I was thinking the exact same thing. There were enough implied or just similar things to Star Wars EU stuff to make me happy. I also don't really care about Kyle Katarn not being in the film. Really, why should he? It was a throw away tutorial level. Nothing more. It probably should have stayed in the demo and probably didn't because of the huge volume of levels that were cut. I remember actually being very negative about Kyle Katarn's portrayal in DF2. He was a gruff, battle seasoned mercenary in DF and that never lined up with where they took the character. Of course that doesn't mean I don't like the game but they're clearly two different characters and we needed both of them. Hell, Kyle Katarn from DF should have gone on to be in Dash Rendar's place along with Jan and another character could have been the Jedi Knight. This could have led to Dysh Rendarso starring in Rogue One.

I really really really want them to start making movies that don't have anything to do with the central storyline that was laid down in the original trilogy. There is an entire universe to explore! And I'm not talking about like a "yoda origin story" or crap like that. You need to be at least one generation removed from everything else.

Is there, though?

There should be an entire universe to explore!

(is that better?)

Isn't there a Han Solo origin film in the works?

I really liked The Han Solo Triliogy in the EU. Or was it Han Solo Chronicles? I wonder if they'll keep any of that around

There were two! Del Rey published a Han Solo trilogy in 1979, and Bantam published one about 20 years later. We're due for a third one.

I bet the Han Solo movie will decide the fate of the Indiana Jones franchise.

Given how the movie ended, I'm glad they didn't wind up using Kyle and Jan.

It's poetic though; she actually turned into star dust.

Whoa. Good point.

Out of curiosity, do any of you nerds genuinely *want* a younger Han Solo film starring Hobie Doyle?

Sure, bring it on. I'll watch all the Star Wars except for those animations on TV.

I don't think I genuinely *want* any new Star Wars at all. I'll see them as long as they're good, and I'll enjoy them if they are (I ****ing love Star Wars), but mostly I find myself excited to see what the directors/actors I'm interested in are doing with the IP. And then when it inevitably turns out to be, at best, well-executed Star Wars, I realize what I really wanted was to see new, fascinating, more groundbreaking stories being told by these writers/directors/actors.

I'm excited about Blade Runner 2049, but I already have a strong suspicion that afterward I'll just wish the effort had gone into Denis Villeneuve's Original Science Fiction Story. I'll take the next Snowpiercer over the next Rogue One any day, despite how much I genuinely enjoyed Rogue One.

Snowpiercer essentially has the same faults for me as Rogue One does in that I really never gave two ****s about anyone in it whatsoever.

Ah, I agree with saberopus, it's not that new SW are bad, more that I'd rather see all the money and effort going into original films.

Well, other than the criticism that Ep VII was a remake of Ep IV, they are original films. I understand that you mean an original franchise but the sheer volume of remakes and reboots is annoying although I know that media producers are simply and rightfully too risk adverse to back original concepts.

I'm not particularly interested in a Han Solo movie. I'd rather see some brand new characters. But that doesn't mean I won't go see it. I'll stop seeing them when they get as bad as the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. After 2 Disney Star Wars movies they're not anywhere near there. So far they're better than most of the prequel trilogy (although overall I don't like the prequel trilogy, they do have some parts that I really like; yes, even in EP1, I'm ashamed to admit).

Speaking (again) of the prequel trilogy... does anyone ever get the desire to go back and watch it again? I've seen the original trilogy dozens of times or more. Every year or two I want to watch it again. But I never get that desire with the prequel trilogy. I saw TFA twice and R1 once and I'd like to see those at least one more time, but it's hard at this point to know if I'll be like the OT where I'll want to see them over and over. Is this just because I watched the OT originally when I was younger or are they really that much better?

The only one I ever really want to watch is III but I (virtually) never do.

Not even hot and bothered by Tilda Swinton's character?

If you enjoyed a star wars movie with PUNS. And Admiral backbar calling for a 'Hammerhead Corvette' in a STAR WARS MOVIE.
The movie does nothing but refer to fanboy nostalgia, with a boring chick and boring band of rebels we are told to care about. A PUN. Darth Vader uses 2 PUNS in Kathleen Kennedys star wars. Screw off.

Vader's always been about his dry humiliating humor.

I find your lack of faith disturbing [as he's choking Motti]

Apology accepted, Captain Needa. [As he's choking Needa]

We would be honored if you would join us. [Inviting Leia, Han and Chewie to dine with him after capturing them]

Perhaps you think you're being treated unfairly. [As Lando complains about the deal he's made being changed]

Perhaps I can find new ways to motivate them. [When told that the construction crews are working at full capacity]

The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am. [as a not-so veiled threat]


And fortunately cut from RotS, because it was a bit much:
“We were promised a reward,” she gasped. “A h-h-handsome reward“
"I am your reward,” the Sith Lord said. “You don’t find me handsome?”

“The war is over-Lord Sidious promised-he promised we would be left in peace …”
“His transmission was garbled.” The blade came up. “He promised you would be left in pieces.”

I think it had more to do with the delivery than the content, old Vader was more deadpan, the new Vader threw on a bit of sass.

"You know what, that's the best scene ever. You just talked me into enjoying it. You just debated it into a good scene."

When the Vader line was spoken, a bunch of people in the audience groaned, myself included. On some level the scene failed, you can't debate away that reaction.

What scene are you talking about again???

"Be careful not to choke on your aspirations" (after Vader's choked Krennic a bit using the Force).

I didn't have a problem with that bit, and only realized after the movie that it was the pun a lot of people thought was out of place.

For me it was more about Vader's movement that felt a bit off. It didn't help that the old German voice actor of Vader is dead. I wish I could have seen the movie in English.

Did the old German voice actor compare favorably to James Earl Jones in that role in your opinion? I could go look up some clips I guess.

Ah ok. I thought Vader's voice sounded a bit off and figured it may not have been James Earl Jones at all... Weird. The line didn't bother me.

I'm absolutely not waiting for some young Han Solo adventures.

While the prequels have a lot of problems, they felt a whole lot more like Star Wars to me than the two Disney efforts. At least Lucas didn't try to copy what he did with the OT.

RotS was actually pretty damn good. The only thing I disliked about it was that utterly stupid Grievous.

TFA was a completely unoriginal homage/rip off.

I didn't give a **** about the characters in Rogue One either. I can't quite put my finger on it.

I'd rather see them make something entirely unrelated to the main storyline of the Lucas films.

I wonder if Young Han Solo will be as good as Young Indiana Jones.

The thing that always seems the most off is how the post-PT Jedi/Sith depictions are so much more powerful that OT predictions. Vader ripping through that Rebel ship is exactly what you'd expect after RotS but if you started watching Star Wars at Ep I then in IV you're wondering why Obiwan and Vader seem so sedate.

Totally agreed. It would have made more sense to jump forward in time to explore how Luke's abilities got stronger or something, rather than jumping backwards in time and suddenly all the tech is light years ahead and the force is so much more powerful.

The time scale was all screwy for me. When the original trilogy said vader "hunted down and killed..." the jedi, it made it seem like that took a while, not like it just happened pretty much overnight. And then it actually wasn't vader (except the kids I guess, and even that wasn't "vader").

I guess so. I can't really say as this was the Vader I grew up with. But I realised how ****ty the voice could be when they added one line in the Special Edition of TESB. And I think back then the old actor was actually still alive and working.

??? German voice actor? It was always David Prowse in the suit with JEJ as the voice, no? EDIT: Oh wait, you must be talking about the German dubbed version. We don't dub films where I live. Thankfully.

Also, what the hell is with editing your post and not being able to make paragraphs?

Sorry, this forum system sucks. Like really bad. You could try going into your settings and changing from enhanced to basic editor (or changing the other direction) but I'm not sure if that works. At some point we'll have a reasonable replacement

It's a new problem to me. I used to be able to edit my posts without that problem. I'll try your suggestion, thanks.

I wanted to make this post sooner, but I've been busy. Now I am sick and have all the time in the world!

When I left the theater, I felt like I did when I first watched Star Wars as a kid. I have issues with it, but above all, it reminded me just how lackluster The Force Awakens was.

I bought Leia's CGI far more than Tarkin's. Her animation played to a its strengths, but their choices for Tarkin made it difficult to pass off as real. It's also kind of insulting to the original actor, in my opinion. Kerry Fischer's reimaging served the narrative. They used Peter Kushing's likeness as a cheap throwback, leveraged for exposition alone.

I was most concerned with the acting choices by these character's writers/animators, though. Tarkin seems like a leader who would admonish other bad guys for petty **** like stealing credit. Tarkin to me is cool and calculated, as if he enjoyed solving the problems more than being in charge. I might be lending him some of Thrawn's attributes as well as his depictions in other EU books.

A friend pointed out how out-of-place Leia's smile is. Fischer's attitude as Leia contrasted her appearance. She looked like a scared, wet rat at the beginning of Episode 4. Luke thinks she's stunning! That's why the damsel in distress trope played so well into the setup to her no bull**** attitude. I went back and watched all her scenes in the original trilogy, and even when she's happy she rarely smiles. She most often makes an exasperated look. I still got so excited when she was handed the plans, so I was a serviced fan.

I think I would've just preferred new actors, myself. Genevieve O'Reilly's depiction of one of my favorite characters in SW, Mon Mothma, was brief, but breathtaking for me. I thought it was Robin Wright (from House of Cards fame) because the performance was so stunning and subtle. Mon Mothma always struck me as this regal, powerhouse of a leader in the rebellion, and sealed the Fantasy element of Star Wars for me as a kid. Her title wasn't Queen, but she seemed like one. O'Reilly nails this, and it primed me well for the rest of the film.

Vader's choking dialogue didn't make me cringe, but the scene was timed and edited poorly to make it come across as slaptstick. As mentioned, it's consistent with many of his other lines that I personally love. I also found his epic and suspenseful final scene to be reminiscent of the stiff fight he has with Obiwan. I thought it was quite apt, intense, and disagree with criticisms here to the contrary.

Why did Forrest Whitaker sic a psychic tentacle porn monster on The Pilot when he was sympathetic to the cause? That seemed like an unnecessary and unexplained scene. I understand that he's supposed to be the good-guy version of Vader--pragmatic and a little insane. I get that it was a throwback to Vader using the torture-bot on Leia. I am still trying to figure out what scene got cut that made it feel less forced. I didn't like his arc much at all, but I tend to think Forrest Whitaker is overrated so take that with a grain of salt.

I agree that they tried to cheat with the blind guy and his beefcake, but I still felt like we were missing one more alien character. I wanted ONE more space battle too. The hammerhead thing tickled me pink, though. I also found the pacing to be all over the place, and actually started losing it around the time Rogue One is formed. I counted 4 acts, myself. There were some pretty obvious editing choices that suggest this is a recut of an initial cut, and after looking it up I was correct.

Many people I've talked to hated how the rebellion didn't believe them and that they had to go out and prove it. I think this was both important in universe, and for some of the underlying messages of the film. I think it was weak, but they carried through this idea that the rebellion is this ragtag group of organizations that sometimes agree. That unifying their forces behind this one goal took convincing.

What I think what people are cuing in on here is that there's no real conflict in the film without this element. The first half of the film is consumed by a relationship between two characters we don't know. The second half is the power fantasy of said redeemed character that I still don't know very well.

I enjoyed the film quite a bit as a Star Wars fan, but I still think it fundamentally lacks as a film. It was almost there though, and I think it would've served the film far better if it were even more independent. Yeah, most of the people seeing it have context and it is fan service, but it would be less of a bait and switch if it could stand on its own.

Finally, I want to say that the outfits that Jyn and Cassian are wearing at the end of the film are such patently obvious throwbacks to Jan and Kyle. I cannot believe I am the first to point this out.

Giant pic: http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Rogue-One-Jyn-Cassian.jpg

You're right, I was pretty certain their characters were a nod to Kyle and Jan as well.

Your comment that it doesn't work as a standalone film is apt. Without context of the SW universe, the film would literally make no sense.

I forgot to mention that as soon as the John Williams score kicked in at the end, I realized the rest of the film's score fell really flat to me. I didn't dislike it, and there were a couple of parts I'd love to listen to again, but it was markedly NOT a John Williams score. I have to see it again before I decide if this is actually a bad thing or not, but I think some of the contrast and dissonance in JW's work would've lent itself REALLY well to this film.