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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Steve Jobs Open Letter to Adobe
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Steve Jobs Open Letter to Adobe
2010-04-29, 7:58 AM #1
Quote:
Apple has a long relationship with Adobe. In fact, we met Adobe’s founders when they were in their proverbial garage. Apple was their first big customer, adopting their Postscript language for our new Laserwriter printer. Apple invested in Adobe and owned around 20% of the company for many years. The two companies worked closely together to pioneer desktop publishing and there were many good times. Since that golden era, the companies have grown apart. Apple went through its near death experience, and Adobe was drawn to the corporate market with their Acrobat products. Today the two companies still work together to serve their joint creative customers – Mac users buy around half of Adobe’s Creative Suite products – but beyond that there are few joint interests.

I wanted to jot down some of our thoughts on Adobe’s Flash products so that customers and critics may better understand why we do not allow Flash on iPhones, iPods and iPads. Adobe has characterized our decision as being primarily business driven – they say we want to protect our App Store – but in reality it is based on technology issues. Adobe claims that we are a closed system, and that Flash is open, but in fact the opposite is true. Let me explain.

First, there’s “Open”.

Adobe’s Flash products are 100% proprietary. They are only available from Adobe, and Adobe has sole authority as to their future enhancement, pricing, etc. While Adobe’s Flash products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Adobe and available only from Adobe. By almost any definition, Flash is a closed system.

Apple has many proprietary products too. Though the operating system for the iPhone, iPod and iPad is proprietary, we strongly believe that all standards pertaining to the web should be open. Rather than use Flash, Apple has adopted HTML5, CSS and JavaScript – all open standards. Apple’s mobile devices all ship with high performance, low power implementations of these open standards. HTML5, the new web standard that has been adopted by Apple, Google and many others, lets web developers create advanced graphics, typography, animations and transitions without relying on third party browser plug-ins (like Flash). HTML5 is completely open and controlled by a standards committee, of which Apple is a member.

Apple even creates open standards for the web. For example, Apple began with a small open source project and created WebKit, a complete open-source HTML5 rendering engine that is the heart of the Safari web browser used in all our products. WebKit has been widely adopted. Google uses it for Android’s browser, Palm uses it, Nokia uses it, and RIM (Blackberry) has announced they will use it too. Almost every smartphone web browser other than Microsoft’s uses WebKit. By making its WebKit technology open, Apple has set the standard for mobile web browsers.

Second, there’s the “full web”.

Adobe has repeatedly said that Apple mobile devices cannot access “the full web” because 75% of video on the web is in Flash. What they don’t say is that almost all this video is also available in a more modern format, H.264, and viewable on iPhones, iPods and iPads. YouTube, with an estimated 40% of the web’s video, shines in an app bundled on all Apple mobile devices, with the iPad offering perhaps the best YouTube discovery and viewing experience ever. Add to this video from Vimeo, Netflix, Facebook, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, ESPN, NPR, Time, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated, People, National Geographic, and many, many others. iPhone, iPod and iPad users aren’t missing much video.

Another Adobe claim is that Apple devices cannot play Flash games. This is true. Fortunately, there are over 50,000 games and entertainment titles on the App Store, and many of them are free. There are more games and entertainment titles available for iPhone, iPod and iPad than for any other platform in the world.

Third, there’s reliability, security and performance.

Symantec recently highlighted Flash for having one of the worst security records in 2009. We also know first hand that Flash is the number one reason Macs crash. We have been working with Adobe to fix these problems, but they have persisted for several years now. We don’t want to reduce the reliability and security of our iPhones, iPods and iPads by adding Flash.

In addition, Flash has not performed well on mobile devices. We have routinely asked Adobe to show us Flash performing well on a mobile device, any mobile device, for a few years now. We have never seen it. Adobe publicly said that Flash would ship on a smartphone in early 2009, then the second half of 2009, then the first half of 2010, and now they say the second half of 2010. We think it will eventually ship, but we’re glad we didn’t hold our breath. Who knows how it will perform?

Fourth, there’s battery life.

To achieve long battery life when playing video, mobile devices must decode the video in hardware; decoding it in software uses too much power. Many of the chips used in modern mobile devices contain a decoder called H.264 – an industry standard that is used in every Blu-ray DVD player and has been adopted by Apple, Google (YouTube), Vimeo, Netflix and many other companies.

Although Flash has recently added support for H.264, the video on almost all Flash websites currently requires an older generation decoder that is not implemented in mobile chips and must be run in software. The difference is striking: on an iPhone, for example, H.264 videos play for up to 10 hours, while videos decoded in software play for less than 5 hours before the battery is fully drained.

When websites re-encode their videos using H.264, they can offer them without using Flash at all. They play perfectly in browsers like Apple’s Safari and Google’s Chrome without any plugins whatsoever, and look great on iPhones, iPods and iPads.

Fifth, there’s Touch.

Flash was designed for PCs using mice, not for touch screens using fingers. For example, many Flash websites rely on “rollovers”, which pop up menus or other elements when the mouse arrow hovers over a specific spot. Apple’s revolutionary multi-touch interface doesn’t use a mouse, and there is no concept of a rollover. Most Flash websites will need to be rewritten to support touch-based devices. If developers need to rewrite their Flash websites, why not use modern technologies like HTML5, CSS and JavaScript?

Even if iPhones, iPods and iPads ran Flash, it would not solve the problem that most Flash websites need to be rewritten to support touch-based devices.

Sixth, the most important reason.

Besides the fact that Flash is closed and proprietary, has major technical drawbacks, and doesn’t support touch based devices, there is an even more important reason we do not allow Flash on iPhones, iPods and iPads. We have discussed the downsides of using Flash to play video and interactive content from websites, but Adobe also wants developers to adopt Flash to create apps that run on our mobile devices.

We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform. If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and tools, they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the third party chooses to adopt the new features. We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers.

This becomes even worse if the third party is supplying a cross platform development tool. The third party may not adopt enhancements from one platform unless they are available on all of their supported platforms. Hence developers only have access to the lowest common denominator set of features. Again, we cannot accept an outcome where developers are blocked from using our innovations and enhancements because they are not available on our competitor’s platforms.

Flash is a cross platform development tool. It is not Adobe’s goal to help developers write the best iPhone, iPod and iPad apps. It is their goal to help developers write cross platform apps. And Adobe has been painfully slow to adopt enhancements to Apple’s platforms. For example, although Mac OS X has been shipping for almost 10 years now, Adobe just adopted it fully (Cocoa) two weeks ago when they shipped CS5. Adobe was the last major third party developer to fully adopt Mac OS X.

Our motivation is simple – we want to provide the most advanced and innovative platform to our developers, and we want them to stand directly on the shoulders of this platform and create the best apps the world has ever seen. We want to continually enhance the platform so developers can create even more amazing, powerful, fun and useful applications. Everyone wins – we sell more devices because we have the best apps, developers reach a wider and wider audience and customer base, and users are continually delighted by the best and broadest selection of apps on any platform.

Conclusions.

Flash was created during the PC era – for PCs and mice. Flash is a successful business for Adobe, and we can understand why they want to push it beyond PCs. But the mobile era is about low power devices, touch interfaces and open web standards – all areas where Flash falls short.

The avalanche of media outlets offering their content for Apple’s mobile devices demonstrates that Flash is no longer necessary to watch video or consume any kind of web content. And the 200,000 apps on Apple’s App Store proves that Flash isn’t necessary for tens of thousands of developers to create graphically rich applications, including games.

New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind.


Steve Jobs
April, 2010[
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"
2010-04-29, 8:17 AM #2
I thought HTML 5 used H.264 codecs so doesn't that mean it's not really truly open either?
2010-04-29, 8:25 AM #3
Depends on your definition of open, but yeah, it's the reason Firefox doesn't support it.

But in short, Steve Jobs has only one valid point in that whole thing, and that's some older flash videos not encoded in h264. The rest of it is BS or irrelevant or completely hypocritical.

I especially love how he says Flash isn't open, and that all /web/ technology should be open. He was careful to state that, because he wants the openness to apply only to stuff that does not conflict with their own tech, like apps.
2010-04-29, 8:40 AM #4
Translation: "I don't want Flash to be able to compete with our App Store, which generates money for us. Therefore, here are a few reasons I made up to try and make you think that we're not allowing it for other reasons."

When do we get to see Steve's open letter to Microsoft about not allowing SilverLight? lol
2010-04-29, 9:13 AM #5
If the iCrap wasn't a fad among dumbass trend followers, Apple would still be a speck on the radar. Sure they have some useful stuff, but most people buy their crap because they want to be cool with their friends.
Quote Originally Posted by FastGamerr
"hurr hairy guy said my backhair looks dumb hurr hairy guy smash"
2010-04-29, 9:55 AM #6
Originally posted by KOP_AoEJedi:
If the iCrap wasn't a fad among dumbass trend followers, Apple would still be a speck on the radar. Sure they have some useful stuff, but most people buy their crap because they want to be cool with their friends.


I don't think it matters why people buy their products. They are bought, and they gives them a big voice.

I don't use any of their products, myself. They're too controlling of how you use their stuff. But, at least they're finally adopting more industry standards.
"Flowers and a landscape were the only attractions here. And so, as there was no good reason for coming, nobody came."
2010-04-29, 10:33 AM #7
Originally posted by Bobbert:
I don't think it matters why people buy their products. They are bought, and they gives them a big voice.

I don't use any of their products, myself. They're too controlling of how you use their stuff. But, at least they're finally adopting more industry standards.


It absolutely matters why. Take Microsoft for example.. everyone hates them, yet, they sell billions of copies of their hated software... why? Because it's really useful, and there aren't many alternatives.

Apple on the other hand, is banking on a trend. When, and it is when (because all trends die), it dies... hopefully so will Apple, and with any luck, Steve Jobs as well.
Quote Originally Posted by FastGamerr
"hurr hairy guy said my backhair looks dumb hurr hairy guy smash"
2010-04-29, 10:39 AM #8
Yea man it's totally reasonable to wish death upon someone that sells a product you might not like.
"Honey, you got real ugly."
2010-04-29, 10:42 AM #9
Yeah, for real, **** you guy who invented the snuggie, I hope you choke on a dick and die
2010-04-29, 10:44 AM #10
I only really care about points four, five, and six and I think he's right about them
一个大西瓜
2010-04-29, 10:55 AM #11
Originally posted by KOP_AoEJedi:
If the iCrap wasn't a fad among dumbass trend followers, Apple would still be a speck on the radar. Sure they have some useful stuff, but most people buy their crap because they want to be cool with their friends.


Living in the Apple snob capital of the world (SF Bay Area) I couldn't agree more. The white colored products are such a fashion statement it's ridiculous. But I can't say I find the practice anything less than admirable. They really have their market dicked in the teeth.
2010-04-29, 10:59 AM #12
Originally posted by Steven:
Yeah, for real, **** you guy who invented the snuggie, I hope you choke on a dick and die



I dunno. I mean I :argh: the damn thing. :suicide:

But I gotta give credit to the guy for being able to sell a blanket with sleeves.

It's a pretty retarded concept. WEAR SOMETHING WARMER or USE A BLANKET. You don't need a friggin snuggie.
2010-04-29, 11:14 AM #13
Originally posted by Squirrel King:
I dunno. I mean I :argh: the damn thing. :suicide:

But I gotta give credit to the guy for being able to sell a blanket with sleeves.

It's a pretty retarded concept. WEAR SOMETHING WARMER or USE A BLANKET. You don't need a friggin snuggie.


It's a ****ing robe worn backwards!
2010-04-29, 11:18 AM #14
Yeah, **** that guy, I hope some one breaks a dildo off in his ass and it gives him an infection
2010-04-29, 11:22 AM #15
This was my reply when a buddy of mine, who works at the Apple store, emailed me this letter.

Summary: I've designed the iPhone not to work with Flash. Blame Adobe.

Also, he has a screwed up idea of what's open and what isn't.
Little angel go away
Come again some other day
Devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say
2010-04-29, 11:25 AM #16
Originally posted by KOP_AoEJedi:
It absolutely matters why. Take Microsoft for example.. everyone hates them, yet, they sell billions of copies of their hated software... why? Because it's really useful, and there aren't many alternatives.

Apple on the other hand, is banking on a trend. When, and it is when (because all trends die), it dies... hopefully so will Apple, and with any luck, Steve Jobs as well.


Because nothing apple makes is remotely productive or useful, and it's all Steve Jobs fault so yeah lets hope he dies. Jesus christ dude, get a little dramatic? DEATH TO STEVE JOBS BECAUSE HE HELPED DESIGN PRODUCTS PEOPLE BUY!

And who the hell are you to tell people what they should or shouldn't buy. Let them buy their "worthless crap" if they want to. THEY obviously don't find it worthless or else they wouldn't buy it. Just because they want it and you don't doesn't mean you are right and they are a bunch of *******s. I didn't realize you were such a superior human being. Are you really that superior that you will criticize people for buying what maximizes their happiness? If people want an iPod to be cool, so what? That's not Apple's fault. They are doing what they are supposed to be doing, making money. You should maybe go wish death among people who make Apple successful, not Apple themselves. Apple wouldn't be where it is without PEOPLE buying their product. It's not like one day they flipped a switch and became an awesome power.

Their marketing being "less than admirable" and having their "market dicked in the teeth". Why would you start a business otherwise? Yes, because it would make perfect sense to start a business and develop products people won't buy. That's the way to profits right. Correct me if I'm wrong, but businesses try to find their markets? I'm pretty sure they can't be successful otherwise.

:carl:
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"
2010-04-29, 11:29 AM #17
The mouseover thing is valid.
2010-04-29, 11:32 AM #18
Originally posted by Martyn:
The mouseover thing is valid.


Why can't you just have a pointer icon like a mouse does, and move it around by dragging it?

simple solution...:suicide:
2010-04-29, 11:40 AM #19
Originally posted by KOP_AoEJedi:
It absolutely matters why. Take Microsoft for example.. everyone hates them, yet, they sell billions of copies of their hated software... why? Because it's really useful, and there aren't many alternatives.

Apple on the other hand, is banking on a trend. When, and it is when (because all trends die), it dies... hopefully so will Apple, and with any luck, Steve Jobs as well.


I <3 MS
2010-04-29, 11:42 AM #20
Originally posted by Martyn:
The mouseover thing is valid.


Until you realize that flash supports this crazy thing called "clicks".

Any site that uses rollovers in their flash could VERY EASILY change it to clicks. Ask mb, I would not be surprised if all it took was a find/replace. Steve Jobs acts like you have to entirely remake your website.

Also, battery life is a non-issue. If people want to use their battery up, let them. In addition, highly animated CSS/JS in websites can devour battery just as fast as flash, and even worse, is that the Flash is faster and has a lot, lot more functionality.

Finally, the third party framework "they might not implement all of our APIs as fast/as well!" is a complete load of BS. All they want to do is force people to use their proprietary platform. It is EXACTLY the closed platform that they say they hate about Adobe.
2010-04-29, 11:45 AM #21
Originally posted by Squirrel King:
Why can't you just have a pointer icon like a mouse does, and move it around by dragging it?

simple solution...:suicide:



Because that would feel retarded

That's how it's done on tablet PCs except at least with tablet PCs there's an active digitizer so you can move the mouse by floating above the screen and click by tapping. If you had to move the mouse by dragging and click by stopping and tapping it'd feel even more blahri3wofea
一个大西瓜
2010-04-29, 11:48 AM #22
Well, yea, that's what I was thinking heh. Tablet PCs.

Well, then, how about a button in the corner of screen you can hold when you want to mimick a mouse over whereever your pressing? But in general, some flash needs more accuracy than a finger, so I'd say in some cases your screwed no matter what.
2010-04-29, 11:51 AM #23
Originally posted by Cool Matty:

Also, battery life is a non-issue. If people want to use their battery up, let them.
This is a philosophical question of letting people do what they want with their devices or ensuring that devices work a certain way (designated by the company) for all customers and for Apple's positioning and brand strategy it makes sense to do the latter.

Quote:
Finally, the third party framework "they might not implement all of our APIs as fast/as well!" is a complete load of BS. All they want to do is force people to use their proprietary platform. It is EXACTLY the closed platform that they say they hate about Adobe.
Apple thinks open standards are good for Web but bad for OS, which is a position that they have to take if they want to control the way their products operate and are used as mentioned before

Apple does not think open standards are an inherently good thing but it knows the developer community does think so and that's why it is taking this stance
一个大西瓜
2010-04-29, 11:51 AM #24
Originally posted by mscbuck:
Because nothing apple makes is remotely productive or useful, and it's all Steve Jobs fault so yeah lets hope he dies. Jesus christ dude, get a little dramatic? DEATH TO STEVE JOBS BECAUSE HE HELPED DESIGN PRODUCTS PEOPLE BUY!

And who the hell are you to tell people what they should or shouldn't buy. Let them buy their "worthless crap" if they want to. THEY obviously don't find it worthless or else they wouldn't buy it. Just because they want it and you don't doesn't mean you are right and they are a bunch of *******s. I didn't realize you were such a superior human being. Are you really that superior that you will criticize people for buying what maximizes their happiness? If people want an iPod to be cool, so what? That's not Apple's fault. They are doing what they are supposed to be doing, making money. You should maybe go wish death among people who make Apple successful, not Apple themselves. Apple wouldn't be where it is without PEOPLE buying their product. It's not like one day they flipped a switch and became an awesome power.

:carl:


Looks like someone loves their Apple products a lot. Steve Jobs, I hate the man for MORE than just creating Apple junk. The man is a douche. His company is a douche. They throw out lawsuits all the time for 'patent infringments' for extremely general technology that they only very very slightly modified and then try to tag anyone who comes close to it with a suit. Ohhh you have a mouse? Lawsuit... you use touch screens?? Lawsuit!

Not to mention that whole debacle Jobs was trying to push (or maybe still is) to put ads in your devices. As in pop ups on your iPhones, iTouch, and iPads. No, not on websites... The kind that can spring up in the middle of WTF ever you are doing, and prevent you from continuing until you click or close it.

I can't find the exact article now, but they're basically going to be the mobile equivalent of a DVD with unskippable previews... garbage.


Sorry Steve Jobs, but I hope Microsoft and Google crush you. Literally if possible.
Quote Originally Posted by FastGamerr
"hurr hairy guy said my backhair looks dumb hurr hairy guy smash"
2010-04-29, 11:55 AM #25
Um not that I support ads in apps but iAd basically provides a framework for ads that were already in apps (the little banner ads at the bottom). It's not adding anything that wasn't already there (and added by the developers of the apps). It doesn't do anything unless you click on it and unlike before if you click on it it won't send you to Safari, it opens up over your app so you can close it and still be in your app. And it makes the ads "better" (i.e. almost like little mini apps themselves rather than web ads).
一个大西瓜
2010-04-29, 11:59 AM #26
To me, that's like paying for a movie only to have a banner scroll across the bottom advertising trojan condoms. It's offensive that I'm paying for an ad.

Ads need to stay in free media, TV, Radio, Busses, Billboards... whatever. Paying for ads is wrong, I'm sorry. That's just how I see it.

"Oh but the ads make the app cheaper." Like hell, anyone who believes that is a fool unless there is specifically two versions, one without ads, and one with. In which there is a price difference.
Quote Originally Posted by FastGamerr
"hurr hairy guy said my backhair looks dumb hurr hairy guy smash"
2010-04-29, 12:00 PM #27
Originally posted by KOP_AoEJedi:
Looks like someone loves their Apple products a lot.


And? Isn't that the point when you buy something? Why'd you buy the computer you are typing this on right now? Because you hated it? God forbid people love products you don't like. You realize how arrogant and snobbish you sound right now. Fine, take offense to the way Apple acts like arrogant douchebags, but you are literally ****ting all over people who buy things you don't like. NOT TO MENTION you just wished death upon someone who hasn't even committed a crime. Please tell me if you were given a gun, and you were in the room with Steve Jobs, if you would shoot him. Like really, honestly, are you going to shoot him?

(Sidenote: Let's go through all the stuff I've owned, and may of the following brands I've owned multiples of. Zunes (I still am a HUGE Zune supporter), Acers, IBMs, Dells, eMachines(*shudder*), HP, Compaqs, run Win 7 on my desktop at home which is a PC and I also run it on my MacbooPro, and yes, 1 iPod, a Macbook which I had concurrently with my IBM which now is a Macbook Pro, and an unlocked iPhone. DUR APPLE FANBOI).
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"
2010-04-29, 12:02 PM #28
Originally posted by KOP_AoEJedi:
To me, that's like paying for a movie only to have a banner scroll across the bottom advertising trojan condoms. It's offensive that I'm paying for an ad.

Ads need to stay in free media, TV, Radio, Busses, Billboards... whatever. Paying for ads is wrong, I'm sorry. That's just how I see it.

"Oh but the ads make the app cheaper." Like hell, anyone who believes that is a fool unless there is specifically two versions, one without ads, and one with. In which there is a price difference.


I mean the point is the ads were ALREADY THERE BEFORE iAd
iAd hasn't changed anything about the ads being there, it's just made the ad itself "better" and getting out of the ad easier
一个大西瓜
2010-04-29, 12:02 PM #29
PS Adobe CEO responds

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/04/29/adobe-ceo-responds-to-steve-jobs-thoughts-on-flash/
一个大西瓜
2010-04-29, 12:13 PM #30
Some of you are accusing Apple of doing things that Microsoft has also been doing for quite some time yet I rarely ever see anyone complaining about Microsoft. You guys remind me of Republicans (tea-baggers) that accuse Democrats of doing things that Republicans also do (e.g: spending). It seems to me that there's a lot of hypocrisy going around here.

I would also like to add that I'm not dumb & I'm certainly not a fanboy but I do own 2 apple products which I enjoy (an iMac & an iPad). There are a lot of reasonable people that own Apple products. Apple obviously puts a lot of effort in to aesthetics & design but that's hardly a reason to assume that everyone that purchases an Apple product is doing so because it's trendy. I bought an iMac because I enjoy using OSX, I got a $100 discount, because Apple products have been reliable for m & because I like the way that it looks (aesthetics & design are important to some people). I bought an iPad because it suits my needs better than anything else at the time. If you throw Linux on an iPad-like device & if it has all of the same functionality or more I'll get it instead. However, that's not the case.
? :)
2010-04-29, 12:18 PM #31
Yeah, I was super-pissed when Microsoft said that all Windows apps had to be originally written in C# or VB.
2010-04-29, 12:31 PM #32
If you'll take the time to skim back through the thread you'll see that there are examples of people accusing Apple of doing things that Microsoft also does. Your sarcastic statement doesn't change that fact. I recognize the fact that people get up in arms about Apple instead of Microsoft because Apple is always in the limelight. We see the same thing w/ Walmart. However, it'd be nice, just for once, if you guys would stop pretending that Apple is the only company doing bad things & admit that other companies (whose products most of you use) are doing many of the same things. However, I recognize that it's an Apple thread, so feel free to move along & ignore me.
? :)
2010-04-29, 12:38 PM #33
I actually don't think many of the 'bad things' (for example, dictating how products should be used, maintaining a closed/proprietary platform, trying to shut out Flash from competing with the App Store on mobile Apple devices) they are doing are bad but that's just me

Everything they do essentially comes back to having obsessive control over their products and ecosystem -- everything associated with anything with their name on it has to be as controlled as possible to fit their idea of what is right. Everything they do is more or less consistent with this.
一个大西瓜
2010-04-29, 12:57 PM #34
Will continue to not support Apple, but this still isn't enough for me to start a vendetta against them. When people ask me why I don't have any Apple stuff (as a geek I'm almost expected to these days) I'm more than happy to explain why, but I don't go out of my way to bash Apple any time it comes up. I'm more than happy to use other people's Apple stuff as well, eg. ipod or Mac computer at work, I just won't be buying them for myself any time soon.
2010-04-29, 1:58 PM #35
Originally posted by KOP_AoEJedi:
To me, that's like paying for a movie only to have a banner scroll across the bottom advertising trojan condoms. It's offensive that I'm paying for an ad.


Ads are typically in free apps, not paid ones. You're not paying for an ad.
twitter | flickr | last.fm | facebook |
2010-04-29, 2:58 PM #36
I don't like apple products because the hardware sucks.

I've dropped samsung phones in water, had one that got run over that still worked, I had a blackjack that I dropped outside drunk that got rained on all day and still worked the next day after it dried out.

I've got a samsung jack now, sadly it doesn't seem as sturdy as the Blackjack with it's thick rubberized plastic case thing going on. It's still seen a lot of action that would put an Iphone down for the count.

I have a dell laptop that survived a wicked car accident with only minor scuffs. (A lexus ran a red and hit me on my driver's side door going about 50mph.) My laptop was sitting on the seat on the passenger side and went from the seat to my face bounced and hit my passenger side window. (hard enough I was SUPER surprised the window didn't ****ing break. Drivers side window didn't break either. You should see the door, it taco'd all the way into the seat and left a permanent impression on the seat.

My friend's aluminum macbook's screen broke after a jack russel walked on the back of it with the lid closed. LAME.
2010-04-29, 3:03 PM #37
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
I thought HTML 5 used H.264 codecs so doesn't that mean it's not really truly open either?


HTML5 does not currently have any standard codec. H.264 is not a candidate because it is encumbered by too many patents. There's a rumor that Google is going to put VP8 in the public domain, but if HTML 5 standardizes on VP8 none of the Apple devices will support hardware-accelerated video.
2010-04-29, 6:09 PM #38
Ever since Steve Jobs said that Java is a defunct platform that no one uses anymore, I've pretty much dismissed him as an idiot when it comes to anything technological.

That said, I own an iPhone because it is a darn nice phone. I hated the Blackberry mouseball, didn't like the Palms and the stylus, and liked the fact that, because the iPhone's browser didn't broadcast itself as a mobile browser, I could more easily view non-mobile sites. After this whole tiff Adobe, which followed a tiff with Google, I'm not planning on ever going back when my two year contract is up.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2010-04-29, 6:49 PM #39
Originally posted by Pommy:
This is a philosophical question of letting people do what they want with their devices or ensuring that devices work a certain way (designated by the company) for all customers and for Apple's positioning and brand strategy it makes sense to do the latter.


Of course it's better for Apple. It's not better for the consumer. Who gives two craps about what's better for Apple over the consumer?

Quote:
Apple thinks open standards are good for Web but bad for OS, which is a position that they have to take if they want to control the way their products operate and are used as mentioned before

Apple does not think open standards are an inherently good thing but it knows the developer community does think so and that's why it is taking this stance


No, no, it isn't. At all. Not even remotely. Everyone recognizes that this is simply a cover-up, a bunch of crap excuses to avoid competition, and Adobe themselves are more than happy to point it out.

Apple wants open standards only when it works out best for them. That's it. Period. They want it their way, and if the consumer and developers lose, they don't care, as long as they come out smelling like roses.

Originally posted by KOP_AoEJedi:
To me, that's like paying for a movie only to have a banner scroll across the bottom advertising trojan condoms. It's offensive that I'm paying for an ad.

Ads need to stay in free media, TV, Radio, Busses, Billboards... whatever. Paying for ads is wrong, I'm sorry. That's just how I see it.

"Oh but the ads make the app cheaper." Like hell, anyone who believes that is a fool unless there is specifically two versions, one without ads, and one with. In which there is a price difference.


You do realize not all apps cost money, right? Some apps are free, and are funded solely on ads.

Originally posted by Mentat:
If you'll take the time to skim back through the thread you'll see that there are examples of people accusing Apple of doing things that Microsoft also does. Your sarcastic statement doesn't change that fact. I recognize the fact that people get up in arms about Apple instead of Microsoft because Apple is always in the limelight. We see the same thing w/ Walmart. However, it'd be nice, just for once, if you guys would stop pretending that Apple is the only company doing bad things & admit that other companies (whose products most of you use) are doing many of the same things. However, I recognize that it's an Apple thread, so feel free to move along & ignore me.


Microsoft's a helluva lot more open than Apple is, and that's sad.

Originally posted by Pommy:
I actually don't think many of the 'bad things' (for example, dictating how products should be used, maintaining a closed/proprietary platform, trying to shut out Flash from competing with the App Store on mobile Apple devices) they are doing are bad but that's just me

Everything they do essentially comes back to having obsessive control over their products and ecosystem -- everything associated with anything with their name on it has to be as controlled as possible to fit their idea of what is right. Everything they do is more or less consistent with this.


You act as if that's a good thing.
2010-04-29, 7:38 PM #40
This is pretty much the last straw for me and Apple I think. I was planning on getting a new iPhone this summer and a MacBook Pro next year, but I think I'll take a good hard look at Android instead, and WinMo after that if Android doesn't cut it for me. I'll also be sticking to PC's. I'm sick of the bull**** with Apple.
Little angel go away
Come again some other day
Devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say
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