Massassi Forums Logo

This is the static archive of the Massassi Forums. The forums are closed indefinitely. Thanks for all the memories!

You can also download Super Old Archived Message Boards from when Massassi first started.

"View" counts are as of the day the forums were archived, and will no longer increase.

ForumsDiscussion Forum → E3 2010: Project Natal Abortion
123
E3 2010: Project Natal Abortion
2010-06-14, 11:39 PM #41
I kind of agreed with you until now. <_<

Now I just think you're wrong. I don't know about mods because I've only played both games on the Xbox 360, but GTA4's driving is to me better than in any other sandbox game ever. The vehicles are FELT, they relay an adequate sense of mass and inertia, and they respond to bumps, collisions and terrain logically and believably. SR2's vehicles feel a lot less like you're driving something. The way Niko motions at the wheel is also a little thing that does surprisingly much to enhance immersion: he turns the wheel like you actually would because it has a realistic-seeming turning radius, he turns his head to look behind when reversing, and he responds to the car interacting with the environment with his body jerking appropriately. He looks like a man driving a car.

I hated GTA4's driving at first, before I got the gist of it completely. Now it's most natural and satisfying. I know, however, that you've played the game enough to have made a final conclusion and there's no changing it.

GTA4's on foot controls, on the other hand, are rather horrendous. Clunky as hell, and I hate how there's no getting around the camera automatically readjusting itself. SR2 does a far better job in this regard.
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2010-06-14, 11:51 PM #42
I played GTA-IV all the way through on xbox, got the pc one cheap through steam, figured that with mods I might be able to fix it's issues, but no.
And GTA-IV for me is not a game I can keep playing, you go through the story and you stop.
SR2 I have finished many times now, a few times on my own and a bunch of times with various friends. A lot of this has to do with all the fun minigames and the enjoyment of gang wars and employing the various tactics in the game that changes greatly depending on who you play with.
But GTA-IV's main deterrent for me is the driving is just not fun. While I agree with all the details in GTA such as Niko's actions do help greatly, the car's driving does nothing for me. Not the turning radius, not the speed, and certainly not when you bump into other cars, that's the most annoying thing (I agree Niko looks realistic in those instances though, just not his car).

But anyway, I have met the odd person who actually likes GTA-iv's driving, so I guess it's just each to their own
(weirdo)

;p
You can't judge a book by it's file size
2010-06-15, 12:11 AM #43
Just so we're clear, SR3 is possibly the game I'm looking forward to the most out of this E3 lineup, I'm really excited to see whether they manage to keep the fun while taking the presentation (which I thought was one of SR2's weaknesses, like you said it's pretty buggy, and also it's not the prettiest game and would do well with a longer drawing distance) to this decade. Along with NHL 11, which is perhaps because I've clocked countless of hours into NHL 10's online play (however buggy it is) and am hoping for vast improvements to its netcode.
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2010-06-15, 5:12 AM #44
Driver: San Francisco looks pretty spiffy and true to the original. :D
nope.
2010-06-15, 8:35 AM #45
Originally posted by Deadman:
Ewwwwww GTA4 for driving? Never, ever, ever.
If SR3 has GTA4 driving then I'm going to go Krokodile hunting with my shotgun.

Even with mods to make the driving more realistic instead of the half-assedjob GTA did it still falls short.

GTA4 told a good story, but SR2 is better in every way IMO


So let me get this straight, you think SR2 has more realistic driving than GTA4?

Why don't you throw away your drivers license and sell your car because I don't want to be on the road with people like you next to me on the freeway.
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2010-06-15, 8:48 AM #46
Obviously all cars can make turns around 90 corners at 80mph! GTA4's driving was more difficult because it's more realistic, but I enjoyed the feeling of additional realism. Besides, wasn't so realistic as to be annoying, like Forza or Gran Turismo.
2010-06-15, 9:19 AM #47
New Zelda looks like crap. More Wiimote gimmicks. Nintendo has really gone down the drain in the past couple years in terms of their core IP. Maybe kids love it, but I don't want to sit around the couch and make jack-off motions to get Link to swing his sword... I'm a fan of *gasp* buttons. I can't wait for the motion-controlled fad to die.
2010-06-15, 2:53 PM #48
Originally posted by Cool Matty:
Obviously all cars can make turns around 90 corners at 80mph! GTA4's driving was more difficult because it's more realistic, but I enjoyed the feeling of additional realism. Besides, wasn't so realistic as to be annoying, like Forza or Gran Turismo.

I do hate to agree with CM, but here I do.
nope.
2010-06-15, 2:56 PM #49
Originally posted by Darth:
New Zelda looks like crap. More Wiimote gimmicks. Nintendo has really gone down the drain in the past couple years in terms of their core IP. Maybe kids love it, but I don't want to sit around the couch and make jack-off motions to get Link to swing his sword... I'm a fan of *gasp* buttons. I can't wait for the motion-controlled fad to die.


It's amusing how you keep calling it a fad. Fads don't last this long, nor this complex. Just because you think everything should be button-based, doesn't mean the majority does.
2010-06-15, 2:59 PM #50
But the new Zelda game uses buttons too so...?
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2010-06-15, 3:13 PM #51
Originally posted by Cool Matty:
It's amusing how you keep calling it a fad. Fads don't last this long, nor this complex. Just because you think everything should be button-based, doesn't mean the majority does.


*shrug* Fad may be a bad choice of words. Point is, I hate it. You may like it, good for you. For me, my Wii makes a nice paperweight and dust collector.
2010-06-15, 3:15 PM #52
Give it to Squirrel King, he might have some creative uses for it.
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2010-06-15, 3:36 PM #53
Remember, Squirrel King; Always use the wiimote condom.
nope.
2010-06-15, 5:28 PM #54
Updated with more copypasted info from the Games forum at SomethingAwful.com from user Gyoru retrieved 15 June, in the year of our Lord 2010.
2010-06-15, 10:49 PM #55
Originally posted by Cloud:
Metal Gear Rising looks good, but it does seem a bit more like Ninja Gaiden Afro Samurai than Metal Gear.


I wonder if it'll become as quickly repetitive.
omnia mea mecum porto
2010-06-15, 10:58 PM #56
Originally posted by zanardi:
So let me get this straight, you think SR2 has more realistic driving than GTA4?


At no point did I say anything like that, thanks for playing
You can't judge a book by it's file size
2010-06-16, 7:07 AM #57
I read that as "Gabe Newell coming to PS3"
Where would they find the space?
2010-06-16, 7:13 AM #58
Even the Xbox isn't big enough!!
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2010-06-16, 7:20 AM #59
Originally posted by Cool Matty:
Obviously all cars can make turns around 90 corners at 80mph! GTA4's driving was more difficult because it's more realistic, but I enjoyed the feeling of additional realism. Besides, wasn't so realistic as to be annoying, like Forza or Gran Turismo.

A lot of games have unrealistic driving and a terribly difficult and annoying as a result. The Flat Out games, for example, have TERRIBLE steering on all the cars. It's like the steering column is made out of rubber... there's an elastic lag between when you turn the stick/wheel and when the car actually turns. It's impossible to jerk a car back and forth because it's so soft. It makes me think no one on the Flat Out team has ever driven a car.

I don't know about those games, but a lot of games' car physics aren't just unrealistic so much as bad. It doesn't need to be perfect but it should more or less respond the way you think it would in real life. Most third person shooter characters more or less walk and run in a realistic fashion, though sometimes they can turn and pivot too quickly. Most guns fire in a realistic fashion... you "pull the trigger" and it shoots where the crosshair is and the bullet moves fast. A good example here is the early Hitman games or Indiana Jones Infernal Machine, where the bullets moved about as fast as blasters in JK. It was very distracting. Guns, characters, doors, rigid body physics in games aren't perfect but they more or less react to how you'd expect. When basic simulation is just wild and different it's usually bad, even for games that aren't meant to be realistic.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2010-06-16, 7:26 AM #60
Originally posted by Deadman:
At no point did I say anything like that, thanks for playing


I didn't say you said it, I said you think it.
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2010-06-16, 7:36 AM #61
I think you'd still be wrong.

Saints Row 2 is a better game precisely because it played more like previous GTA games than GTA4 did. I don't play GTA games because I want a realistic driving experience, and this is where GTA4 went horribly wrong.

(I play as Baby Mario in Mario Kart because I like unrealistic handling)
Detty. Professional Expert.
Flickr Twitter
2010-06-16, 7:43 AM #62
I didn't mind the driving in GTA4... What I didn't like was the whole setting of the game. San Andreas was way more immersive and fun to me. The Liberty City setting was pretty bland in my mind.
2010-06-16, 8:04 AM #63
Gran Turismo 5 to feature Dunsfield Test Track and his holiness The Stig:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/gran-turismo-5-trailer?VideoBrowserMode=categories&VideoCategory=OtherStuff
:awesome:
2010-06-16, 8:14 AM #64
Originally posted by zanardi:
I didn't say you said it, I said you think it.


Which is a very bizarre and incorrect assumption.

Saints Row's main appeal has nothing to do with realism, it's all about fun (not that the game is silly and nonsensical or anything).
You can't judge a book by it's file size
2010-06-16, 10:41 AM #65
Regardless... so you don't think SR2 has more realistic driving than GTA4.

And I dont think it is a very bizarre and incorrect assumption at all when you say:
Quote:
but SR2 is better in every way IMO


thanks for playing hur hur
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2010-06-16, 10:45 AM #66
But I get it, we both like opposite games for the different reasons. No big deal :)
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2010-06-16, 10:47 AM #67
better != more realistic

hur hur
You can't judge a book by it's file size
2010-06-16, 10:47 AM #68
The only thing remotely interesting about Natal at the current time is the personal training program. The fact that this thing has the potential to teach you martial arts is amazing, as anyone that's been trained in them knows it's nothing more than repeatedly doing patterns and stretching, at least until the higher belts. This will be more than enough to get people to that level.

Still, it's nothing interesting really so far, those little dinky games they are premiering with the project SUCK BALLS. This thing has potential, I just hope developer's are able to take advantage of it and make more interesting and in depth games than a tiger licking the screen while my retarded kid thinks it's really kissing her.
2010-06-16, 11:25 AM #69
Originally posted by Temperamental:
as anyone that's been trained in them knows it's nothing more than repeatedly doing patterns and stretching, at least until the higher belts.

This is a very distorted, Karate Kid, Hollywoodesque view of martial arts. In no credible system could you possibly test and gain rank by doing patterns (I assume you mean forms) and stretches. The basic forms in taekwondo, for example, incorporate basic stances, strikes and blocks. You can't effectively learn forms without knowing how to kick. I don't know of a credible system where you'd be able to gain rank without sparring or at least practicing techniques on other people (such as with aikido, which usually doesn't have sparring). The rank tests themselves should have a practical portion that includes sparring or otherwise hands on (hah) testing with an instructor. I never progressed far in my training, but someone like happydud could tell you a lot more about it if you're interested.

That being said, Kinect (Natal) could certainly be used to get people interested in martial arts. Just like Rock Band won't teach you to play the drums, it can get you interested and give you a very basic idea of what to expect. And that's fine, and I think it's great.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2010-06-16, 11:49 AM #70
Originally posted by Deadman:
better != more realistic

hur hur


Yeah in your opinion. I like my games more realistic. I like when developers take time to take something physically unreal, and try to make it as near real as they can. In my small career in game developement, this was my most fun challenge was to create things as perfect as they would be in real life. It's easy to throw **** together and call it "fun".
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2010-06-16, 12:09 PM #71
Originally posted by zanardi:
Yeah in your opinion.

No ****, who else's opinion would it be? You're taking his statement out of context. You're taking his criteria for better and substituting your own. WE KNOW that you think realism is better. Deadman is saying that isn't the case for him, which is why he thinks Saint's Row is better.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2010-06-16, 12:14 PM #72
Argueing over opinions is retarded.
2010-06-16, 12:24 PM #73
Originally posted by zanardi:
But I get it, we both like opposite games for the different reasons. No big deal :)


jesus ****ing christ people...
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2010-06-16, 1:03 PM #74
Sorry I've been dealing with administrative people all day and my patience is thin :argh: :suicide:
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2010-06-16, 1:31 PM #75
I feel your pain
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2010-06-16, 4:37 PM #76
Quote:
This is a very distorted, Karate Kid, Hollywoodesque view of martial arts. In no credible system could you possibly test and gain rank by doing patterns (I assume you mean forms) and stretches. The basic forms in taekwondo, for example, incorporate basic stances, strikes and blocks. You can't effectively learn forms without knowing how to kick. I don't know of a credible system where you'd be able to gain rank without sparring or at least practicing techniques on other people (such as with aikido, which usually doesn't have sparring). The rank tests themselves should have a practical portion that includes sparring or otherwise hands on (hah) testing with an instructor. I never progressed far in my training, but someone like happydud could tell you a lot more about it if you're interested.


I used to take/instruct Martial Arts classes in Tae Kwon Do until I got up to my blue belt and got back into Hockey.
2010-06-16, 8:18 PM #77
McDojo
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2010-06-16, 9:33 PM #78
Originally posted by Temperamental:
I used to take/instruct Martial Arts classes in Tae Kwon Do until I got up to my blue belt and got back into Hockey.


Ah, hockey, the deadliest martial art of all.
You can't judge a book by it's file size
2010-06-17, 8:13 AM #79
Hey man those blades are friggin sharp!
2010-06-17, 5:34 PM #80
Originally posted by Temperamental:
...as anyone that's been trained in them knows it's nothing more than repeatedly doing patterns and stretching...


Methinks you've gone to the wrong schools, freind.
omnia mea mecum porto
123

↑ Up to the top!