Yeah I'm lost as well

Your point? If you don't think it has value, then you don't need to watch it. If you think it has value, then pay for it.

Seriously, this is just going to get more hilarious the more you try to justify your pirating habits.

I do not need justification, I need vindication.

I do not feel bad in the least for downloading, nor do I see it as something wrong. I will continue to mercilessly and without conscience, get every bit of media I can think of. I will download entire series on a whim.

Continue to feel high and mighty as you spend $60 a game and $100+ on software.

As I said, have fun being poor.

Let's take this thinking to the extreme:

What would happen if everyone did what you do?



It's not about high and mighty. It's about being low and criminal. You're relying on other people to purchase said games and software, simply because you think you're entitled to it.

Being poor? From what, spending money on "entire series" of "every bit of media we can think of?" Whatcha gonna do with the money you're saving? Presuming that you're making very little, I suppose I understand the "poor" thing, but I don't think purchasing movies is rendering our whole population destitute.

They would be forced to lower prices, in hopes that people would buy it. Or they would just become free

You seem to be wound up in a circle of stupidity for a justification so allow me to straighten this out a bit.

First, you seem to be stuck in the mindset that video games, movies, music, only represent the big corporations behind them. It takes a lot more than money and a face to make a video game, movie, or musical album. It takes an entire team of people that dedicate certain large portions of their lives to, and sometimes don't even get paid until the product is COMPLETED AND SOLD, that you're now making poor.

It's not fun being poor, and you're directly contributing to it. You are putting people out of jobs. Crews of 20 or more people, aside from the big stars and studios to make a film/tv series. An entire studio of musicians, producers, and even craft services for just a musical album, or a studio full of developers that often put out casting calls for SMALL ACTORS (who also are usually poor by the way) to fill a large portion of roles in their movies/video game/etc. SEE: The definition of what an EXTRA is.


It has absolutely nothing to do with feeling high and mighty. I work in the industry (film/tv) and I am having an incredibly difficult time finding steady work at the moment. Piracy is a huge contributor to this factor. It might not be the direct cause, but it's most definitely part of the problem. (and yes, those are words from several producers, casting agents, etc that I've met over the years so I'm going to take what they say over you... mmk?)

You also don't seem to understand in the least how the market works. Judging by your last comment.

You're saying that by more people pirating the companies are going to be foced to lower prices? LOL really?

By pirating you're basically putting people out of jobs, ensuring that the company will make less money, thus ensuring that those people who worked on said game/movie/album will most likely have a difficult time finding their next gig.

"Hay Guyz I just stole a biek from Walmart but itz ok cuz theri a huge company! **** the people that work for them, that dont make me no thief. BRAWWWWWWW" is basically what you're saying at the moment.


It's true that sometimes there is a lack of quality in what companies put out compared to the price they are charging for said product. But if you really think that's a justification for stealing then no offense, but I sincerely hope you do not procreate. Those values should not be passed on to offspring.

No, what would actually happen is the software would disappear. As in, no longer being made. No market = no development. This isn't about competitive pricing, there's plenty of indie games you can buy cheaper, or you can wait for $60 games to drop in price (they all do). If everyone infringed on copyright, there would be NO cash inflow, and you would have killed the market entirely.

You are entirely correct. I am poor. I would be homeless if I bought every bit of media I'm inclined to own. Which is to say almost everything.

As for what I am going to do with the money I save, is that even a question?

What do you propose I do? Stop now, delete everything that Ive acquired and prey to the god Hollywood for forgiveness?

I LOVE film OK? I try to watch almost everything I can. Yet do all my interests have to be limited to what i can spend? Like Everyone and everything else?

Or should I take advantage of the fact that in this instance, the amount of money I have dose not matter, all that matters is my level of desire and interest.

Is this not a cause worth fighting for?

Hey, I really like expensive cars. I should go out and just take whatever ones I fancy, because I can't afford them!

Your cause is not a cause at all, it's a bitter, poor excuse.

Smiley means nothing to anyone?

I was kidding.

In reality, I think that if everyone did it and it became that much of a problem, they would have it under scrutiny. They would probably crack down and start suing people is all.

o yea

...they ARE cracking down and they ARE suing people. Are you from 1999?

You can dance around the subject all day long. You can insist that you don't care and that you don't think you're morally in the wrong, etc. But at the end of the day, it just means people are going to have little respect for you.

Why? Because you don't have respect for the hard work of others.

see, i really dont have a problem with pirating media. as a legalistic technicality it IS stealing, but only because the law says so. really its the equivilant of walking up to, lets say... a well made print of the Mona lisa taking a photo of it, blowing the photo up and hanging that on your wall. you are not taking an origional, or even a copy of an origional, your taking a duplicate of a copy. the problem comes when everyone starts doing it.

having said that, some one had to create whatever it is that you are downloading. time and money went into making it, and no, you are NOT entitled to it. why would you be? what possibly would make you ENTITLED to the fruits of someone elses labor? nothing!

if you want to pirate, go for it. I have before, and i really dont feel bad about it. just be aware that what CM said is true. if everyone is just waiting for the free pirated version there will be no market, and 'no market = no development'.

Eh? I don't really think that can be applied to this case. There is only ONE Mona Lisa first off, and second you aren't taking a copy of the original, you are downloading a copy of it so that you can use until completion then delete without ever paying a dime towards it. Every dollar you do not spend on that piece of work, every single person that worked on it did not get paid as much as they could have. Not only that, but I seem to recall there only being ONE artist that painted the Mona Lisa... Not a team..

lol

"Hey guyz I can't wait a few weeks/months for the prices to lower on "X Product" so I'm just gunna steal it now rather than wait. Maeks Sense RITE?"

I wish people would make demos again, remember what I said about the crysis 2 leak selling me on the game? The MP demo is garbage and there is no SP demo, so without it there would have been a missed sale. DA2s demo was a trashy combat focused (because I play RPGs for combat, yeah) short demo, what happened to the art of demo making?

actually it does apply here. there is only ONE (well, sort of...) origional copy of photoshop cswhatever... that was programed/typed/coded/ (obviously there are probably a bajillion partial saves and de-bugging bits but...) that would be like the origional Mona lisa painting. the 'print' of the the mona lisa that you can buy would be the equivelant of the 'copy' of photo shop that you purchase at a store. the photo you took for free of the 'print' and hung on your wall, would be like the copy of the store bought bought 'copy' of photo shop that you download for free. but nevermind.



thats what i was saying in the second paragraph...

Obviously you don't understand the market. If you cannot find a job, maybe theirs something else askew.

If you think that pirating kills developers and studios, id say you are woefully wrong at best. If you really believe that pirating is stealing jobs then their is no point continuing to argue with you.

As for the walmart scenario, do you really think id be stealing someones job if i took a bike? I would steal a bike from walmart. **** Walmart.

You are the ones whom have deemed it as stealing. That concept of stealing media is absurd.

This doesn't make sense. Differentiating the first completed copy from what you've downloaded is meaningless. They are identical. And not identical in the same way that a blown up printed out photo of a copy of the Mona Lisa is "identical" to the Mona Lisa.

Xasthur: If you feel the need to pirate whole series of shows on a whim you're either not watching any of them (and therefore wasting your time and bandwidth on them) or you've got too much time on your hands.

I get to watch maybe an hour of TV a night because I have a life.

Wow page 3 blew up, I didn't read it all but this word "entitled" keeps popping up and I just want to throw it out there.

Lets say I pirate software, it doesn't matter if I can't afford it, or what my reason is. But just because I have pirated the software doesn't mean I think I'm "entitled" to it. I could do just fine with or without it.

1. Give (someone) a legal right or a just claim to receive or do something.

When my grandfather dies I feel entitled to receive my share of his inheritance. The word fits better in a sentence like this.

Your ability to do fine with or without it is not what defines whether or not your attitude implies entitlement. Entitlement doesn't signify an attitude that you *should* have it, but rather that, if you desire it (which, say, you do) you deserve it for whatever price you see fit, including none at all.

You aren't saying you have a legal right, but you are saying that your claim is just, in a sense. (Maybe not you specifically)

Your additional examples do kinda make me think there are shades of gray to the use of the word entitlement, Z@n. I'd still say that Xasthur's opinion seems to either suggest that he is entitled in a more moral, less legal sense of the word, or that he sees morality as having no bearing on the issue.

I think if you try to justify what you are doing is NOT illegal, or some reason why you should pirate software or convince others you are not wrong, perhaps your correct. But maybe it's different if you are aware of what you are doing is illegal, and not trying to justify it in a good way, just simply doing it. Maybe?

Yeah. That's a thing. If someone really believes that what they're doing is wrong and doesn't care, or doesn't care so much that they don't think it's wrong, then maybe they don't see it as a slight to anyone but big faceless corporate whatever. It's still a bit of a **** you, intentional or otherwise, to lots of people doing lots of work

It will be interesting to see how content distribution methods change to adapt to these issues. I won't deny that the convenience of downloading something, and the prohibitive cost of tools I really *need* to use for design (Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, InDesign, AutoCAD, Rhinoceros, Mudbox, 3DSM, SketchUp, &c.) has led me to piracy in certain cases. There are student versions, and one month trials, etc., but as Spook said before, the limitations of these versions can be pretty crippling. I can't lie to myself and say that there aren't alternatives, though, and that I couldn't just spend more time trekking back and forth between home and campus to use the school's licenses, or buy used copies of old versions online, or use less powerful, free alternatives. But because it's so easy to do, the advantages so large, the penalties so remote, and the potentially-hurt-developers so distant, it's hard to say no.

I have what I consider a life. Yet, I enjoy film as much as I enjoy music and am actively participating in both. I do have an almost infinite amount of time on my hands. Though i do admit that I do not watch them all at once or anything. I even watch the same thing many times ! (recently Dr. Strangelove has been a favorite)

In conclusion ( and because I'm sick of arguing about this ) ill end with saying thing.

Thanks for paying for everything guys so that I can continue to download everything for free. You truly are great friends.

The latter

You don't. You have a finite amount of time on this planet. I suggest you maybe find something better to do with your time than watch back to back episodes of DS9 or whatever.

I do console myself a bit with the knowledge that I will have vastly less need to use such products at home once I've graduated and am working at an office.

Perhaps if you wasted less of your time watching movies and more time working, you'd be able to afford those movies!

Crazy, I know.

I have a very simple metric for determining if someone is "entitled" to an expensive (thousands per seat) software package.

Answer this question: Are you paid enough money for your work with the software that you could afford to buy it?

• If you answered 'yes,' you need the software package. In fact, you probably own a legitimate copy of it. Congratulations.
• If you answered 'no,' you're basically just pretentious. You can't even use the thing, you're just trying to be like one of the 'cool kids.' I think that's a lot worse than being a thief. At least theft takes some kind of skill, and you get something out of it. Good luck fumbling around in Solidworks or Photoshop or Oracle 11g or whatever.

Wow, really? Thanks for the news flash, you nearly gave me a heart-attack. OK so you read the first couple chapters of A Brief History of Time and the know the word finite. Your so smart.

As for what I watch, its nothing as cool as DS9. I watch more juvenile stuff like Family Guy, Freaks and Geeks, x-men (94 cartoon), the Sci-Fi channel Invisible Man series (which is hard as hell to find a real copy of in America, i tried for a whole year searching). Mostly its movie though. I have every Francis Ford Coppola and Stanly Kubrick movie and then some. I probably have about 600gigs of video in all on my hard drive.

Any who

Yeah, downloading bad, we get it.

I watch Stanley Kubrick and FFC movies. I'm such a film aficiando.




Then get a job? Friends? Girlfriend? Something other than torrents?

I can't find a job because there aren't any, and the economy isn't helping much either. It has nothing to do with my qualifications. People just aren't hiring. It's not as easy to start a career nowadays as it is to work at a 7-Eleven. I'm sure once you graduate college you'll find out the realities of the world. At least some of them. (Disclaimer: Yes I am assuming this about you. Because based off your posts thus far, you seem to have the mental thought process of a highschooler.)

It's also pretty funny that you stated a few posts ago that you were done arguing.. Yet...Continue..To..Do..So..

IM sorry I'm compelled.

I never knew a lack of logical thought processes was enough to motivate someone to further point out that they possess such qualities.

Really? I never had any issues.

Why are you guys wasting your own time, telling this guy what to do with his time, haha.. :p

My post was poorly-phrased. I'm not saying a sub-professional cannot learn how to use the software.

I am saying you are a liar if you claim you need it.

Sigh. Yes I have read A Brief History of Time, no I didn't understand much of anything after the first chapter. I am smart, I've got a Masters degree in Civil Engineering and a related job to prove it, and yes, I know my tone is superior.

I'm not saying downloading is bad (but it generally is), I'm saying vegging out night after night on your own watching and rewatching Dr strangelove is ****ing sad.

And no, I don't care how quirky your film collection is, nor how many gigs of wasted, sedantry hours you've lined yourself up for (a depressing thing to brag about). My favourite film is Uncle Buck, closely followed by A Knight's Tale. I don't care who knows, because it's not something I define myself by.

Whether you choose to get a life or not, at least you can reassure yourself that your taste in films is probably better than some snotty bloke off the internet, who for all you know is a jaded misanthrope with nothing better to do than argue with you about how you spend your leisure time. But you never know, he might have a point.