Antony, what you have to remember is that radical leftists like him identify far more with the terrorists that suffered such tremendous injustice at the hands of Americans than they do with Americans.

Without that concept of these people as "Americans", "Infidels", "Capitalists", whatever, ... these people (innocent in REALITY but not in these terrorists' minds) would still have been alive.

If there's no 'they' or 'us' in our sick little minds - where's the problem? How could the WTC have been a target? Now get this, we respond to these attacks by being MORE fervorous and psychotic in saluting flags, or saying 'We need to stand up as Christians', etc... We, just like the terrorists, take these attacks personally, like all psychotic self-important people. You'd better KNOW our sense of righteousness we have is the EXACT same sense of righteousness that mindraped these terrorists into flying into the twin towers. - the EXACT same sense, not 'better', not 'worse'. We're in every way *exactly* the same as these terrorists. The world needs less of this America*-sense, not more of it.

IMHO

*insert any country here

Great insight! You really like to label stuff, don't you?

It was certainly devised as an attack on America, with an iconic target in an iconic city. It may not have had a direct impact on Wookie's family or friends, but he never said that anyway. If it's designed to provoke a collective response from Americans, and aimed to shatter their sense of national security and of superiority as perceived by the terrorists, how is that not an attack on America?

I would say that the people who lost relatives and friends on 9/11, and to some degree even people who just happened to be living in NYC at the time, have greater and more meaningful reason to mourn the attacks than someone like Wookie who presumably wasn't directly affected. However, this doesn't remove the societal, political and psychological implications of 9/11 upon and after the initial loss of life.

These unfounded controversies such as the building of the cultural center (which, when you read up on it, seems entirely unconnected to radical Islamism) result from a combination of things such as needing a scapegoat, xenophobia (see: Sarn in a past thread saying Islam is infiltrating America) and jumping on bandwagons that seem to make sense when you're unable or don't care to view them from a critical and reasonable perspective.

Hey, this is perfect actually... You illustrate exactly that psychotic **** I'm talking about. You read my post and this 'RADICAL LEFTIST' concept in your head gets triggered - and IMMEDIATELY you're at war!

The problem is in you

No, I didn't draw the conclusion from the one post that you are a radical leftist. You are a radical leftist and you routinely post radically left views. That's how I know you are radically left. Now, if you were Jon`C I would be more skeptical because I'm not sure all of his radically left posts are actually what he believes or the position he chooses to argue to see what responses he gets.

No, I actually proposed disidentifying from labels like left/right, american/non-american, christian/non-christian, etc... If you want to solve the problem, like you pretend you do, you do THAT.

But everything that doesn't agree with your little self-obsession is terrorist, anti-american and leftist, right?

So typical for a BAD GUY

Nobody on Massassi is a radical leftist. I'm a thumping socialist and pretty far left as far as these boards go, but a radical leftist would be a communist or other such loony.

The people you call radical leftists are just ordinary liberals you silly man.

You're more a radical rightist than I am lefty.

A few dozen of them, yes.

Seriously tenshu? What the **** is in your head? The U.S. Has problems, bit it is not THE problem. Having pride in your country is not THE problem. Having pride in your family, your job and your community is perfectly fine and a natural occurrence for almost all people.
The problem comes when a people lose their willingness or ability to question what is being fed to them. The problem is blindly following the ambitions of others without questioning and discovering for yourself if it's right. This is true for religion politics and nearly every facet of secular life as well. There are zealots and madmen in all walks of life these people will certainly not be dissuaded by your "solution".
Most conflicts are not started by regular even "patriotic" people it usually starts with a handful who abuse power.
And you know what. It was not only an attack on the people of new York. Obviously it affected them more directly. But it was an attack on ou entire country! I doubt the jihadists had a particular bone to pick with jus new York.

Actually having too much pride in your country could be a problem. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong but patriotism but the whole WOOO AMERICA **** YEAH WE'RE NUMBER ONE WE'RE NUMBER ONE USA USA WOOOOOOOOOOOOO! **** gets pretty grating.

It's also borderline dangerous.

We don't ***** when you are all like 'HELL YEAH UNITED KINGDOM!'

Pretty sure Baconfish has never done that ever.

But he's from Scotland.

WHATEVER MOTHER****ER

You're just mad because you guys AREN'T #1 anymore.

Yeah, obviously a bloated ego is never a healthy trait. But being confident and patriotic is not bad by any means, you just have to be able to walk kind of a fine line.
Yeah there are a lot of Americans who are jack holes and are like "**** yeah America is number one and everyone else sucks! WOOOO!!!"
I mean really though, if it bothers you then prove them wrong. Or show them how America is not number one or whatever. It doesn't bother me but, I guess I American so I probably have a different point of view than someone who is not.

Of course. The right one.

Many mistaken nationalism for patriotism.