You didn't answer the questions. I think it is important for you to answer the questions.

The questions of "who I'm upset" with? I posted an article about Cuban's being upset at the game makers. But it's more of an industry-wide phenomenon than the particular marker.

I think that games that are politicized in this sense should be viewed by folks for what they are: presenting a specific political point of view. Instead the whole "it's just a videogame!" crowd tries to take away space for discussion on important topics: like the role of the media in society.

dot

You're still not really putting forth a coherent point. You're upset with...not the specific game maker, but the entire industry. Why? What do you think they should do instead?

You said you think that people should acknowledge that everything represents some political viewpoint, so does that mean you're ACTUALLY upset at the public?

Guys, he's not saying something super radical here:

Video games are produced in a cultural context. As such they tend to reflect that context. By being consumed, they feed back into that context and reinforce it. This is a normal, unremarkable model of how the media relates to cultural beliefs that anybody who's thought about these things before can relate to. It's culture 101: a culture produces artifacts that perpetuate its values. This is neither nor :downswords:.

The fact that it's such a simple observation is exactly why it is ridiculous to be pointing it out.

How does black ops promote wars?

Obviously the writers of this particular game can be blamed too. I'm pointing out that they're not alone. How is that incoherent to you?

At the public? Huh? I'm not "upset" about these videogames. I'm pointing out that we need to stop depoliticizing certain forms of media (like videogames) and be able to criticize their storylines when they take a political stance that many people oppose.

That's hardly a "radical" point of view.



That's funny, I wrote the last sentence up there before I read this.



I didn't start by just making that observation: I started by posting a criticism of BlackOps, and people's initial responses were things along the lines of "It's just a video game! lol! who cares!" Implying that video games aren't something that can be critiqued in the realm of politics.

It's ridiculous and basic, indeed, to have to point out that they should be subject to political and cultural analysis and debate.



From an AP article:

"Players must shoot their way through the colonial streets of Havana on a mission to assassinate Castro, then a young revolutionary who had recently overthrown dictator Fulgencio Batista. In a twist, they end up killing a body-double and are sent to prison in Siberia.

Cuba said the game attempts to legitimize murder and assassination in the name of entertainment

"This new video game is doubly perverse," the Cubadebate article said. "On the one hand, it glorifies the illegal assassination attempts the United States government planned against the Cuban leader ... and on the other, it stimulates sociopathic attitudes in North American children and adolescents." "

If you can read Spanish, here's the original Cuban article at Cubadebate: http://www.cubadebate.cu/noticias/2010/11/09/nueva-operacion-contra-cuba-eeuu-lanza-videojuego-cuyo-objetivo-es-asesinar-a-fidel/

To use the analogy someone else mentioned earlier (don't remember who it was, could have been you?) I think critiquing the political ideas presented in the game is about as productive as critiquing the political ideas presented in Star Wars. Sure, it COULD prompt intelligent discussion, but in the end you're just bickering over a silly simplistic political idea that is only even included in the media to provide some kind of backdrop for the drama. It's incidental. It doesn't matter. If the videogame (or film) was intended as social commentary, maybe it'd be more reasonable and interesting to discuss, but for these types of media, it's silly. It's fanstasy. It's a shallow excuse to fake-shoot people for fun. You could change the name of the country and it wouldn't matter. You could make the damn thing in space and it wouldn't matter.

Why don't we focus on more pertinent issues like the bush administration's blatant manipulation of the truth and irresponsible and intentional lack of preparation for the nationbuilding mission in Iraq that it undertook? That is important.

Is Jack Thompson really a Cuban agent?

I'm not saying that we should replace discourse of things like war in Iraq and other important national issues (economic crisis, increased war funding, etc.) with a discourse on culture. As a matter of fact, too many "New Left Marxists" have focused too much on culture over the past 40 years or so, which I find problematic for the Left.

But culture is still important, and video games are, like it or not, a large part of American culture at this point. Cultural criticism is important and when part of the culture is built around "let's go kill some commies in the third world!" I think it's important to come out against it (especially when it's making millions of dollars)



Hah yeah right, he lives in Miami doesn't he?

lmao

Keep it coming man this stuff is grade A.

Ok, this doesn't answer my question but I'll half accept it for the effort you put forth.

my mental image of TSM from this thread is some college kid in a Che shirt going through the communism is cool phase with a side of hating America while living here is cool phase

This is exactly what I'm talking about.



Well what more are you looking for?



? I've been a Marxist for quite some time, before and after college. Again, if you're going to condescend to someone, have some substance, otherwise if you can't contribute anything valuable to the thread, maybe keep to yourself?

He supports Castro and self identifies as a Marxist, I think he's at the same point I was 6 years ago. Along with thinking he's found something SO IMPORTANT but everyone else ignores it, this means it's a conspiracy not simply because nobody in their right mind gives a ****.

Weren't Castro and Che pretty bad guys, or is my memory incorrect?

Castro killed everyone who disagreed with him post-revolution, and El Che led a couple bloody revolutions. Yes they are pretty bad guys.

I know, making a single thread on Massassi reposting a story means that I think it's SO IMPORTANT.

Give me a break



Oh please, this is just bull****. The idea that if you disagreed with Castro means you were executed is absurd and based on myth.

George Washington led a bloody revolution, does that make him a bad guy?

Well you know, evidence, facts. I was hoping you actually played the game. Then you could point to direct dialog or action in the game that proves it supports and legitimizes war. Just because you create a video game based around violence and war doesn't mean you think that it's a good thing and you support it, that goes with the players as well.

The same game also has Castro team up with JFK and Nixon to fight off waves of zombies.

Ah good point!

Castro also almost led the world to war over a giant dickwaving contest. Little historical event called "The Gulf War*". You just support him because you get to act cool and smug when people call you out on him being a ****ing idiot.

*it's a joke

Evidence or facts about what? I could cite the "plot" section of it's wikipedia article perhaps? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_duty_black_ops#Plot

You're right, I haven't played the game, but I've played other CoD games and plenty other FPS games to know that it's very unlikely that the American CIA officers are portrayed poorly. I'm assuming you've played it, so would you say that the black ops officers are the bad guys in the game?



Hah, nice



I don't get your joke here, or see what Castro has to do with the Gulf War.

How would supporting Castro "look cool" in any way? Maybe you should try something other than psychology?

And why are all of your "counter-arguments" just personal insults?

My joke is I intentional misnamed the historical event. Liking Castro looks cool to the same kind of people that have Che on their shirts.

The bad guys in the game are the Cuban revolutionaries, Vietcong, NVA, and Spetsnaz.

Are you saying the CIA should be the bad guys, as opposed to various communist forces?

Castro and I share a birthday

I think we need Rob back to being active, because he was always harassing Tibby for being such a Tibby, and I'm pretty sure this needs to happen again.

Also, Detty mentioned Castro teaming up with Nixon and JFK to fight zombies, which tells me that the sociopolitical implications of this game are entirely irrelevant. Because JFK would NOT ally with Nixon.

It doesn't say anywhere about promoting war as a good thing, you keep saying this but it just isn't true. What does officers and bad guys have anything to do with promoting war?

And why should I care about this?



Sure, why not?



Hah



Creating the dichotomy of "Cuban revolutionaries are the evil enemy and must be killed" is obviously a promotion of them being an enemy, seems pretty obvious to me.

The fact that this thread evolved past 4 posts is absolutely ****ing stupid.

Committees for the Defense of the Revolution, also known as CDR's. not entirely absurd and based on myth.

He's a ruthless dictator that used the revolution in order to gain personal power, just like 99% of "Socialist" revolutionaries. If you can't see that you are blind.

I think the thread title should change to
"TSM upset at video game that aims to kill Fidel Castro"

"TSM Upset That Political Connotations Are Unavoidable; Takes Entertainment Too Seriously"

I'm aware of the CDR's, what's your point?



Brilliant argument



What personal advantages did he get in particular though? The same could be said about any leader of any state who seeks state power I suppose. From what I understand, some even conservatives respect Castro for not living in luxury and living similarly to how the average Cubans live.



It's clearly not just me. Maybe on the massassi message boards I'm alone in opposing that, but fortunately massassi isn't the hotbed of political discourse.

Well this video game has now started a discussion about the nature of the Cuban revolution. Apparently you all have decided to indulge me here.

At least we are now an argument that makes sense to argue, I'll give you that.