The architecture is almost done. Hopefully learning scripting and NPC placement won't take long.

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[This message has been edited by Sine Nomen (edited May 26, 2003).]

:0 wow thats amazing, i love the blue in the first shot.

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I love the smell of dflt.mat in the morning

Sine, Sine, Sine.... once again, that is magnificent. Excellent work.

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Just another witty signature.

I'm so psyched for this level, I'll even reinstall JO to play it!

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Great... now I have to go get a new video card.

I love you and i hate you... its like i wanna marry you and kill you at the same time... you... rock.

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..."And I think Mr. Frodo, I do understand, I know now. The folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didnt. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something. That theres some good in this world, and its worth fighting for." -Samwise "The Brave" Gamgee

now i have to get JO

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and the menkey said WRAA!!!

Is that the space that you asked for the color and you took orange from me?

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A computer's worst nightmare:
0010111010011110210011010001

Excellent atmosphere.
Finish him!

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<Kedri> Kedri: guiding geeks to the promised land since 1999.

1 of 14

I think the blue in the first shot is a little too much; It doesnt look realistic.

Maybe tone down the intensity a little bit?

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I'm just an old man with a skooma problem.

My feelings here too, GuNbOy. Those blue lights dont seem like they should give off that much light in that amount of darkness.

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Television is my only friend.

that is exactly how Nar Shadaa should look Sine. Excellent work and attention to detail.

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saberopus
<Thrawn|PizzaEating> You're a good mapper

//From the mIRC files\\
<mavispoo> I can't sleep
*Cazor gets into bed
<Cazor> We will "sleep"
<mavispoo> Oh god, I'm not stuck in here with you am I?
<Cazor> ...
<Cazor> yes
<Cazor> hehehehe

Excellent. In the first shot, how tall were the people that put that graffiti on the wall?

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Well, if you want my opinion it looks a little too well-maintained for Nar Shadda. If you read the descriptions in the literature or try to make out the artwork in Dark Empire it's actually quite a VERY run-down, dirty, filthy place.

This would look GREAT for the mid-levels of Coruscant but it's not slummy (is that a word?) enough for Nar Shadda.

Needs a couple layers of dirt...

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
http://www.xwaupgrade.com

SaxSoft Productions
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net

Sine's work is largely based off Dark Empire... It looks a great deal run down to me, and remember this is only JO, not some fantastic 3D render that can have incredible amounts of detail.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Saxman, I'm sorry, but you're full of it.

I've researched for Nar Shaddaa. I've studied pictures and descriptions from novels, comics, and guides. I've looked at the best-done portions of it as represented in games. I've attempted several times to recreate it in levels before realizing that I do not have the skill nor the patience to recreate Nar Shaddaa faithfully.

Sine, this is DEAD-ON Nar Shaddaa. It could not be more perfect. I've seen some horrible representations of Nar Shaddaa. Hell, I haven't been happy with a Nar Shaddaa level since DF. Your level has the exact right amount of grime and rust, the perfect balance of city and industrial complex. The only thing I can think to add are the sky ways somewhere in there (I have a modified ships shader (the one seen in JO) that someone made me for one of my Nar Shaddaa attempts that you can use if you want, but I'm guessing you have something planned.

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Dark, Darker, Darko

I've spent way too much of my life doing that already.. with the inherent limitations of having to reuse textures, and like Emon said, not being able to include copious amounts of detail, it's the best I can do. The Nar Shaddaa in Dark Empire is quite cool, but the illustration is such that you can't really make out much about the structure or the coloring of the city, seeing as how nearly every locale is rendered in monochrome. I'm also going by Dark Forces' rendering of Nar, which isn't nearly as grimy.. probably for the same reasons.

Without giving away too much of the plot, this takes place about 60 years after RotJ. The Hutts are consolidating their power over their holdings, and so some of the areas they control probably aren't as run down as the Corellian sector.

Darko, et al: thanks. It's nice to know that my anal retentive obsession over really insignificant stuff doesn't go unnoticed. =p I had completely forgotten about the ship shader four made.. that'd be perfect.

Chuckles: the yellow graffiti (it reads: "kak") is slightly above the player's eye level. Some of Nar's alien denizens are a good deal taller than the average human; for the same reason, I've been making most of the corridors a lot taller than they have to be to accomodate the player.

[This message has been edited by Sine Nomen (edited May 26, 2003).]

omk it says kak

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superlicious!

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"Bantha's are filthy animals.......I don't eat filthy animals."

"Laugh it up Fuzzball!"
-Han Solo

Darko: The games as reliable reference = bad. They're full of concessions for gameplay(X-wings less maneuverable than TIE fighters is a big one) and screen performance.

And there was no need for any "full of it" remarks. I didn't say it was bad, I just said it looks like it'd fit better somewhere on Coruscant than on a planet run rampant with crime and corruption that's more or less run by the Hutts. It's an OPINION and I'm bloody well entitled to having it and voicing it.

Sine: Remember that Nar Shadda was reduced to a pile of molten slag and turned into the Island of Dr. Moreau by the Yuuzhan Vong. Considering it's still up in the air how exactly NJO is going to end it's a fair guess they wouldn't have a planet-wide city rebuilt THAT quickly.

Because of your setting that could be a storyline reason why it's a lot cleaner than the original city: The place was leveled by the Scarheads and they had to rebuild it. To that effect you might add signs of that: Unfinished buildings, construction equipment, etc.

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
http://www.xwaupgrade.com

SaxSoft Productions
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net

Purdy!

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Current Maps

All's well that ends well; if it ever ends at all.

Obsessed much?

As it's been said, Sine's depiction of Nar is as close as any game has ever come to matching the descriptions given in the EU. Your critiques would be absurdly difficult to include, and the level is already a pretty big undertaking... so why insist on the inaccuracy again? You've made your point already.

[This message has been edited by Threnody (edited May 27, 2003).]

Yeah.. in my version of events, neither the Yuuzhan Vong invasion nor NJO ever happened. Alien invasions are not Star Wars, imo...

Sine, why not just make it a couple years after JO, and make everybody happy?


That, and .....

When's it done? When's it done? When's it done? When's it done? When's it done?
When's it done? When's it done? When's it done? When's it done? When's it done?
When's it done? When's it done? When's it done? When's it done? When's it done?
When's it done? When's it done? When's it done? When's it done? When's it done?
When's it done? When's it done? When's it done? When's it done? When's it done?


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*Joren, Legend, Alleged Egomaniac, Thread-Killer, and 6th Grade Spelling Champ*

Oh, yes. Yes yes yes. Yes, yes, yes.

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Sigs are for n00bs.

[1337 FRNDS_Pommy | 3.14 of 14 | » And-GTx2]

I support completely Sine taking out the Yuuza--whatever the hell-- Vong crap.

..and Saxman, try reading my post again. Games were only one of the things I listed when I was researching Nar Shaddaa for my levels. And let me spell it out: YOU'RE WRONG. This looks PERFECT for what Nar Shaddaa has been described as in all EU material I've seen.

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Dark, Darker, Darko

Yes! Incredible!

If you need any updates to the skybox (if you're still using it, that is), just email me.

Cheers,
Goofz

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A friend told me that George Lucas has said Dark Empire, Thrawn Trilogy, and New Jedi Order are canon. This is pretty much because he can't be arsed to write more stuff that occurred after the movies and that he thinks the writers are excellent. A hint of this: Coruscant was not called that name until Zahn used George's ideas for a political city planet for ROTJ originally named Had Abbadon. He scrapped this idea for ROTJ because he didn't have the technology to represent such a place and knew that he would eventually represent it in the prequels. Then Zahn came along and used the idea in his Thrawn Trilogy of novels and called it Coruscant. George then used that name in the prequels and we got a first glimpse in ROTJ SE. (useless but nice information)

You can do what you want Sine, I'll just imagine they rebuilt Nar Shaddaa.

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Television is my only friend.

Ugh, I wish I had a working copy of OpenGL so I could install JO and edit it...


Beautiful work Sine.

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Actually the EU is non-canon. List posted a while back by LucasFilms, Ltd to answer this question once the EU literatue began appearing:

ONLY the films, film novelizations, and radio drama adaptations are canon. Artwork and other such related materials used to make the films, provided it does not contadict the final versions as seen in the films, may also be considered canon. The radio dramas, novels, and presumably concept material serve to fill in the gaps left by the movie (the Derra IV Massacre is mentioned in the ESB radio drama, making Commander Narra's existence and death canon, however his participation at Yavin is NOT canon because it's mentioned in none of those sources) and there's a strict hierarchy in the event of disagreements (which happens due to changes in script/etc during poduction): The radio dramas are overridden by the novels, and the films override EVERYTHING (therefore the Rebel Medical Frigate in RotJ is one of the small Nebulon-B Escort Frigates as shown on-screen, NOT one of the winged Liberty-class Star Cruisers referred to in the radio drama and novelization).

The EU and various games, technical manuals and other resources are considered official, but NON-canon as long as they don't directly contradict the films. The canon sources override the EU/games/other lesser offical souces (the size of the Executor being the most obvious).

Anything NOT made by LucasArts/LucasFilm or anything that directly contradicts the canon sources falls under the category of apocrypha. This includes fanfiction/films, as well as official literature or productions that contadicts or is overruled by the movies (which includes the novel Splinter of the Mind's Eye, written before Empire Strikes Back was conceived, and the Star Wars Holiday Special). It's never made clear whether elements of EU literature which contradicts the canon renders the entire work as apocrypha or not (IE: Zahn's trilogy sets the Clone Wars exactly 50 years prior to ANH, directly contradicting the setting as presented in the Prequel Trilogy. However does this make the entirety of the Thrawn Trilogy apocrypha?)

Lucas can therefore contradict the EU literature all he wants. It's not a part of the canon and he has no obligation to include it in the history of the Star Wars Universe and numerous examples exist of the prequels directly contradicting the EU (Threepio's age and origin, Owen Lars is NOT Obi-Wan's brother, the Death Star was NOT designed by Bevel Lemelisk in the Maw).

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
http://www.xwaupgrade.com

SaxSoft Productions
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net

[This message has been edited by The Saxman (edited May 27, 2003).]

how do you know that much about star wars? ive seen you post that much on other threads too...great work as always sine.

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About canon/not canon:

IT DOESN'T ****ING MATTER! I don't care what contradicts what, it's still Star Wars, it still can be great literature, and I really don't give a **** whether or not it's canon. I am especially annoyed by both pro-EU idiots who are like "Ohh, it's still canon this new book explains the inconsistancies blah blah blah" and anti-EU idiots that are like "STFU n00bz its nut jorge lookis its not cannon FOOLZ omgn00b i juzt hate EU cuz i'm lazy 2 red LOLOLZ omgwtf"

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

and saxman: I think it's okay that it's not correct as to what George Lucas wants, because he'll never see it. BTW, we are glad you can type a lot of stuff from 'an eyewitness guide to starwars' but we don't really need it.

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saberopus
<Thrawn|PizzaEating> You're a good mapper

//From the mIRC files\\
<mavispoo> I can't sleep
*Cazor gets into bed
<Cazor> We will "sleep"
<mavispoo> Oh god, I'm not stuck in here with you am I?
<Cazor> ...
<Cazor> yes
<Cazor> hehehehe

see that wooden rectangular object you obviously never touch? it's a door... turn the knob (it's probably a round metal thing) and open the door... now... walk outside look at the green stuff... this is grass... don't eat it but you can step on it... now look up... that big bright hot thing is the sun... it may hurt your eyes so don't look directly at it... see those white (or gray) fluffy things? they are clouds... now start walking around... try to avoid walking in the large concrete strips we call roads... eventually you will find other people... TALK TO THEM

the last step in this process is VERY important



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Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway.

I don't even need to look at the screens to see if they are good!!

*presses hotkey*
Once again, amazing work Sine

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Official Staff of Massassi Temple:
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Moral to the Story: Don't Mess

This is getting ridiculous. Saxman obviously has a broad expanse of knowledge regarding Star Wars and attempts to share it freely, giving constructive criticism - yet time and time again I see the same old replies from people: "Get outside, Saxman, you nerd!"

Look at where *all* of you are - the same Star Wars website. Grow up, give up the immature comments, or don't bother posting at all.

I do feel that Sine is (more) right in his interpretation of Nar, simply because I have never seen someone so obsessed with Nar before, someone who has gone to great lengths to find inspiration and as much reference as he can while filtering out the ridiculous EU crap (ie, NJO).

Yeah I agree with that, jipe. Sorry if I sounded rediculous or anything in my post, I didn't mean to, and I'm just really annoyed with all the nonsense on the subject..since it's like, nonsense.. so you know, it doesn't make sense, hence nonsense... sense...

Edit: I should also point out I wasn't talking about Saxman earlier.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[This message has been edited by Emon (edited May 27, 2003).]

I... want... more... SHOTS... MMMMM!!!!11

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..."And I think Mr. Frodo, I do understand, I know now. The folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didnt. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something. That theres some good in this world, and its worth fighting for." -Samwise "The Brave" Gamgee

Head or chest?

Good stuff.

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Author of Spaces, inventor of the electric 'Rotating Door' bringer of 'Rain', and the Harvest Season.