Ok. You two cinema lovers should listen to / read Tim Pratt's short Hugo-award winning story "Impossible Dreams."

EscapePod link: http://escapepod.org/2007/05/10/ep105-impossible-dreams/
Some random review: http://bestsciencefictionstories.com/2007/12/20/impossible-dreams-by-tim-pratt/

When it comes to music, I still torrent everything before I buy it, but I'm still inclined to have a physical copy, and support the music I like the most. Torrenting in this sense has become far more of a social sharing service, and is probably available in a lesser magnitude on one of the industry websites, but I've got no reason to switch at this point.

Netflix and Hulu has entirely stopped my movie/tv torrenting, but I still don't buy DVDs. I think new episodes of TV should start appearing in paid online services soon.

I used to pirate a lot of games, but steam has really changed that with all of its deals, and the best part is that there aren't any DVDs. I have still had to pirate several games just to disable features I didn't like on games I've purchased. I can wait a few months after a game's release to play it instead of downloading it that first week.

While I don't think torrenting is moral, I also don't think it's as damaging of a phenomenon as creators claim. If the person had no intent to buy the game for money and was only going to steal it, you can't really claim a loss of sale. The best games are going to have the most torrents, and probably the most sales. It's pretty hard to defend that claim, since "best" is a subjective statement, but I really would like to see a game that was really well made that actually failed from piracy, or was it because the game sucked or underwhelmed audiences?

I don't think people are unwilling to pay for media, I just think that, as the variety and availability of media increases along with people's desire to fill time with that media, there's going to be a large decrease in individual media's value. The pie is being cut smaller and smaller, and I just don't think torrenting is the cause, and is more of a symptom.

Because once you eat your cake, you don't have it anymore.

Yes, but there's no point in having a cake that never gets eaten, it'll just go off, unless you freeze it.
Either way it's a waste.

I think too many people are trying to reason this based on large corporations. Try thinking about it on a smaller scale, where the company is small and the customer base is small. If potential customers pirate the product as opposed to buying it, then that reduces income for the company, which means people will lose their jobs and the company could go under. You may not be stealing a tangible product, but you are stealing something that takes time and money to make, which the company will not have your revenue to help cover expenses.

So, yes, you are hurting companies and those that work for those companies. It just may not be enough to do real damage to the big ones.

Yeah but we're talking about the same instant. Obviously things can have multiple states. You can have money, or you can turn that money into a good or service. However, you can't also still have that money. You can't both have you cake, and have eaten your cake. You can have the cake, then you can eat it, but then you don't get to still have the cake there, ready to be consumed again. It's gone.

OK, you took my joke way too seriously and spent too much time explaining what we all know the saying means =p

I was simply enjoying the pleasure of conversing with a reasonable person about a simple topic about which there is little confusion (but just enough uncertainty). Oh look, the issue is now resolved, WHAT A PLEASANT DEPARTURE.

I wonder if in the future when we have "star trek" type replicators, if you still have to pay for you coffee at the shop.

If they consume power and/or resources, then of course you will! Plus licensing fees for the original creator of whatever you're replicating, and any service fees related to helping you through the process such as maintenance of original-item repositories or databases etc.

If we had "Star Trek"-type replicators only 5% of the working population would have marketable skills.

Can replicators make large complicated things like ships and such?

Piracy is like a cube, except with all the corners on the inside.

I think they were integrated with the holodeck to make objects solid. But I don't think they could like construct a computer from scratch but I could be wrong, besides it's not real

Excellent question!

TNG once had a holographic simulation of a shipyard and it showed the Enterprise D under construction, which indicates to me that at least very large starships can't be replicated.

OTOH the Federation only planned to build a handful of Galaxy class starships because they were so expensive, but during the Dominion War (2 years) they fielded literally hundreds of them. By comparison an aircraft carrier takes Northrop Grumman 6 years from keel-laying to launch.

So even if they can't replicate the ships wholesale, they have some other advanced construction methods that put ours to shame.

That said, USAF and US Navy techs completely disassemble and reassemble fighters as a part of the normal maintenance schedule. If you look at it one way, building a starship is almost like a training exercise.

On at least one occasion there was some widget or device that was too complex to replicate, thus used as a plot device. To get around the fact that the replicator itself is a plot device and basically cheating.

They say a lot in the series that the replicator has to have detailed instructions on how to replicate whatever is asked, and apparently doesn't even perfectly replicate things like drinks (probably since each drink has its own nuances).

So while replicating a whole ship would be extreme, they could (and have) replicate parts for the ship, which means almost the entire construction is little more than assembly.

Certainly the frame, hull etc are replicated

Wait that's my move



So is an interest in whatever particular medium the program works in different?

They probably could replicate a starship if they had a replicator large enough, just like how transporters can only transport so many people and not,, say, a starship.

Memory Alpha says industrial replicators existed:
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Industrial_replicator

So yeah, size and mass/energy consumption seem to be the primary setbacks, and as Jon`C pointed out, they seem to be able to crank out stuff when really needed, likely due to having replicators.

They transported a couple whales once

Oh yeah... well, that just really goes to show that what ACTUALLY runs the Star Trek universe is the whims of the writers.

One of your favorite movies is A Knights Tale?

I think this argument is over.

Because you're totally the arbiter of good taste.

Xasthur - So because you're judgmental and pretentious, his argument is invalid? Can I have whatever drugs you're on?

For $200 a half, yeah.

Are you guys attacking me or defending A Knights Tale?

Either way its hilarious.

I love A Knight's Tale. I think it's Heath Ledgers second best work.

With 10 Things a close 3rd?

LOL you're being super overcharged.

I only pay 80 for medicinal quality. GTFO and stop "trying" to brag. 200 bucks or 80 bucks.. It's done something to your mind.

I pay more than that and this stuff is quality. Gotta pay to play around here. 200 1/2 is pretty common for quality bud I think.

I do like how this thread has descended into a discussion about how and if you could replicate whole starships and complex objects with a fictional device...

not to mention the merits of A Knight's Tale.

as for piracy, I'm pretty much of the same opinion as Kirby, I read/listen/watch about new music/movies/games, have a quick go via a torrent and/or demo on steam and if I like it, I get it.

Oh, the one thing I do pirate A LOT is TV shows from the US, they just take so damn long to be aired in the UK, if Hulu allowed UK folks to watch them at a fee I'd pay it, but they don't, I normally end up getting the DVD anyhow.

Seriously, who are you to judge the value of how others spend their time?

Yeah, if you're american that's no surprise. The prices in the USA are ridiculous. My friend who's legal said in California it costs almost 10 more per gram than it does here, for stuff that's not even close to the same quality.



It's not so much that, it's moreso that he's not only openly admitted to stealing, but refuses to believe that it's stealing, justifies it with absolutely stupid logical reasoning, and is just an outright dick about it (i.e thanks for paying for my stuff guyz).

Now if he had have put it a little more logically like say... JediKirby just did on this page, then perhaps the result would be different than this. Some people unfortunately just seem incapable of that.

As opposed to now where it's more like 20-30%?

Yet it wouldn't surprise me if most of you still kept using excessive force on others to keep them going to absolutely unnecessary jobs. People like Steven.

I called myself out on it already. I admitted that I'm just a grumpy old man off the Internet, but I think I have a point.

If I had "near infinite" leisure time I'd bloody well find something better to do than sitting on my own, getting fat watching bootleg DVDs that I downloaded because I could, not because I particularly wanted to.

I don't know what Steven does, but yes, he never seemed like the "necessary" type.

The other 70-80% have marketable skills now. For example, most of them are alive and motile. That means they could feed and clean the people who do the real work.

Don't forget getting perma-stoned and bragging about watching faux-haute cinema.

Kubrick? You've probably never heard of him. He's pretty obscure. :smug:

Pff, Kubrick isn't obscure. Speilberg is obscure.


Anyone ever seen the classic "Howard The Duck"?

Perfect example of Cinema Verite right there.

Same. Especially since it takes even longer for them to come out on dvd, and it's annoying to swap discs every 4 episodes.
Then there's stuff like The Daily Show, which does actually air here but at a weird time. I'd rather have utorrent set to autodownload the episodes and then I can watch them at my leisure.

In fact, now that I think about it, I barely ever pirate games anymore, I buy them via steam mostly... but I pirate tv on a daily show basis.

By the by, I hate uppity pirates as well, people that do actually argue weak-ass reasons to justify and about it being rebelling against society or entitlement.
Assassin's Creed 2 is a rare exception to that though, that's one I felt deserved to be pirated. I wanted that game to become the most pirated game ever in the shortest amount of time and have a big F U to their DRM.

I never pretended that Kubrick was obscure. I do not think anyone here is in question of who he is. Its just what I like.

I also love Stephen Spielberg. But you may not know who that is seeing as how hes pretty underground. I'm sure you couldn't find him with your Internet access.

If you do not like my tone or attitude Massassi, well I'm afraid you are the creator of this beast you see before you. Ya see, Ive been apart of this community since I was 14. Over the years, Ive posted much, and expressed my personal views on various subjects, much to the dismay of the community. Thus the ridicule and criticism began. I admit, at the young age of 14, I was taken aback. Yet the years wore on. I, discouraged by Massassi, discontinued my posting and retired that long forgotten name. The years wore on and, much to the dismay of the online community, I returned at age 17 with a vengeance.

So now here we are, 4 years later. I'm still pissing people off (though undesigned), while still attempting to amuse. Over the years I think Ive joined only 4 or 5 other forum. All of which I forgot about or simply do not care. My own "smug" megalomania kept that sense of elitism, which runs rampant throughout Massassi. The only forum that i felt had individuals worthy of my time, opinion, and criticism.

Though most of you may find this atrocious, as well as finding yourself predisposed to despising me. IN some strange sense, all your critique's and criticism helped me become the person I am today. You are all my Internet family and, deep down, I love you.