Reid, your own thread.

Yeah, I remember that. I don't agree with your views on this stuff.

Then you know what campus feminism is.



There are 7 replies to this thread by Reid on page 3 of this thread, and every single one of them is exactly one sentence long. Thank you for your contribution.

To be honest I don't know much about BLM. I'm not going to apologize for them. I can't say you're wrong because I have very little information and I feel I can't make worthwhile statements.

Other than that, I don't know what you expect me to say. Well, one thing I can say, I think you're judging unfairly and quickly and haven't attempted to empathize with them at all.

If you're going to disagree, is it too much to hope for an explanation? But I see that you've conceded.

Conceded what? You've clearly overemphasized BLM's role in everything, if you pay strict attention to you said, you basically see BLM as a boogeyman which can be blamed for everything disagreeable a black person does in America. BLM is not a single, unified movement with only one front. But that's how you treat it when it suits you.

Bush claimed God told him to invade Iraq, if you believe that doesn't make all Christians warmongers, then extend your ability to see nuance to BLM, "campus feminism" and other boogeymen you can umbrella idiots under.

Black Lives Matter, up to and including its leadership, is a flawed organization (albeit with some noble goals), and cannot be beyond critique if we care about actually realizing its stated goals.

It is undeniable that the rhetoric coming from people inspired by this mass movement that they've sparked and fanned has contributed to anti-police sentiment. I can draw a direct line from this rhetoric to the shootings of police in Dallas and now Baton Rouge, and to that extent, I stand by my criticism of their needlessly inflammatory narratives.

Nobody needs encouragement to hate the police, Reverend Jones.

You're perfectly welcome to criticize things. Even BLM. But you should try to make your critiques worthwhile and sensitive. Citing six tweets and implying BLM is about killing cops is not a serious critique.

First of all, you have to be a little oblivious to online media to think that this kind of **** amounts to just six tweets. And for what's it's worth, I even included the hate being spread by Kanye's widely followed jeweler in that pic.

Second of all, it is rather disingenuous to construe my critique of BLM (which, mind you, is plenty worthwhile, especially considering your own concession that you don't know much about the group) as "implying BLM is about killing cops", if you actually read my posts.

Jon, the Dallas shooter is a documented example of an individual who was radicalized as a result of the larger Black Lives Matter movement, which we now know has more than once trumped up a shooting of an unarmed black man with a narrative that later proved to be c̶o̶m̶p̶l̶e̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ significantly false. Take what happened in Ferguson, for example.

Humans are very bad at intuitive statistics.

Oh, yes - he was "radicalized" by them, which made him commit a "hate crime", and therefore BLM isn't protected speech. That's where your argument goes, right?

What you're suggesting here - that BLM dispassionately discuss these killings, while patiently waiting for the police to investigate themselves to discover the "truth" - is a super white privilege-y thing to say. The police have proven repeatedly that they cannot be trusted to investigate themselves. Police officers conspire to keep each other out of trouble, they're consistently caught falsifying reports, they destroy evidence - including government-owned equipment, illegally confiscating civilian phones, and in the case of Philando Castile, deleting a Facebook post. Here on the worst possible Earth, it pretty much takes riots and assassinations just to get a federal investigation of the police force, instead of letting a state agency sweep the whole thing under a rug.

I mean, reason and calm is a brilliant ****ing idea, that. Just let me know when the police are trustworthy enough to deserve it. Because right now, they're just as corrupt as any other kind of unskilled laborer.

Edit: This is the second time in this thread I've had to tell you to check your white privilege. I hate talking about white privilege, I broadly don't think it's a socially important thing and I believe it's the surest way to degrade the discourse on any subject. But you just have so ****ing much of it unchecked that it's almost unbearable. Holy **** go for a walk in a downtown somewhere.

I'm more interested in hearing why Jones objects to "campus feminism," considering the astonishing rates of sexual assaults at American universities.

He probably believes the results are false or "biased", based on many of the twerps out there who cannot comprehend science and repeat that line.

Sorry, don't know how to play this video :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc24YtUslCU



Basically this.

zully, I'm sorry for ever questioning your comments about Reverend Jones in the past. My mistake.

Jon, I think you can rest your case. There is no way I can recover from that final blow. I admit that my contention that Black Lives Matter should be considered morally culpable for violence against police is totally unsubstantiated.

You have changed my point of view that drastically reforming the role and norms of police and courts wouldn't necessarily have to be the first step in a plan to turn around depressed black communities. I struggled to respond to your post last night, but I think the moment I realized I was wrong was when you pointed out the rightful lack of trust blacks have for the police, which made me realize that crime can never be solved if the community does not feel safe in helping out with investigations, even if the government did have the resources to investigate every crime.

I would certainly be interested to know if you think that intense government and community effort in solving this single issue could cut the Gordian knot of crime in poor urban cities. If I had to guess, you'd probably reject such a singular approach, and argue that poverty along racial lines and the various associated ills would nevertheless keep crime at levels hostile to gentrification. I myself feel that the problem of brain drain is always going to be an incredibly difficult problem to confront.

As for having a particularly bad case white privilege, I agree with you too. What seemed like a watertight argument to me nevertheless revealed a bigger lack of perspective.

To Reid, Freelancer, and FGR, I hope you can believe me when I say that I definitely do empathize with black people, even if I did (and to an extent still have) reservations about the approach taken by Black Lives Matters. My intentions are good, and me being upset at the death of police officers was more intended to point out a contradiction with the goals of BLM, than to show tribal support of police officers.

To answer your question about feminism of college campuses, Antony, I didn't mean to imply that I question the implications of rape surveys, as discussed in Reid's video†. It was a very minor point, but the kind of language used in that infographic reminded me of some rather tenuous or just off-the-wall ideas I'd encountered in what I'm told is called third-wave feminism. I more or less meant "campus feminism" as a synonym for this, since it is seems to mostly be student protesters who have been making some of most inane arguments.

Anyway, sorry everybody for wasting your time, and making an idiot of myself. If you want to further mock or shame my behavior, I won't hold it against you.

† That said, come on, man! Why did you link me to a guy debunking some other inane video I'd never seen, by Sargon of Akaad? What is the value in that?

Having said all that, and given the general proclivities of the people in this thread, I'm sure you'll all agree with some dog-piling on American foreign policy. Did you guys notice that in both cases, the black separatists who targeted police in Dallas and Baton Rouge were former soldiers? This is the kind of thing that reminds me of that speech in Full Metal Jacket, where the drill instructor bragged about mass shooters who were trained in the marines.

It's actually a pretty great example for comparison in this case, as it seems you've taken a cursory glance at the matter and proceeded to construct some half-assed stance built on an imaginary narrative that allows you to marginalize a problem that you're lucky enough to never have to worry about.

No... I am not at all trying to marginalize the problem of rape on college campuses, and how dare you assume that. Please give me a break.

If you must know, I was taking issue with some of the more ridiculous rhetoric. Just look in the thread I linked Reid to at the top of this page, about the ridiculous and obnoxious rhetoric and tactics employed by U. Toronto protesters, for some examples of insanity coming out of gender studies. Don't for a second think that you can accuse me of attempting to dismiss the entire feminist movement for being critical of individual feminists who say ridiculous things.

Edit: wrong page number

At any rate, I see you haven't taken seriously my plea to consider the possibility that my intentions in critiquing Black Lives Matter were good (if misguided).

Relax, nobody's accusing you of anything.

Let Antony speak for himself.

Maybe Reverend Jones was drunk posting. You seemed like a free thinker there for a moment. Fortunately you were white shamed back in place.

freethinking has a left-wing connotation, though

"I am oblivious and dismissive about protestors, but that doesn't mean I don't agree with them."

Wookie, to be a free-thinker implies having the ability to change one's mind, or at the very least be open to criticism.

Reid, that sentence

1. looks more like Javascript than English insofar as punctuation and capitalization are concerned, and
2. is dangerously close to contradicting itself.

You know nothing about my views on feminism, so kindly **** off.

If you try to view freethinking as an abstract ideal, then you're right; freethinking is a term with historical context.

You claim I speak like Javascript? that's a new one

I said it was dangerously close. You were basically right in my opinion, but I wanted to give you a bad time. No hostility intended.

My comment about Javascript was also meant playfully--you seem to be omitting punctuation at the end of your last sentence, presumably because of some kind of minimalist attitude toward orthography you've absorbed from programming languages.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/19/opinion/the-road-to-baton-rouge.html

Man criticized for being presumptuous responds by calling his critics presumptuous.

That would go really well with the contention that BLM is a violent, racist, terrorist organization and that feminists are the real sexists.

Blocked.

He was *******-shamed. Stop race baiting.

Something strange happened in the news today. Apparently, the press has picked up a story about a police captain being shot and killed in Kansas City, Kansas. The weird thing about this is that there is no indication that the shooting was premeditated or targeted.

In other words, it seems that the media has decided that this is a hot topic and has decided to pick it up, no matter how unnewsworthy.

How is that strange, though? Seems par for the course to me.

The Guardian, a UK newspaper, is covering it (it's on their homepage), which is not normal.

Anyway, there is definitely a precedent for this kind of thing, if it's not obvious that the media is generally subject to fads and paranoia.

Actually, I think I probably misread your post, since the thing you seem to be saying is par for the course is the sensationalism of the media, rather than coverage of cop shootings.

Oh, I see. My punctuation is terrible because I'm just lazy. To be honest as well I suck at programming, I can just barely smack together code for working on math research and that's about it. Which means I pay close attention to how my algorithms are working and none to the orthography.


Interesting, so it was one of the right-wing nutjob sovereign citizen movements that informed the Baton Rouge shooter. I wonder how that will be spun.