check out amsterdam, cafes galore! its legal there and it hasnt destroyed the lives of a nation. and i think all drugs are perfectly fine as long as you make the conscious decision to make them, because then it isnt my problem.

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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.

yeah, I spent about half an hour asking this dutch kid about that...

"so... there aren't stoned guys lying EVERYWHERE in the streets and stuff?..."

All you need to do is concede that marijuana is unhealthy, and I'll be satisfied. The issue of legalization will be settled through either a democratic or republican process.

Septic, you're perfectly okay with cokeheads and heroin addicts? LSD and angel dust?

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead

Ok, Wolfy, I have shown studies that show the tumor shrinking and anti-tumor effects of various chemicals in marijuana, including THC and another canniboid. Even if marijuana contains more carginogens then tobacco, which I don't think it does, then you are still unlikely to get cancer from marijuana.

Find one person who died of from cancer directly related to smoking marijuana. And even if you can, GUESS WHAT? hundreds of thousands die from tobacco related cancer every year. So how the fk are they equally dangerous?

"so... there aren't stoned guys lying EVERYWHERE in the streets and stuff?..."

yea...maybe if they were on heroin...or of course our good buddy alcohol.

cokeheads, heroine addicts, lsd, pcp?

first, LSD doesn't go with those drugs, it is completly different.

Do we not already have heroin addicts? Has prohibition changed a THING? Do you think many people choose not to do heroin because it's against the law? No! The people that don't do it, do it because it is horrible for you. The people that do it, do it because they are addicted. So what would change if it were legalized? Putting people in prison for injecting/smoking/snorting a substance is not the answer. This is how we get hardened criminals. Jail is like a giant university of criminal activity. A guy goes in with a bachelors in marijuana, and comes out with a masters in cocaine.

[This message has been edited by Raoul Duke (edited January 22, 2004).]

I'm afraid I can't, because, when a person dies of cancer, it's not written as "died of cancer induced by marijuana," it's, "cancer."

LSD is a drug. I'm failing to see why it should be disregarded simply because you think it's a "completly different" drug.

I've never said I supported the jailing of addicts. I've said, before, that I support their admittance to rehabilitation centers. Simply because people continue to do stupid things, doesn't mean we should allow stupid things to be legal.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead

[This message has been edited by Wolfy (edited January 22, 2004).]

Well, you can find deaths of tobacco related cancer quite easily can't you?

Ok, to put it another way, if the chances of getting cancer from smoking are the same as from smoking pot, then why do 400,000 people die every year from tobacco, while no one dies of marijuana?

[This message has been edited by Raoul Duke (edited January 22, 2004).]

Oh people do die from marijuana. It's not cancer, it's when they operate vehicles or other such machinery while stoned.

400,000 people die from smoking because they smoke packs/day for 3 decades or so. If people smoked marijuana at the same rate or less, we would see that death rate as well.

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<scribbly handwriting barely resembling name>

That's BS man. Driving stoned often results in slow, overly careful drivers. I'm not saying its a good thing. I think driving stoned is dangerous and stupid, but the truth is, it usually does not end up in an accident. You'd be shocked to know how many people are driving stoned around. Too many people do it, but cmon, you want deaths from driving accidents? Sounds a lot more like our good buddy ALCOHOL!

I hope you also think alcohol sound be made illegal otherwise your views are horribly twisted.



[This message has been edited by Raoul Duke (edited January 22, 2004).]

No, I don't want alcolhol illegal. That was tried in the 20s and look what became of that decade.

*sigh* This thread is going nowhere. I see it in the posts. Wolfy and co., try as hard as they might, are not really going to convince you guys to stop the pot.

Although I'm bewildered as to why you are so upset over the U.S. Government trying to do a good thing, and spending just a mere $4.5 million.

Anyway, I'm done.

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<scribbly handwriting barely resembling name>

Ok,

1.) These ads do not discourage drug use at all. They are not effective one bit.

2.) A mere 4.5 million? Now thats ****in ignorant. Spend 4.5 million to "save" a few american kids from the devil marijuana, likely do the opposite, or spend 4.5 million for food and shelter in Africa, or some other program that would do a HELL of a lot more good then some dumb commercials during the super bowl.

I'd rather the money be spent for the benefit of the American people first.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

You mean a raise in the defense budget?

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Of war, we don't speak anymore

$4.5 million is nothing when it comes to the defense budget, but it would do some good for domestic programs samrt guy.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

Acid isnt addictive and its got different effects, its like putting apples and carrots in the same group (i mean, both foods, but fruit and veg)

and i couldn't give a rats *** about junkies, its not the needle in my arm.

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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.

Right, right. Isolationism. I mean, it worked so well prior to World War II and World War I.

LSD is a drug. LSD is a drug. LSD is a drug. LSD is a drug. LSD is a drug.

Thus, when you say, "I support the legalization of all drugs," this, in fact, includes LSD.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead

[This message has been edited by Wolfy (edited January 22, 2004).]

Ok. What do we about this? What does the American government do regarding this? What would you tell The President and the 535 members of Congress?

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<scribbly handwriting barely resembling name>

Apparently something they don't want to hear concerning people's ability to make a choice.

The problem I see, on the topic, is that it's a [ridiculously expensive] superbowl ad.
You can buy adtime anywhere, why the superbowl?
To get attention? I mean these had better be some damn good comercials, with actual facts, and some kickass CGI.

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Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....

Either you're not old enough to be in the workforce, or your state is very, very lax with safety standards.

Over here, workplace major injuries/deaths are investigated by a government department called WorkSafe. This includes coronary reports to check for intoxication or drug use in the victim.

Some places, like if you get a job out in the mines, have random drug & alcohol checks anyway. You fail them, you don't work.

This is just getting into a big drug flame evil nasty thread. Me walks away.

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Madquack and Firbnic have a signature.
*Remnant Temple beta almost done*
Light And Darkness

Wow.....I open up straight to the 3rd page and I see all of this cluster**** of posts. Some of them are just down right retarded. I'm going to post my views real quick.

Marijuana should be available for medicinal use. I don't think it needs to be completely legalized, but I also realize it will end up that way. Marijuana is bad for you. Not nearly as much as other drugs or cigarettes(which should be outlawed imo) but it is still unhealthy. I would say it is about as unhealthy as alcohol.

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"What I find especially funny are the neo-Celtic religions based on accounts made by the Romans. It's like learning about Judaism from Nazi lore." --stat

That's another thing. Why are so many people so bitterly against the use of medicinal marijuana? No one has said anything about it in this thread, but just in general.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

Not really, it's being handled rather civilly. I see no name calling here, at least for now.

I think a point that was brought up before is that drugs in general* have no real, viable, positive effects. If something has a 0/- effect on society, it shouldn't be done. As far as being banned, I don't know.

But another point is that for whatever reason, drugs are illegal. Use isn't just use, but disrespecting law. And why do you think those laws are there? For fun? Is there a big buisness reason behind it? Any reason with malice behind it? No. It's because on some level, in some way, they are harmful.

"But they have it legal in Europe!!!111" Are we Europe? No, I didn't think so. You can't have a one size fits all system of laws all over the world. Maybe this is a relflection of other self control issues, who knows. But we shouldn't lead our life based on what others do. Just because Billy jumps off niagra falls and survives doesn't mean you will too Jimmy.

[edit]* I don't know. What exactly is the medicinal value? I always thought it served as an easy aid to "exit" as it were, but it being pared up with "medicinal" makes me think otherwise. As far as my posting, I'm talking about "recreational".[/edit]

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KDY-The Friendly Star Destroyer People

[This message has been edited by Lord_Kuat (edited January 23, 2004).]

I have no problem with it being legalized if it is only made available through strict background checks and prescriptions.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead

I don't believe anything that is said about marijuana being used medicinally. There are pain-killers. Do they not work as just as effective? If not pain-killers, what about other medicines? Don't they work too?

No, I don't buy it. I think it is an excuse just to use the drug.

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<scribbly handwriting barely resembling name>

a.) Drugs suck
b.) Drugs do NOT suck.

I think we get it.

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Gondor has no pants.
Gondor needs no pants.

Some of those other pain killers are opiates, as in heroine, but no one complains about them because they were created by a drug company. To say someone can use a form of heroine as a pain killer but not marijuana is a little hypocritical

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

[This message has been edited by Avenger (edited January 23, 2004).]

I know opium is given to people who are hospitalized, but heroin...?

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead

It's not full blown heroin, but rather codeine which is derived from opium. Same drug group, same affects.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

[This message has been edited by Avenger (edited January 23, 2004).]

That and they are all horribly addictive, including some if not all of the synthetics, and require trained medical personel to administer them, so as to not get addicted.

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Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....

wolfy... i dont get your point...


drugs should be legal, and each individual should be held responsible.

(on another note, i doubt you put caffine and heroin in the same group, although theyare both drugs, correct me if i'm wrong here)

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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.

Yes, they are both drugs, but heroin does this, while caffeine, when not taken in excessive amounts, does this. Really, comparing heroin to caffeine is like comparing manslaughter to genocide.

Laws against drugs are preventitive measures only - to help prevent people from getting drugged up and then doing something stupid that endangers the lives of other people. It is also the job of the government to protect the people, and I'm failing to see how making unhealthy, unregulated substance abuse is not protecting them. And before some moron cries out about tobacco and alcohol, I would have no problem if they fell off of the earth, either.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead

[This message has been edited by Wolfy (edited January 23, 2004).]

but comparing drugs to murder in a debate about legalisation is silly also.

all i mean is that a drug is a drug, and they should be legalised to stop the crime aspect, and to stop the money reaching undesireable sources, and that people should be responsible for themselves if they decide to do these drugs, because its not anybody elses fault for their own stupidity to stick a needle in their arm, i'd rather a heroin user was doing it in a clean, controlled environment, as opposed to a dirty squatters den full of AIDs riddled needles and smack-babies.

[edit]just like it is the responsibility of a caffine drinker not to drink it in excess[/edit]

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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.

[This message has been edited by Septic Yogurt (edited January 23, 2004).]

I'm not comparing drugs to murder. I'm comparing a relatively small degree of something to one of grand degree. Additionally, comparing the side-effects of heroin to the side-effects of caffeine is ridiculous. Caffeine results in headaches and diarrhea; heroin results in nausea, vomitting, depressed respiration, possible spontaneous abortion - and those are just the short-term effects.

Legalize it because it's dangerous? What kind of logic is that? Person A is dirt-poor because, due to their addiction to heroin, they landed in the gutter. Heroin is legalized. Person A scraps together what little cash they can obtain, spends it on commercially-produced and legalized heroin, and ends up in the gutter. How has Person A's situation improved?

If you contend that prices will drop due to commercial production, what basis do you have for that? What's to prevent commercial companies from keeping the prices high, or the government taxing the Hell out of it?

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead

[This message has been edited by Wolfy (edited January 23, 2004).]

you forgot accidental death.

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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.

The argumnet for the lagalization of drugs is that a regulated indusrty wouldbe created to produce and distrubute the drugs. There would be less of the drug lord style crime, the drugs would be clean (not cut with who knows what), etc.

I don't agree with that, but those are some of the arguments people make.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

and it would be good from a government perspective, 25kg of 100% pure heroin costs about £25, on the street, it would go for a five figure sum, think of the taxation opportunities

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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.