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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Remember how Ron Paul is unelectable?
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Remember how Ron Paul is unelectable?
2011-12-28, 7:22 AM #81
Originally posted by Sarn_Cadrill:
That would be why I said, "(For simplicity, imagine that you have no additional production costs)".


Wow Sarn, get a clue. He even used the little ninja emoticon and everything!
You can't judge a book by it's file size
2011-12-28, 7:29 AM #82
Originally posted by alpha1:
Jon'C
You seem to be assuming that the people that make the decisions in big businesses will be willing to follow everything that the smartest economists say. Often, the people who get to the top of a business do it due to their people skills, not necessarily their economic skills (or, by virtue of being related to the previous owner, and having all of their relevant training payed for by said relative). Do you realy think that every single business owner would be willing to do what someone who does not have any risk involved if the company fails?
I assume the reason for this strawman is because you are incapable of correctly interpreting what I have written in this thread.

Take an economics course.
2011-12-28, 7:39 AM #83
alpha1 and Freelancer calling economics dumb and ***gy because economists aren't good at engineering the economy is like a farmer cussing out the weatherman for making it rain.

This is basically the economics version of fizziks and it pisses me off so much.
2011-12-28, 7:52 AM #84
Originally posted by alpha1:
If someone came up with an economic policy that would cause neither inflation nor deflation, doesn't put certain population groups at an extreme disadvantage (i.e. once a stapler salesman, always a stapler salesman, and your kids will also be stapler salesmen), then they would probably win the Nobel Prize for economics, because such a system would require deep studies into human behavior as both an individual and in groups (in many different situations), studying the many different cultures that will be interacting with your economy (e.g. trading in resources that you cannot get in your own country), research into population growth, human health, and far too many other factors, some of which are possibly not even known yet (as in, nobody realizes that it effects the economy directly).


They have come up with a models for population change, health, and growth. Two even. And one of model makers did win the Nobel prize. Go look up the Solow Model, and Endogenous Growth Theory. You'll see that the effects of population, as well as technical change have been studied now for near 60 years.

The oldest, and probably CLOSEST to fact, economic tenent there is is comparative advantage, which directly addresses your comment about needing a system that includes things like trading resources you don't have. It's called Ricardo's Theory of Comparative Advantage. And about trade + wages? That's called the Heckscher-Ohlin model. Seriously dude, this research has been around for hundreds of years, and people HAVE won Nobel prizes for it.

Behavioral Economics is also an increasingly emerging field that combines neuro + econ, which begins to address the studies into human behavior.

Also I love how you think inflation and deflation are bad things. You have no idea what inflation or deflation are, do you? What they are mechanisms for. Their relationship to interest rates, bonds, and treasuries? I'm sure you just think those three things = MONEY, but no, they are really just signals for health of an economy. Money is information, nothing more, nothing less, like Jon'C said. Go find me a country that has succeed with a 0% inflation rate (and therefore 0% deflation rate). Find it, I dare you. There's a reason it doesn't exist. If you'd like me to go into the theory of why inflation should never be 0%, Jon and I would probably be more than happy to answer. BTW, a little inflation helps pay down nominal debts, so a little inflation would be good for the US right now. BUT NO! INFLATION IS EVIL!!! Perhaps you'd rather have a gold standard if you are so worried about inflation or deflation????!!! (not saying gold is immune from inflation / deflation, but is less prone to it)

Also, how is a stapler maker always being a stapler maker a fault of capitalism? I'd like you to extrapolate a bit on your example. I'd use a different example of inequality if I were you, because this is about to be a losing battle. Think really hard about the STAPLER SALESMAN. Let me say that again, STAPLER SALESMAN. Hint: structural unemployment

Originally posted by alpha1:
Do you realy think that every single business owner would be willing to do what someone who does not have any risk involved if the company fails?


I agree. When you don't have a stake in the game, it's easy to make comments and suggestions. So let's talk about banks during the crisis. Did the banks have any stake in the game when the government ensured their solvency since the 1970s by bailing out every single bank mistake 99.9% of the time (true fact)? Nope. Does it make executives/bankers dickbags for acting foolishly? Yes. But who designed the scenario that basically let the bankers run free with OUR money, but none of their own. That's not capitalism's fault. That's governments fault. Capitalism would've let all of those banks suffer. This is usually where a lefty will start saying "but they were too big to fail and obama did the right thing!". Okay, fine, but by saying that you acknowledge the government is continuing to enforce a scenario where the bankers have absolutely no reason to stop their stupid actions.
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"
2011-12-28, 10:44 AM #85
I contend that America will not elect Ron Paul for the following reasons: 1. The Republican party as it currently stands is very stupid, but they're not nearly stupid enough to nominate Ron Paul. 2. America will refuse to elect a man with two first names.
>>untie shoes
2011-12-28, 10:48 AM #86
Originally posted by Antony:
America will refuse to elect a man with two first names.


Well ****.
"Honey, you got real ugly."
2011-12-28, 10:49 AM #87
Quote:
Of course I am.
I wasn't talking to you. You might be getting more and more insane but at least you're moving consistently in the same direction.
2011-12-28, 10:58 AM #88
Originally posted by Antony:
America will refuse to elect a man with two first names.


[http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2009/08/17/2008629925.jpg]

Chester Arthur says **** YOU.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2011-12-28, 11:03 AM #89
Originally posted by Antony:
2. America will refuse to elect a man with two first names.


I dunno man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_presidents

I see Tyler, Pierce, Taylor, Grant, and Arthur when it comes to some of the most obviously two first named people on that list! I'm just saying there's definitely a history with Americans electing people with two first names.

(Paul Ron 2012)
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2011-12-28, 6:23 PM #90
In ad for newsletter, Ron Paul forecast "race war"



Quote:
(Reuters) - A direct-mail solicitation for Ron Paul's political and investment newsletters two decades ago warned of a "coming race war in our big cities" and of a "federal-homosexual cover-up" to play down the impact of AIDS.

The eight-page letter, which appears to carry Paul's signature at the end, also warns that the U.S. government's redesign of currency to include different colors - a move aimed at thwarting counterfeiters - actually was part of a plot to allow the government to track Americans using the "new money."

The letter urges readers to subscribe to Paul's newsletters so that he could "tell you how you can save yourself and your family" from an overbearing government.

The letter's details emerge at a time when Paul, now a contender for the Republican nomination for president, is under fire over reports that his newsletters contained racist, anti-homosexual and anti-Israel rants.

Reports of the newsletters' contents have Paul's campaign scrambling to deny that he wrote the inflammatory articles.

Among other things, the articles called the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. a "world-class philanderer," criticized the U.S. holiday bearing King's name as "Hate Whitey Day," and said that AIDS sufferers "enjoy the attention and pity that comes with being sick."

As Paul made a campaign stop in Manchester, Iowa, on Thursday, his Iowa chairman, Drew Ivers, repeated Paul's assertions that he did not write the articles that resurfaced this week in a report in the Weekly Standard magazine.

Paul has said that he is not sure who wrote the articles that were published under his name. He has said the articles do not reflect his views, and noted that his public stances - supporting gays in the military for example - have run counter to the incendiary statements in the newsletters.

In an interview with CNN's Gloria Borger on Wednesday, Paul said of the newsletter's articles: "I didn't write them. I didn't read them at the time and I disavow them."

When Borger continued to pursue the subject, Paul removed his microphone and walked out of the interview.

"It is ridiculous to imply that Ron Paul is a bigot, racist, or unethical," Ivers said.

However, Ivers said, Paul does not deny or retract material that Paul has written under his own signature, such as the letter promoting Paul's newsletters.

When asked whether that meant Paul believed there was a government conspiracy to cover up the impact of AIDS, Ivers said, "I don't think he embraces that."

Paul's newsletters "showed good factual information and investment information," Ivers said. "It was a public service, helping people understand and equip them to avoid an unsound monetary policy."

"EXTRAORDINARY SOURCES"

The letter promoting Paul's newsletters was written about 1993. It was during a period in which Paul - who left Congress in 1985 after serving about eight years - returned to Washington after a decade's absence.

(For a PDF of the solicitation letter see link.reuters.com/vud75s)

The letter was provided to Reuters by James Kirchick, a contributing editor for The New Republic magazine. He says he found the letter in archives of political literature maintained by the University of Kansas and the Wisconsin Historical Society.

Early in the 2008 presidential campaign - in which Paul was a candidate - Kirchick published an article in The New Republic in which he described Paul as "not the plain-speaking antiwar activist his supporters believe they are backing - but rather a member in good standing of some of the oldest and ugliest traditions in American politics."

The letter promoting Paul's newsletters claims that Paul - through what he describes as a network of "extraordinary sources" in Congress, the White House, the Treasury and Justice departments, the Federal Reserve and the Internal Revenue Service - had acquired unique insider information that would his subscribers to "neutralize" the plans of "powerbrokers."

Paul's letter went on to describe various plots and schemes that he had "unmasked," including a "plot for world government, world money and world central banking." He also claimed to have exposed a plan by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to "suspend the Constitution" in a falsely declared national emergency.

Despite being "told not to talk," Paul wrote that his newsletters also "laid bare" the "Israeli lobby, which plays Congress like a cheap harmonica," and a "federal-homosexual cover-up on AIDS."

Paul claimed that his "training as a physician" helped him "see through" this alleged cover-up.

Paul also suggested that a planned U.S. currency with new notes designed to curb counterfeiting and money laundering would result in the distribution of "totalitarian bills" that "were tinted pink and blue and brown, and blighted with holograms, diffraction gratings, metal and plastic threads and chemical alarms."

Paul said the money was designed to allow authorities to "keep track of American cash and American citizens."

He urged the letter's readers to send in $99, which would buy subscriptions to his monthly political and investment newsletters, a copy of his book "Surviving the New Money," an investment manual and access to the "unlisted phone number of my Financial Hotline for fast breaking news."

(Additional reporting by Samuel P. Jacobs in Manchester, Iowa; Editing by David Lindsey and Eric Walsh)


In my opinion, Libertarianism and racism are inherently linked. But even if they aren't, Ron Paul and racism certainly are (as well as his son)
2011-12-28, 6:24 PM #91
Taylor, Grant and Pierce are much more common as Surnames.
nope.
2011-12-28, 9:56 PM #92
Ron Paul's misattributed letters and articles were probably written by Lew Rockwell.
2011-12-28, 10:38 PM #93
We're mostly ignoring Sarn's stapler economy post because it's just that terrible, right? Especially the part where demand for staplers is perfectly inelastic?

Originally posted by Baconfish:
Taylor, Grant and Pierce are much more common as Surnames.


Pierce, yes. Grant's been a pretty common given name in the U.S. as long as I've been alive, and Taylor is popular lately and also going through the same male-to-female transition as Kendall, Ashley, and (more recently) Evan before it.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2011-12-28, 10:50 PM #94
Originally posted by Michael MacFarlane:
We're mostly ignoring Sarn's stapler economy post because it's just that terrible, right? Especially the part where demand for staplers is perfectly inelastic?
Yes.
2011-12-28, 11:41 PM #95
The nomination will go to Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich. Romney will win if Republicans are willing to overlook his Mormonism (polls show that they don't consider Mormon's to be Christian & that they won't vote for non-Christians). Otherwise, it'll go to Gingrich. Republicans are willing to overlook a few broken commandments so long as the culprit is a member of their party. It does appear that Santorum is finally gaining steam but I suspect that it's too little, too late. Paul getting the nomination would be more historic than the first "black" president. I think it's incredibly unlikely but it would make for some interesting debates with Obama. I predict that Obama will be reelected for a second term. He's too articulate for Romney & Gingrich seeps corruption. The Republicans were incapable of getting anyone decent to run (assuming there was anyone). They just don't have a leg to stand on at the moment, outside of local politics.
? :)
2011-12-29, 2:38 AM #96
I'm gonna try a guess:

Some ****'s gonna happen and a lot of people will be mad but a lot will be happy and it will be like that for 4-8 years

****, I should write a book on this ****. I will make millions.
error; function{getsig} returns 'null'
2011-12-29, 7:56 AM #97
Hey guys Alan doesn't like politics but keeps posting in a politics thread whats up with that
"Honey, you got real ugly."
2011-12-29, 11:47 AM #98
Originally posted by TSM_Bguitar:

In my opinion, Libertarianism and racism are inherently linked.


I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such an opinion.
2011-12-29, 2:02 PM #99
Stop posting.
TAKES HINTS JUST FINE, STILL DOESN'T CARE
2011-12-29, 2:04 PM #100
i've started vomiting again
2011-12-29, 2:07 PM #101
As opposed to the diarrhea you normally spread across the forums?
TAKES HINTS JUST FINE, STILL DOESN'T CARE
2011-12-30, 10:40 AM #102
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such an opinion.


Just about every explanation for racial disparity in the US I've heard by libertarians involves either a sort of "minorities don't work hard enough" or "they are somehow tricked by welfare programs to not work hard enough." The majority of libertarians fail to attribute any fault of the private sector in explaining segregation, which itself ignores the historical connections between private property and racism in the United States (amongst other advanced industrial countries)
2011-12-30, 11:47 AM #103
Originally posted by TSM_Bguitar:
Just about every explanation for racial disparity in the US I've heard by libertarians involves either a sort of "minorities don't work hard enough" or "they are somehow tricked by welfare programs to not work hard enough." The majority of libertarians fail to attribute any fault of the private sector in explaining segregation, which itself ignores the historical connections between private property and racism in the United States (amongst other advanced industrial countries)


I'm going to hazard a guess that you may be injecting race where it need not be. i will bet a dollar that most libertarians who have that opinion of minorities on welfare, also have that opinion of people on welfare who are not minorities. They probably wouldn't have given a flying **** about the recipients skin color in most cases.
But if your asking specifically about minorities... then guess what! The answer will be about minorities! Never-mind that the answer very well may have been the same if you asked about "non minorities" on welfare.

Originally posted by TSM_Bguitar:
Just about every explanation for racial disparity...


and now i will quietly insert foot into mouth.
Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them. -Rob
2011-12-31, 4:25 AM #104
Well, they don't just shout it from the rooftops. It's usually a bit cryptic, like "I don't hate blacks, I just hate ******s." That's code for "I don't hate blacks like Herman Cain, I hate just hate the poor ones."
? :)
2011-12-31, 6:32 AM #105
Michele Bachmann called Ron Paul dangerous.
Newt Gingrich said he would vote for Obama over Ron Paul.
Rick Santorum said he wouldn't vote for Ron Paul.
Jon Huntsman called Ron Paul unelectable.
Rush Limbaugh said Ron Paul is going to destroy the Republican party.
Neocon insiders said that Ron Paul isn't Republican enough.
Rich white right-wing Christian landowners called Ron Paul racist.

Your whole country is run by stupid, malignant narcissists, incapable of even the smallest amount of introspection. I love this **** so much. It's like watching a $15 trillion train crash.
2011-12-31, 6:56 AM #106
BURN! :v:
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2011-12-31, 12:20 PM #107
Originally posted by Jon`C:
It's like watching a $15 trillion train crash.

As fun as it is to watch, there is nowhere to go that is far enough away to avoid the flying debris.
2011-12-31, 12:35 PM #108
Originally posted by llibja:
Hey guys Alan doesn't like politics but keeps posting in a politics thread whats up with that


Originally posted by Jon`C:
Your whole country is run by stupid, malignant narcissists, incapable of even the smallest amount of introspection. I love this **** so much. It's like watching a $15 trillion train crash.


I don't wanna miss **** like this :D
error; function{getsig} returns 'null'
2011-12-31, 1:33 PM #109
Quote:
Michele Bachmann called Ron Paul dangerous.
Newt Gingrich said he would vote for Obama over Ron Paul.
Rick Santorum said he wouldn't vote for Ron Paul.
Jon Huntsman called Ron Paul unelectable.
Rush Limbaugh said Ron Paul is going to destroy the Republican party.
Neocon insiders said that Ron Paul isn't Republican enough.
Rich white right-wing Christian landowners called Ron Paul racist.
People tend to see in people they dislike the traits they least like about themselves.
2011-12-31, 2:43 PM #110
I don't think Ron Paul would make such a good president for the United States. I suppose Obama would be my first choice out of all the candidates, but as far as the Republican side, I'd like to see Jon Huntsman as the Republican nominee but that's not going to happen. I just hope it's not Gingrich or Perry...
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2011-12-31, 2:50 PM #111
Huntsman is definitely the closest thing to "okay" in the Republican field. By that I mean he's mostly confined his lunacy to his tax reform plan.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2011-12-31, 3:06 PM #112
Plus he speaks Mandarin.
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2012-01-01, 7:59 AM #113
Hunstman would be a great president. He happens to be a non-interventionist, too!
2012-01-01, 2:52 PM #114
Originally posted by Darth_Alran:
I'm going to hazard a guess that you may be injecting race where it need not be. i will bet a dollar that most libertarians who have that opinion of minorities on welfare, also have that opinion of people on welfare who are not minorities. They probably wouldn't have given a flying **** about the recipients skin color in most cases.
But if your asking specifically about minorities... then guess what! The answer will be about minorities! Never-mind that the answer very well may have been the same if you asked about "non minorities" on welfare.


But class and welfare are very racialized in the United States. It isn't about "bringing race into it" because the United States has a very real history of racism that has very real consequences for today (and that racism continues in various forms).

The point is that it is a real social problem, and at best, the Libertarian analysis of the problem and solution to that problem are insufficient. And that's being charitable, in my opinion there is an underlying racism inherent in their analysis.
2012-01-01, 6:08 PM #115
Originally posted by TSM_Bguitar:
The point is that it is a real social problem, and at best, the Libertarian analysis of the problem and solution to that problem are insufficient. And that's being charitable, in my opinion there is an underlying racism inherent in their analysis.


By attacking libertarians, I'm going to assume that you are implying something about the free-market as well. Greedy capitalists and racism don't mix. Really think about it. Think about profit-maximization, productivity, and why it'd be absurd to not hire someone who may even be more productive because he's a minority.

You are choosing to hire Mr. White, who can produce 5 widgets an hour, or a minority, who can produce 10 widgets an hour. You are basically "paying" 5 widgets to keep Mr. Minority out. You could be making money from those 5 widgets. And not only that, but you have less productive workers, making your costs relatively rise which means higher prices. Your competitor is gonna go hire Mr. Minority in a heart beat because, after all, if he's the greedy rich profit-maximizing capitalist, it would be 100% incompatible with his logic to not hire him because he could steal all that profit and MAKE MOAR MONEYZ! Any other example where the minority is less productive than the white guy is useless, because, well, he's less productive and it makes 100% perfect sense why you wouldn't hire him.

The only place where you have to worry about discrimination is in monopolistic/oligopolistic situations where there isn't much competition for labor. But if you really believe that the greedy are just out for the extra bottom line, you realize that it costs way too much to be racist. Not saying people don't make that mistake, it happens all the time because people ARE racist. But they are being punished. They could be making a lot more, and most likely our support is already heading to another product because of price differentials.

So to answer your question, if a libertarian was asked about it, he should say that it would be stupid for him to be racist because it's not a maximization strategy. As for existing inequality, why aren't things like a poorly allocated education system, some minorities not getting real rights until pretty recently (by recent yes, I do mean like the 1960s), and structural unemployment all valid explanations? I'm pretty sure save for "poorly allocated education system", that libertarians would include those other two factors in their analysis.
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"
2012-01-01, 8:54 PM #116
Originally posted by mscbuck:
By attacking libertarians, I'm going to assume that you are implying something about the free-market as well. Greedy capitalists and racism don't mix. Really think about it. Think about profit-maximization, productivity, and why it'd be absurd to not hire someone who may even be more productive because he's a minority.


While I am indeed opposed to free markets, libertarians don't have a monopoly on the promotion of free markets.

Although capitalism and racism mix quite well considering racism as we know it was essentially a byproduct of the rise of capitalism itself.

Quote:
You are choosing to hire Mr. White, who can produce 5 widgets an hour, or a minority, who can produce 10 widgets an hour. You are basically "paying" 5 widgets to keep Mr. Minority out. You could be making money from those 5 widgets. And not only that, but you have less productive workers, making your costs relatively rise which means higher prices. Your competitor is gonna go hire Mr. Minority in a heart beat because, after all, if he's the greedy rich profit-maximizing capitalist, it would be 100% incompatible with his logic to not hire him because he could steal all that profit and MAKE MOAR MONEYZ! Any other example where the minority is less productive than the white guy is useless, because, well, he's less productive and it makes 100% perfect sense why you wouldn't hire him.


This abstract scenario is problematic. It assumes quite a bit about the current state of racial disparity and a tabula rosa kind of state of not only the job market but doesn't bother to contextualize hiring in general. In the real world, minorities are often offered lower paying jobs and more often than not, paid less for the same work.

On top of that, where capital investment has historically gone in places like the United States has often left minority communities underdeveloped, leading to an uneven development in terms of unemployment and just about every other measure out there.

The idea that markets would somehow automatically solve this problem makes no sense and ignores when markets act on other factors than what is assumed by neoclassical economists (although libertarians tend to see things through a more ideological lens than even a simple neoclassical economist would)

Quote:
The only place where you have to worry about discrimination is in monopolistic/oligopolistic situations where there isn't much competition for labor. But if you really believe that the greedy are just out for the extra bottom line, you realize that it costs way too much to be racist. Not saying people don't make that mistake, it happens all the time because people ARE racist. But they are being punished. They could be making a lot more, and most likely our support is already heading to another product because of price differentials.


How does this explain the high amount of discrimination before the rise of monopolies in the United States then? If anything, workplace discrimination has lessened with consolidation of enterprises (this tendency itself rises from competition of course)

Your abstract notion of hiring here again doesn't really follow. Perhaps in a blank state world of random isolated individuals it could perhaps somewhat make sense, but in the real world: there is a real historical context into how businesses have started, how they look at who they hire, etc.


Quote:
So to answer your question, if a libertarian was asked about it, he should say that it would be stupid for him to be racist because it's not a maximization strategy. As for existing inequality, why aren't things like a poorly allocated education system, some minorities not getting real rights until pretty recently (by recent yes, I do mean like the 1960s), and structural unemployment all valid explanations? I'm pretty sure save for "poorly allocated education system", that libertarians would include those other two factors in their analysis.


Well structural unemployment has been the result of private companies historically failing to hire minorities, aka the market. Libertarians also often engage in a very selective or revisionist telling of history as well.
2012-01-02, 8:12 AM #117
Rise of monopolies in the United States? This implies that there was a time when there weren't monopolies.
2012-01-02, 9:40 AM #118
Originally posted by mscbuck:
By attacking libertarians, I'm going to assume that you are implying something about the free-market as well. Greedy capitalists and racism don't mix. Really think about it. Think about profit-maximization, productivity, and why it'd be absurd to not hire someone who may even be more productive because he's a minority.
The problem with this claim is that it is predicated on the absence of any correlation between ethnicity and marginal benefit of labour. Any rational, profit-maximizing firm will look at labour, education, and crime statistics, and they will always choose a white person over an equally-qualified black person.

The free market disadvantages certain classes of people precisely because they are disadvantaged.
2012-01-02, 11:30 AM #119
Originally posted by JM:
Rise of monopolies in the United States? This implies that there was a time when there weren't monopolies.


Indeed, which would be correct. The second half of the 1800s resembled more of the kind of "competitive stage" of capital that Adam Smith and Karl Marx were discussing more than a monopoly stage.

Marx, however, demonstrated how that sort of competition would lead to a concentration of wealth (not just per percentage of the total individual distribution of wealth, but at the level of the firm and industry as well) which is the process that began in the late 1800s.

This is what lead Lenin and his contemporaries to discuss the stage of "Monopoly Finance Capitalism" that many on the Left still agree we are in (see the Monthly Review's articles and books for example)

Quote:
The problem with this claim is that it is predicated on the absence of any correlation between ethnicity and marginal benefit of labour. Any rational, profit-maximizing firm will look at labour, education, and crime statistics, and they will always choose a white person over an equally-qualified black person.

The free market disadvantages certain classes of people precisely because they are disadvantaged.


Indeed, and while this may seem tautological at first, this is similar to my point that the assumptions made by libertarians are devoid of any contextualization of the American economy and historical process of accumulation as it concerns minorities. This leads to a sort of "color blind racism"
2012-01-02, 12:12 PM #120
Originally posted by TSM_Bguitar:
Just about every explanation for racial disparity in the US I've heard by libertarians involves either a sort of "minorities don't work hard enough" or "they are somehow tricked by welfare programs to not work hard enough."


Meaningless anecdotal experience aside, what do the opinions of some self-proclaimed libertarians on racial issues have to do with libertarianism? You might as well say that communism anti-Semitic. Libertarianism doesn't really concern itself with racial or any other cultural problems. No system will work well in a culturally bankrupt society.

Racism, and it's aftermath are cultural issues, which require their own set of ideological solutions to solve. The Libertarian position does not really claim or attempt to solve them.


Quote:
The problem with this claim is that it is predicated on the absence of any correlation between ethnicity and marginal benefit of labour. Any rational, profit-maximizing firm will look at labour, education, and crime statistics, and they will always choose a white person over an equally-qualified black person.

The free market disadvantages certain classes of people precisely because they are disadvantaged.


True, but in this case the real problem is ultimately cultural. That's an effect, not a cause.
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