student or whiny doctor?

Either way, I don't see any need for the strawman.

Am I wrong?

Let's say you're a carpenter. You spend your days building houses.

And there are also anti-carpenters, who are paid to run around after you, trying to knock your houses over. The anti-carpenter is knocking down unsafe houses... but sometimes he knocks down houses that are perfectly fine, too.

How would you feel about it? About all of that wasted time? About how sure you are that the house is safe? As a citizen, I like the fact that there are anti-carpenters to knock over the unsafe building. As a carpenter, you'd probably be pissed off.

Yeah, my analogy may have been crude, but the point is still there (and it's not retarded.) JLee would have an easier time in his job if he could deal with criminals however he sees fit. The fact that courts exist, though, is because society does not trust him to do it. That's what this whole thread is about, right? Examples of police who are not trustworthy?

First-hand experience is often the worst measure of any objective reality, giving a narrow scope of experience where additional experiences only narrow this scope further. Eye-witness testimony is notoriously unreliable, 75% of convictions overturned by DNA evidence were wrongfully convicted by eyewitness identification.



This is due to a variety of psychological factors, not an inherent dishonesty in eyewitnesses. An interesting factor found by a 25 year meta-analysis is cross-race impairment, where a person of one race have a clear deficiency is identifying members of another race.

This sort of analysis of general trends, legal practises and meta-analysis of behaviour is far more meaningful than the first-hand experience of any one individual.

You keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night

You're not even worth replying to.

heh, a cop overreacting

oh noes!

hey, remember when I said that lawyers work hard responding to arguments?

remember that time you told me that I'm not worth responding to?

Q.E.D.

Uh..

I'm not getting paid to reply to you.

You're not. I'm wasting time.

His frustration is with loopholes in the system being used to get the obviously guilty off.

It's easier to do your job without lawyers.
It's easier to dismiss what I say than be forced to educate yourself.

Easier, easier, easier.

No. It's all about effort, JLee. Personal effort. Professional effort. The kind of effort that can't be bought with wages, no matter how hard you pretend.

Edit:

I'm aware of his grievances. The system - and the loopholes - exist so:

1.) The police cannot be abusive.
2.) Innocent people cannot be accidentally punished.

You, and JLee, would probably consider something like having charges dismissed because of an unlawful search to be a 'loophole.' I consider it to be 'important.' Is it harder to arrest and convict the guilty? Yes. Is it harder to arrest and convict the innocent? ...Yes! Lawyers are the only reason these 'loopholes' work.

Why are you complaining, though? If I failed to convince you, and you hate those loopholes, the video in the OP is a great example of how ineffective they are.

You not only have the balls to insult me when you get the opportunity, but you also insinuate that I demonstrate a lack of professional effort in my career? You are disgusting.


Nowhere have I even implied that. Your assumption that I am a proponent for constitutional violations is arrogant, baseless, and personally insulting.

I expect this type of behavior and 'diarrhea of the mouth' from the drunks in my back seat. I've been threatened with lawsuits, have heard all sorts of unspeakable things that someone wants to do to me or my family, and have been told that when they were through with me, I'd be out of a job. Guess what? I'm still here, with multiple commendations in my file (from supervisors and the general public alike).

I come to Massassi because I enjoy it here - not because I want to listen to the likes of you. Debate all you like, but I've had enough of your arrogant insults.

Gosh, I'm sorry JLee. Google never taught me what an insult is.

You enjoy it here but you don't want to listen to one of the members that posts most often? That's like saying you really love going to the beach, but you can't stand sand.

Maybe I'm not smart enough to understand, but I'm pretty sure you aren't qualified to make this determination. In fact, I'm pr

Kruger, Justin, and David Dunning. “Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One’s Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments.” Journal of Personality & Social Psychology 77.6 (1999): 121-34. Academic Search Complete. EBSCO. Web. 8 Feb. 2010.

I know... I hate it when I can't ignore someone's posts. It just seems like I don't have free will at all.

Wow, that was perhaps the grossest generalization I've seen from you Jon'C. I expect better from you than that totally baseless and borderline retarded statement. I take it you aren't quite knowledgeable about becoming a police officer and what that entails? I think it's bit more than being trained to "walk around" and "getting a free gun". Do you really not respect cops that much, or do you (most likely) just hate JLee because you derive self-pleasure in discrediting someone's profession?

No ****? Really?

Oh man, Google forgot tell me what an exaggeration is, too! It's almost like I wasn't responding to someone complaining that lawyers have "too much leeway" and get paid too much for "one DUI."

****, I feel retarded! And illiterate! I even forgot to mention in that post that police don't deserve half of the **** that they get, either! Whoaaaaaa dude, man, I think I'm so ****ing incapable of reading entire posts before sperging out that my whole face is going to explode. Durrrghghgghghhhhh

I think Jon'C might be having a contempt meltdown.

Yeah. Jon`C is having a total mental breakdown.

I like that. It's pretty accurate.

Hey, re-read the thread, buds. You soppy ***** were arguing my totally audacious opinion that "lawyers work hard too" is equivalent to saying "**** da police, yo" followed by crude mimicry of a 'gangland-style execution' with my thumb and index finger.

Please keep this going, I'm totally bored at work.

I'm with Brian on this. I'm just bored at home, though.

Someone replace Joncy's batteries.

Jon'C degenerating to angry swearing? If you'd have asked me about that yesterday I'd have answered,

Okay, I laughed.

Well executed!

I clearly picked exactly the right time to check this thread again.

This is meant with no disrespect, but I hate when I see public servants or military personnel who wig out over a contrarian opinion. I find it silly that the argument being had here is:

Joncy: Lawyers and cops work hard.

JLee: Lawyers mess up the system and make it harder to convict the guilty.

Joncy: True, but it's better to have it that way. Here's why.

JLee: Why would you stand up for sleazeball lawyers? WARGARRRBL!

Joncy: WARGARRRBL

When ultimately, the lawyers are there to defend the SAME PEOPLE THAT THE PUBLIC SERVANT IS SUPPOSED TO PROTECT.


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...


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SCIENCE!:eng101:

You know lawyers also have to defend cops, right?

Yeah, but those aren't real defense attorneys.

Uh, no. I'm afraid you missed my point.

Then correct him. Simply stating "YOU DON'T GET IT!" is not a valid method of convincing someone of your views.