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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Had my first cop confrontation today
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Had my first cop confrontation today
2011-05-17, 9:58 AM #81
Originally posted by Jon`C:
So what you're saying is that you're a bad driver.


So what I'm saying is that I'm as capable as anyone at driving, but I consider myself fallible. Apparently, this is not common. It's worked for me so far, with over a decade of regular driving without so much as a fender bender.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2011-05-17, 9:59 AM #82
What Freelancer is trying to tell us is that he can't safely navigate T-intersections, uncontrolled four-way intersections or turning lanes without coming to a full stop.
2011-05-17, 10:02 AM #83
I would hate to see him [navigate a rotary].
TAKES HINTS JUST FINE, STILL DOESN'T CARE
2011-05-17, 10:03 AM #84
Originally posted by Freelancer:
So what I'm saying is that I'm as capable as anyone at driving, but I consider myself fallible.

No, what you're saying is:

1.) You need to spend several seconds gazing into the distance to spot oncoming traffic, which is why you need to come to a complete stop.

2.) Or you don't understand how yield signs work so you barrel across the intersection going at top speed.
2011-05-17, 10:05 AM #85
More traffic control signs just make people less responsible. It's like tunnel vision, people only look for the signs and don't bother to look at the road. Some cities have removed them entirely with good results

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,448747,00.html
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2011-05-17, 10:05 AM #86
Originally posted by mb:
You know that there are times you can stop at yield signs right? Also, thats why you have rear view mirrors. Also... how do you change lanes or merge?


I minimize the amount of time I am not looking in the direction I am moving. I do this because I figure a buffer between me and catastrophe, even if I were the best driver in the world, is a good thing. I rarely need to change lanes because I know the routes I take ahead of time and be in the lane I need to be in from the beginning. If this requires me to be in the fast lane, I adapt by keeping with the speed of traffic.

That said, I am still aware of my surroundings. I still glance in my rear view mirror every so often and scan the edges of the road for obstacles that may appear in front of me. I just really prefer not to have to swivel my head so far that I have to take my eyes off where my car is headed.

I rarely need to merge these days, but when I do, I obviously divide my attention between the lane I am merging into and where I am going.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2011-05-17, 10:07 AM #87
Originally posted by Freelancer:
I rarely need to


In other words he deliberately avoids doing it because it's scary.
2011-05-17, 10:11 AM #88
Originally posted by Jon`C:
No, what you're saying is:

1.) You need to spend several seconds gazing into the distance to spot oncoming traffic, which is why you need to come to a complete stop.

2.) Or you don't understand how yield signs work so you barrel across the intersection going at top speed.


It's not a matter of spotting the oncoming traffic. That's easy. But judging the speed of that oncoming traffic is another matter. It'd be rather irresponsible to go on only an instantaneous judgment, because that only gives you position without speed. I prefer to go only when I know that the car is both far enough away and going at a speed that will allow for a safe crossing.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2011-05-17, 10:12 AM #89
It's like you don't have peripheral vision.
TAKES HINTS JUST FINE, STILL DOESN'T CARE
2011-05-17, 10:13 AM #90
Originally posted by Jon`C:
In other words he deliberately avoids doing it because it's scary.


I used to merge onto an interstate every day to get to school. This was when I lived in a metropolitan area of about a quarter million people. Then I moved to southern Illinois. The nearest merge is 20 miles away.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2011-05-17, 10:14 AM #91
Originally posted by Freelancer:
It's not a matter of spotting the oncoming traffic. That's easy. But judging the speed of that oncoming traffic is another matter. It'd be rather irresponsible to go on only an instantaneous judgment, because that only gives you position without speed. I prefer to go only when I know that the car is both far enough away and going at a speed that will allow for a safe crossing.


Yeah, nobody cares.

You're a bad, nervous driver who can't handle normal driving conditions. You shouldn't be on the road at all.
2011-05-17, 10:19 AM #92
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Yeah, nobody cares.


I've noticed. That's why I so often have to hit the brakes when somebody turns into my lane in front of me.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2011-05-17, 10:20 AM #93
Other drivers being terrible doesn't mean the regulations are, themselves, terrible.
TAKES HINTS JUST FINE, STILL DOESN'T CARE
2011-05-17, 10:21 AM #94
Originally posted by Freelancer:
I minimize the amount of time I am not looking in the direction I am moving. I do this because I figure a buffer between me and catastrophe, even if I were the best driver in the world, is a good thing. I rarely need to change lanes because I know the routes I take ahead of time and be in the lane I need to be in from the beginning. If this requires me to be in the fast lane, I adapt by keeping with the speed of traffic.

That said, I am still aware of my surroundings. I still glance in my rear view mirror every so often and scan the edges of the road for obstacles that may appear in front of me. I just really prefer not to have to swivel my head so far that I have to take my eyes off where my car is headed.

I rarely need to merge these days, but when I do, I obviously divide my attention between the lane I am merging into and where I am going.


Is this your commute? [http://i.imgur.com/mlTKN.jpg]

Seriously though, minimizing the time you're not looking forward isn't always the best idea. Just because you're moving forward doesn't mean you should ignore the other factors. I know you said you check your mirrors, but turning your head away won't immediately result in a catastrophic car crash.
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2011-05-17, 10:23 AM #95
Quote:
It's not the stop sign that enrages people, it's the result. Yields allow for traffic to flow. Do you propose that all vehicles come to a complete stop when getting on/off the highway? Yeah, that will work. The point of traffic signs is to keep traffic moving in an efficient and safe manner. Having nothing but stop signs does nothing for efficiency or safety.


Drive in Toronto. It's a royal pain in the ass especially downtown. Lakeshore Eastbound near Jarvis St. has an on ramp to the highway, which has two lanes each coming from two separate directions, the right lane has a yield sign and the left lane is free to enter the highway at will. You cannot imagine the traffic that gathers in this intersection, not to mention the fact that many people completely ignore the yield sign when the oncoming lane is going 60kph.

Hard to describe what it looks like really. Just know the yield sign IS on the on-ramp to the highway and it makes things very very very bad.

Toronto driving is fun.
2011-05-17, 10:32 AM #96
Originally posted by Jon`C:
You're a bad, nervous driver who can't handle normal driving conditions. You shouldn't be on the road at all.


Bad.. I won't go into that, because it's meaningless. Nervous.. roughly equivalent to cautious. And that's true, and that's a quality I would hope to find in every driver. As for the rest:

Being comfortable in a situation means diddly squat. Being comfortable is not alone an indicator of capability. It is the person who is vigilant, who does not trust other drivers to behave in expected ways, and who, yes, is nervous and considers himself fallible, that is the safe driver. It is the driver who considers himself in control, and is completely comfortable, paying less attention to conditions, and considers himself immortal who is dangerous.

It's like Plato said: the people who would make the best politicians are the people who don't want the job. It's the same with drivers.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2011-05-17, 10:39 AM #97
I personally find myself in complete control, and completely comfortable. But that doesn't mean I pay less attention to conditions and consider myself immortal, I don't see why those words are in the same sentence.
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2011-05-17, 10:43 AM #98
Originally posted by Temperamental:
Drive in Toronto. It's a royal pain in the ass especially downtown. Lakeshore Eastbound near Jarvis St. has an on ramp to the highway, which has two lanes each coming from two separate directions, the right lane has a yield sign and the left lane is free to enter the highway at will. You cannot imagine the traffic that gathers in this intersection, not to mention the fact that many people completely ignore the yield sign when the oncoming lane is going 60kph.

Hard to describe what it looks like really. Just know the yield sign IS on the on-ramp to the highway and it makes things very very very bad.

Toronto driving is fun.


That's my point. Imagine the congestion if there were stop signs before you could merge onto the highway.
TAKES HINTS JUST FINE, STILL DOESN'T CARE
2011-05-17, 10:50 AM #99
I don't know what kind of highway you guys are talking about. I have *never* seen a yield or stop sign at an onramp type situation, like this:

[http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1599/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1599-4948.jpg]

If you're talking about something more like this:

[http://www.okroads.com/052005/us69atk103_02.JPG]

Then I would certainly expect to see a two-way stop for the more minor route.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2011-05-17, 10:54 AM #100
Protip, Freelancer, that's an implied yield situation. Anytime you merge into traffic (as that sign indicates), you're required by law to yield to the highway traffic, even stop if necessary. It doesn't need another yield sign to tell you what you should already be doing.

Yet another example of why you probably shouldn't be on the road.
2011-05-17, 10:54 AM #101
That yellow sign, the one that's shaped like a diamond and has an image depicting the road on it? It means caution and the lane merging onto the highway has to yield. It has to do with right-of-way.
TAKES HINTS JUST FINE, STILL DOESN'T CARE
2011-05-17, 10:55 AM #102
I never meant to say put a stop sign there. That'd be incredibly stupid. I said replace yield signs with stop signs. That's not a yield sign.

I meant these: [http://www.freefoto.com/images/41/07/41_07_57---Yield-Road-Traffic-Sign_web.jpg?&k=Yield+Road+Traffic+Sign]
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2011-05-17, 10:59 AM #103
It -is- a yield sign in many places.
TAKES HINTS JUST FINE, STILL DOESN'T CARE
2011-05-17, 11:00 AM #104
Not to mention, it's more common to see them when you get on the on-ramp, not the highway. You'll have one road for traffic coming from a left turn, and another road coming from a continuous right turn, merging together with no obvious right of way. Thus, one side will have a yield sign. As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, nearly every continuous turn I can think of makes use of a yield sign.
2011-05-17, 11:17 AM #105
Trust me Free, it exists, at least in Toronto. I've seen tons of places where there is a yield sign on the on-ramp while in the next lane (on the same ramp) there is no yield sign.

You're welcome to look up Lakeshore Boulevard East on google maps to see. I can't remember the intersection but I'm fairly certain it's near Front st or Jarvis.
2011-05-17, 11:18 AM #106
I can only imagine the yield signs in our roundabouts being replaced with stop signs.... Ugh.
2011-05-17, 11:18 AM #107
What's a yield sign for? Is it just like a give way sign or what?
nope.
2011-05-17, 11:20 AM #108
Honestly, if there are too many signs people just ignore them.
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2011-05-17, 11:22 AM #109
"I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist."

Like atoms.
TAKES HINTS JUST FINE, STILL DOESN'T CARE
2011-05-17, 11:31 AM #110
I too would like to see more roundabouts in the U.S. We have a few in my area but not nearly enough. I think that they must have been more common here in the past because they're typical in older towns.
? :)
2011-05-17, 11:40 AM #111
Our main roundabout has nekkid people in the middle of it too!
2011-05-17, 11:47 AM #112
Originally posted by Freelancer:
I never meant to say put a stop sign there. That'd be incredibly stupid. I said replace yield signs with stop signs. That's not a yield sign.

I meant these: [http://www.freefoto.com/images/41/07/41_07_57---Yield-Road-Traffic-Sign_web.jpg?&k=Yield+Road+Traffic+Sign]

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&ll=39.239904,-84.301697&spn=0.000576,0.00142&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=39.239929,-84.30183&panoid=VqtLHhOvXvNKHqw23q0jFA&cbp=12,281.61,,0,0.34

ONE OF MANY.
2011-05-17, 11:48 AM #113
I see those all the time.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2011-05-17, 12:05 PM #114
Yeah, the right-turn yield onto an onramp is pretty much the standard for interstates around here.
2011-05-17, 12:08 PM #115
Originally posted by Baconfish:
What's a yield sign for? Is it just like a give way sign or what?


Yeah. Yield the right of way. It necessarily doesn't mean slow down.
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2011-05-17, 12:10 PM #116
Yep, CM found a picture of exactly what I'm talking about. Except, this particular roadway (lakeshore in toronto) happens to be shortly after a stoplight (maybe no less than 50 feet actually), and thus everyone tries to run their way through the yellow-red lights to get onto the highway, only to have to yield to the huge amount of traffic coming the other way. Thus, huge traffic jams ensue and many people ignore the yield sign. That and the on-ramp is much shorter than the one in the picture too.

Last week I was doing runs for a music video and had to literally pass by that area about 10 times in one day, going back and forth. I probably got sideswiped almost 5 times in that exact on-ramp area, including once almost by a cop car FAILING TO YIELD.
2011-05-17, 12:29 PM #117
Huh, I don't recall ever seeing the red-triangle-yield used in an on-ramp merge type situation before. I've always seen the 'merge' signs, like the one I posted above. I stand corrected. I revise my statement to mean replace all the non-on-ramp-type-thing-merges with stop signs. :P
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2011-05-17, 1:26 PM #118
Originally posted by Freelancer:
Bad.. I won't go into that, because it's meaningless. Nervous.. roughly equivalent to cautious. And that's true, and that's a quality I would hope to find in every driver. As for the rest:

...snip


The problem is that being either too careful or too anxious can lead to driving indecisively, which is EXTREMELY dangerous.

I don't think this is the ramp/situation Temperamental was referring too, but here's an example of how driving in Toronto really requires you to pay attention to many things at the same time....

[http://k.min.us/iflVI.png]

No stop signs here to look in all directions and if you slow down you can also cause an accident/impede traffic. The qualities you want in a driver in these situations are high awareness and the ability to make safe decisions quickly, you do NOT want someone who is cautious or prone to overthinking to be driving around you here.
2011-05-17, 2:22 PM #119
Quote:
More traffic control signs just make people less responsible. It's like tunnel vision, people only look for the signs and don't bother to look at the road.
This is why people get t-boned right after the light turns green so much. Lights green, must be safe, right?

A driver who is actually any good doesn't need stop signs at all. You can tell as you approach an intersections whether it's safe to not stop. Most of the time you can see any traffic on the other road. If there's no other traffic, why stop? If you can't see traffic on the other road, then you're going to slow down or stop to check. So why do we need the stop sign? It's not for good drivers.

You can be at a wide open intersection. No other car for miles, except that cop car right behind you. And you get a ticket for blowing through the stop sign... why? Who were you going to hit?

(Also, coming to a complete stop is bad for the environment.)
2011-05-17, 2:28 PM #120
Originally posted by Connection Problem:
The problem is that being either too careful or too anxious can lead to driving indecisively, which is EXTREMELY dangerous.

I don't think this is the ramp/situation Temperamental was referring too, but here's an example of how driving in Toronto really requires you to pay attention to many things at the same time....

No stop signs here to look in all directions and if you slow down you can also cause an accident/impede traffic. The qualities you want in a driver in these situations are high awareness and the ability to make safe decisions quickly, you do NOT want someone who is cautious or prone to overthinking to be driving around you here.



Oh hey, I've driven over there before. LOTS OF FUN. :suicide:
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
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