All of the scientific studies on the subject indicate a positive correlation between piracy and music sales.

and it already has DLCs. oh sure you can get them "free" if you buy the super-delexe-special-edition for $30 more

Yeah, there are quite a few games on steam that start advertising the DLC even before the game is released.

I've never seen these despite how often they are bandied about.

Of course, I haven't looked. Maybe I will read them someday.

I try to buy all of my video games..well..new ones, or i pirate them if i had bought it then lost the cdkey or disc or something..

I also pirate programs that are like 103423454 dollars...Sibelius..Vegas..Adobe Premiere..Finale

I think inconvenience is what drives a lot of piracy, and not just DRM but the distribution. For example, I took a long road trip today, and I wanted a movie to watch. Do I:

A. Torrent a movie, encode it all night on my crappy laptop, then deal with potential artifacts or decoding errors trying to watch it on my iPod.
B. Rent that movie from the iTunes store for $3.00.

I went with B, and I got a great high quality version of the flick I wanted. Same thing goes for Steam... I used to pirate games, but with Steam sales there is no reason to anymore. I get high quality, working games for next to nothing. I like indie music which is normally hard to find for a decent price, but the iTunes store is so large and comprehensive that's not an excuse anymore and I enjoy getting music off iTunes better anyway.

Another thing with expensive professional software can be summed up from the article:

I pirated various software back in the day when I was learning my craft, and now that I do it professionally I spent my hard earned money on the software I liked and was familiar with. They turned a potential customer into a serious one.

I DON'T SEE VOYAGER IN THAT LIST.

i wouldn't pay ten dollars for that, the whole thing even.

I found this article interesting and kinda on subject as well:

http://games.on.net/article/11817/Good_Old_Games_Claims_Their_Success_is_Due_to_DRM-Free_Sales

And the fact that most media in general is now digital would be way too obvious.

I only pirate games that are over 5 years old because that's all my computer can run. I don't know if you'd consider 2200 amiga games pirating since they're mostly abandonware.

i stand corrected.

You have poor taste.

The black & white rhetoric of your side of the argument is much worse (e.g: "stealing is stealing no matter what & is morally unacceptable whether or not the stolen from is affected by your actions"). I've given a few of my reasons & they're rather well thought out. Your side doesn't want any reason or justification. You just want blind obedience to the idea that "piracy" is "stealing" & there couldn't possibly be any logical reason to do so. This is simply not the case.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy "I can't afford it" or "I want it for free because I don't think it's worth money to me" as logical reasons that you deserve all this software without compensating the developers/publishers of it. You're not doing it because your life depends on it. You're doing it because you want free stuff and you know that you won't get in trouble for doing it.

I admit to downloading a few games, but it's usually for trial purposes. I downloaded GTAIV. Fun game, but until I get upgraded hardware, I can't enjoy the game. Same with Test Drive Unlimited 2. Until about 3 or 4 years ago, that wasn't necessarily the case. I still have over 100 PC games I bought retail (not including steam), so I don't think I did too bad. I do support game makers, but they better be quality games if they expect me to pay 40+ dollars. If it's a mediocre game, like Rainbow Six: Vegas 2, I'll pay the 15 or 25 bucks to play with friends. But if it's like Two Worlds? Hah. The nerve of charging for that POS.

So?

So then don't beat around the bush and come up with a bunch of silly excuses to try and justify it. Just admit to it.

Yeah Mentat gawd

Saying why he pirates isn't the same as coming up with silly justifications...
Try reading his posts again without the prejudice.

I file "Microsoft isn't losing any money when I do it" or "only certain things are worth my hard-earned money" under silly justifications that people make up to try and feel better about what they're doing.

Like I said before. That to me is worse than just owning up to it.

I used to download **** all the time when I was a poor little teenager who didn't have money, but I knew what I was doing was wrong. I didn't try to come up with ways to convince myself and other people that it wasn't.

I can't fathom how someone couldn't understand why someone couldn't afford software that costs hundreds or even thousands of dollars. You're either a detached wealthy person, you're being disingenuous or you're merely choosing your statements unwisely. The "not worth it to me" reason is a good one when comparing prices. I fail to see why it wouldn't be a consideration when it comes to whether or not it's justifiable to pirate something. You're either redefining my reasons so that it's easier to argue against them or you're legitimately misunderstanding me. No one here stated that their reasons for pirating software were dire. I don't subscribe to the notion that matters of life, death or national security are the only "justifiable" reasons for pirating things. Pirating, as others have stated, doesn't only occur because it's free. I'm often willing to pay for something, as I've stated & even gave examples of, if the price is affordable. As far as getting in trouble; I'm quite confident that I could rob my neighbors blind while they're out of town & get away with it, but as I've already stated, it's about cause & effect & I wouldn't do that because of how it would effect them. However, I'd "steal" Windows 7 in a heartbeat for the reason(s) already given.

The people that see this as a black & white issue put up a wall that no reason can pass through. It's very much similar to what fundamentalist religious people do. To these people, there's no justifiable reason for this practice & anything you say is "just an excuse".

I find it very telling that you claim it's not worth the money to you, and yet you still feel entitled to have it.

Putting words into my mouth much? I can understand why someone can't afford things. That doesn't mean you automatically get a free pass to pirate them. I can't afford lots of things, software or not, so I learn to live without them.

Thinking that something is worth less than the asking price doesn't mean that I wouldn't pay something for it. I was perfectly willing, as I've stated, to pay $25 for Windows XP. If Microsoft wants to add a PayPal link for people that want to pay for items that they've pirated then I'll be happy to help out. I personally don't think it's worth the full price when I use it less than an hour per month.

Totally not the point.

You're essentially saying that socioeconomics shouldn't be a factor in determining whether or not it's "justifiable" for someone to pirate. I'm disagreeing with you. I think that a poor person can be just as interested in CAD as a wealthy person & that as long as they weren't able to pay for the software in the first place, the company wasn't harmed by them pirating it & the poor person has potentially increased their quality of their life. I think it's perfectly reasonable for this to take place. You folks are too stuck on this idea that "stealing" is a black & white issue, that all forms of stealing are morally apprehensible & that there can be no justification for this action, regardless of the cause & effect & I find that to be silly. No one here is condoning the pirating & selling of copyrighted material or anything like that.

Note: CAD is obviously used as an example & I personally think that people should always explore freeware options first (as I do) because it's less risky.

You're going to have to spell it out for me then. Not all of us piss ourselves at the words "entitlement" or "communism" when we hear or read them.

Communism? Who said...k nvm lol, w/e

I really, really doubt this.

Anyway,

the way I feel about software is that sooner or later, people are going to realize that it is pointless to hoard things that can be effortlessly duplicated. If you had a Star Trek replicator, would you charge people for the food it produces, or would you just replicate more replicators and distribute them to people?

That said, people who write software contribute something of value to society and their needs should be met. They shouldn't be starving just because their products are incredibly easy to propagate. Even so, they were incredibly difficult to produce. The whole paradigm is slowly but surely changing. It'll happen first in the digital world, then the material world. We will have to move beyond the money/intellectual property way of doing things, because it has demonstrated continually that it is horribly broken.

I avoid pirating software, but I prefer software that is free. If the developers ask for donations and it is software I really like, then I donate liberally. They are gracious enough not to use force on me to their advantage, and I reward such noble behavior in kind.

Pirating something isn't the same as saying I'm entitled to have it. Saying something isn't worth it's price isn't the same as saying it's worthless, useless or that I deserve to have it for free.
I pirate things primarily because I can't afford them. HOWEVER I buy many games that I could easily pirate or even have already pirated, because they've gone on special or something and I think that game was worth the price they're now asking.
I think those "pay what you think it's worth" deals are a fantastic idea, and shows that there are a lot of people who could pay 1c but would rather pay more because it's worth it. Though I do of course understand why very games have done that.

Basically my point is there are reasons beyond "I'm broke" or "I'd rather spend my money elsewhere" even though that's usually part of the reason. Just because we list additional reasons doesn't mean we're trying to justify it, not to you and not to ourselves. I pirate things, it's illegal... it SHOULD be, I don't deserve the stuff I've pirated but I want them, it's wrong. Not as wrong as -actual- theft, especially since most things I pirate (and never buy) are thins I never would buy.
That's not going to change unless I start getting more money, or they really crack down on piracy (though piracy for personal use tends to get ignored overall).

Really? So now we have to "EARN" the right to these movies/games/music etc.? That is complete bull****. "Oh i didn't pay for 4 seasons of the 97' Batman cartoon, i don't DESEARVE to watch it. That is like denying us information.

So the only thing that makes you worthy to watch or own the media is if you pay some ******* company that already makes a killing off the poor retarded souls who buy EVERYTHING? This is inexplicable reasoning.

So by your rational the only people who "earn" the right, get to see it? And the only way you earn that right is by paying someone?

Sorry guys, I guess I'm not "worthy" to be downloading over 100gigs of the original "lost in space" series (entire series), because I didn't waste a ****load of hard earned money on a stupid DVD set.

Why are all your panties in a bunch over this? Do you own stock in Universal or something? I just don't understand why you think paying for it makes it better. I guess Bill Gates is better than all of you because hes got the money to buy all his Media THUS Gates is better than you...

Regardless of what any of you say, I will (like most) continue to download to my hearts content, while the suckers continue to waste their money on something that could be free.

Have fun being poor

Xasthur in a nutshell:

If I want it, I'm entitled to have it, even if I can't afford it!

ITT have your cake and eat it too!

I do not see why money is the thing that qualifies you.

Hence me alluding to Bill Gates.

Why are you talking about 'qualifying' to watch media and ****? What does that mean, dude? It's a good, you have to pay for it. Do you think that everyone should operate the way you do? Is that sustainable?

Its ****ing DVD's "dude"!

Of course, what's the point in having cake otherwise?

What do you mean?