I've decided it's time to put my models where my mouth is and show off some of the ships I've been designing for my SciFi story idea. This thread will be updated periodically with new images as I get around to it. First, however, some technological background to put you all in the proper frame of reference.

Survey of Materiel, Earth Confederate Armed Forces (4262 CE)

The Earth Confederate is the youngest of the major interstellar flight-capable political entities inhabiting the Milky Way Galaxy. Locating its governmental and military center in the Sol System, with the capital itself located in Geneva, Switzerland of Earth's European District, the Confederacy has a total of twenty full member-systems with colonial districts far out into the edges of the ring known as the Galactic Habitable Zone. The majority of the population is human, with four recognized member races. The Confederacy is also home to a large population of naturalized immigrants from other regions in the Habitable Zone.

Owing in large part to the human capability to rapidly and easily adapt combined with determined ingenuity, the Confederacy quickly became a major power in the region. The Confederate Navy is one of the best-trained and equipped military organizations in the galaxy, deploying some of the most advanced technology known to science.

Propulsion and Maneuvering

Ships constructed by the Confederacy rely primarily on electrostatic drive systems for low-relativistic acceleration and maneuving in deep space. Fuel is easily supplied and offers a superb balance of efficiency and performance. Confederate warships are typically faster than their analogs in other fleets, with greater range and endurance allowing longer operational deployments during peacetime operations. This drive system is used on all manner of craft, from fighters all the way to full-scale combat warships.

Most smaller vessels rely on a combination of differential and vectored thrust for maneuvering in deep space. Control in atmosphere varies depending on the individual craft but often involves the use of traditional control surfaces. The effects of Newtonian Physics in vacuum operation is countered by sophisticated flight-assistance computers linked to the main flight control systems. These computers automatically compensate for the zero-drag and infinite acceleration affecting craft in space, allowing pilots to maneuver their craft without significant changes in velocity. Built-in safeguards also prevent pilots from executing maneuvers that could cause catastrophic damage to the ship or endanger the pilot (pilot tolerances are frequently aided by the use of pressurized G-suits).

In the case of larger craft course changes are affected through a series of control thrusters distributed along key points of the hull. These fire in specific sequences to enabble the ship to maneuver, as well as to lessen the stress of course corrections on the hull. As with smaller ships computer safeguards protect the ship from executing an acceleration or high-G maneuver that could cause endanger the integrity of the vessel's internal structure, while the internal gravity systems help insulate the crews from the effects of sudden or extreme acceleration.

Virtually all larger ships, and some smaller vessels, are capable of supra-light travel. Called a Rift-jump, the vessel sends out an energy pulse that forms a rift in space-time in the ship's path. As the vessel enters the fabric of space-time is warped, effectively "shrinking" space. While the vessel never actually exceeds or even nears the light barrier, a ship can cover vast distances in times comparable to travelling exponentially faster than the speed of light. However the amount of energy required to create a rift is immense, and depending on the distance of the jump it may take a vessel considerable time to build up the energy to do so again.

Weaponry

The Confederacy makes use of several differing types of armaments tailored to specific uses. The most common are a variety of proectiles and energy weapons.

Chemical-burning Projectiles

Chemical-burning projectiles are the least-costly and smallest weaponry in use throughout the galaxy, consisting of a cartridge loaded with some form of combustible chemical that when ignited, typically by impact from behind, fires a solid projectile. With the exception of the most primitive cultures this type of weapon is used exclusively in small arms, including pistols and lighter infantry rifles as the energy demands of a powered weapon are too great to use in anything so small. The size of the bullet varies on the individual weapon, and jacketed armor-piercing and incindiary types are common.

Railguns

Consisting of two parallel rails magnetically charged by an energy source that use contact to fire a projectile at ultra-high velocities, while not nearly as primitive as a chemical cartridge projectile, railguns have largely fallen out of use in the Confederacy and are considered obsolete as a practical weapon. However they are still occaisonally found as heavier anti-personnel weaponry (including some larger assault rifles and fixed automatic positions). Some of the Confederacy's oldest starships still carry them as anti-fighter defenses, however most of these have either been retired or are in the process of being modernized.

Coilguns

A development from the railgun, coilguns consist of magnetic coils installed along the interior walls of a gun barrel. When powered by an electrical charge, the coils fire a solid projectile at even greater velocities than a railgun.

While these weapons require more power to fire, they have two major advantages over the older railgun: First, since the weapon is discharged at a higher velocity a coilgun projectile will have greater ranger and accuracy and will also strike with far greater energy. Combining this massive amount of kinetic energy with an incindiary round can be devastating against a lightly-armored target. The second advantage is the projectile does NOT come in physical contact with any part of the barrel. A railgun however requires contact between the charged rails and the projectile. As a result the magnetic coils on a coilgun are not worn out as easily as the charged rails, giving the weapon a much longer useable life.

Because of their much smaller size, rapid rate of fire and high-energy projectiles coilguns are ideal fighter-mounted weaponry and are the heaviest fixed guns carried by small-scale combat craft. They are also used as ground-based artillery, anti-vehicular weapons, and heavy anti-personnel weaponry. Coilguns are also commonly employed as anti-aircraft guns both on the ground and aboard combat vessels. Some smaller starships also mount larger coilguns as primary weapons, however a coilgun projectile is relatively ineffective against heavy armor.

Plasma Cannon

The plasma cannon is the main ship-mounted weaponry in use by the Confederacy. These weapons fire a bolt of magnetically bottled plasma-energy. On impact the plasma is released, resulting in a high-energy detonation against the target's hull. Much of the damage is caused by the great amount of heat generated by the energy blast, although the concussion of the impact alone has been known to buckle hull plates.

However plasma cannon require a great deal of energy to superheat the fuel gas into plasma, making them prohibitively large to mount on smaller vessels. The interior of the cannon barrels are magnetically charged to prevent damage by the superheated gas. This field actually spins around the circumference of the barrel, acting on the magnetic bottles containing the plasma and functioning much like the rifling used in chemical cartridge projectiles. This further improves both the accuracy and range of the plasma as it is fired.

The magnetic bottles eventually lose integrity once fired and break down, causing the plasma to detonate and limiting the range of these weapons. This is deliberately manipulated on smaller examples, allowing gunners to use the plasma much like flak, throwing up a hail of exploding energy against smaller vessels.

There are a large variety of scales of these powerful weapons. One of the most common has an interior bore of 190cm and are found on most medium and large Confederate warships as primary or secondary weapons.

Missiles/Torpedoes and other Ordinance

Missiles and torpedoes are most easily described as heavy weaponry carried in limited numbers by other vessels. They are solid projectiles, with internal independent guidance and directional control systems and are tipped with high-explosive warheads. These potent weapons come in a variety of sizes and for a multitude of purposes, including air-to-air, air-to-surface, and even as anti-shipping weaponry. Warhead size doesn't make the distinction between the two; the Aurora heavy anti-shipping missile system, with its massive antimatter warhead, is more powerful than any torpedo used by the Confederacy. Missiles are typically contact weapons, requiring physical impact to set off the warhead and focusing their destructive energy into a smaller area, while most torpedoes are proximity weapons affecting wider areas.

The Confederacy also uses a variety of mines, guided and unguided bombs and rockets and other ordinance, typically aboard smaller craft like fighters.

Defenses

The Confederacy does not use any type of protective energy shielding, (experiments with using magnetic shielding to defend against plasma impacts in the early 4000s indicated that the amount of power necessary to successfully shield a hull was incredible and ultimately impractical) and instead depend on armor made up of a varying array of composites, alloys and layered ablative plating of varying thicknesses and densities. Armor plating carries a high heat-tolerance due to the widespread use of plasma energy.

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
http://www.xwaupgrade.com

SaxSoft Productions
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net

good luck have fun

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Wit' so much drama in tha Massassi, it's kinda hard bein' Deth-D-O-double-G

Zzzzzz....

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Dark, Darker, Darko

tl,dr

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[This message has been edited by Jon`C (edited April 1, 2003).]

Trafalgar-class Battleship



Length: 9600 meters (approx)
Beam: 4190 meters (approx)
Depth (includes superstructure): 1147 meters (approx)

Weapons Hull

Length: 6400 meters (approx)
Beam: 4190 meters (approx)
Depth (includes superstructure): 954 meters (approx)

Engine Module

Length: 3200 meters (approx)
Beam (with armor): 3000 meters (approx)
Beam (without armor): 2124 meters (approx)
Depth (includes superstructure): 796 meters (approx)

Displacement: 1,000,000,000 +/- metric tons (approx)

Crew

Officers: 15,000
Crew: 135,000

Armament

Weapons Hull

1x particle cannon
16x 40m plasma cannon (8 turrets of 2)
120x 570cm plasma cannon (60 turrets of 2)
33x 570cm plasma cannon (33 turrets)
34x 190cm plasma cannon (34 turrets)

Engine Module

13x 570cm plasma cannon (13 turrets)
14x 190cm plasma cannon (19 turrets)

Measuring a total length of 9.6km, and with a displacement exceeding one-billion metric tons, the Trafalgar-class battleship is the largest free-moving starship ever constructed. She is a marvel of starship engineering, greater than three times larger than the Mars-class battleship, previously the largest Confederate warship, and is 50% larger than a Kranth Man-o-War.

These vessels are HEAVILY armed. Her primary armament consists of 120 dual 570cm plasma cannon turrets distributed in three gun decks (two dorsal, one ventral) in her massive forward weapons hull. This firepower is supplemented by forty-six individual 570cm turrets, and forty-eight of the smaller 190cm single turrets. In addition, she carries sixteen of the MASSIVE 40m-bore ground-based planetary defense plasma cannon modified to be fit aboard eight dual turrets in a trench along each side of her forward hull. These immense guns are carried explicitly for the bombardment of fixed heavy targets in space and on the surface.

However the ship's largest weapon is the experimental particle cannon. This massive cannon fires a concentrated stream of high-energy particles at a target. The damage inflicted by the energy beam increases exponentially the longer it is active and in contact against a target's hull, and given enough time can literally carve an enemy ship in half!

The Trafalgar's hull is in two distinct modules. The forward hull, containing the bulk of the ship's weaponry, and her uel, main reactors and other critical systems, makes up a full two-thirds her total length. The weapon's module is shaped like a giant wedge, and the bevelled hull surfaces allow her to fire virtually her entire armament in the forward arc. A Trafalgar-class battleship can concentrate an IMMENSE amount of firepower against targets in front of her while maintaining the capability of entering a traditional broadside engagement.

This heavy forward firepower is critical to her primary mission profile: these giant ships were specifically designed to shatter an opposing battleline and break up fleet formations. To help protect the ship in these frontal assaults the forward hull wedge was wrapped in an armored body shell a full twenty meters thick. All other areas of the hull, including all exposed superstructure feature the standard six-meter armor plating.

The ship's aft module is made up entirely of her massive engine systems. While the module itself is armored six meters thick, to help protect the vulnerable drives during a broadside the Trafalgar was equipped with an armored shield on each side using the same twenty meter armor protecting the weapon's hull.

The Confederacy currently has six of these gigantic ships in service, with a seventh under construction.

BB-1100 CSS Trafalgar
BB-1101 CSS Jutland
BB-1102 CSS Salamis
BB-1103 CSS Mobile Bay
BB-1104 CSS Savo Island
BB-1105 CSS Hampton Rhodes
BB-1106 CSS North Atlantic (incomplete)


Forward view, showing the particle cannon emitter. The omnidirectional focusing lense allows the weapon to be directed against virtually any target in her forward arc.


Aft view showing the engine configuration. An attack on the stern, particularly from the ventral plane, is one of the few vulnerable areas of the Trafalgar-class.


Close up of the rear superstructure and aft gun deck.


Close up of the forward-dorsal superstructure. The other major vulnerability of these ships is rather poor distribution of small-scale weaponry. The Trafalgar is heavily reliant on her escorts for close-range defense against smaller combatants. The highest tower in the forward superstructure is her forward gunnery observation center and is located immediately aft of her main bridge.


Ventral superstructure, includes secondary fire-control centers.


Closeup of 40m dual turret used for heavy bombardment against fixed targets. These massive cannons can only traverse, so elevation must be corrected by altering the ship's orientation relative to the target. Note dorsal main gun decks and dual 570cm turrets.

Note: The resemblence of this ship to any other fictitious starship design is purely incidental and in no way based on that ship itself. It is instead based on the same PRINCIPLE of a real advantage of the design.

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
http://www.xwaupgrade.com

SaxSoft Productions
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net

[This message has been edited by The Saxman (edited July 23, 2003).]

<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> Virtually all larger ships, and some smaller vessels, are capable of supra-light travel. Called a Rift-jump, the vessel sends out an energy pulse that forms a rift in space-time in the ship's path. As the vessel enters the fabric of space-time is warped, effectively "shrinking" space.
<Deth> hey, i'm at 1499 posts on the forums
<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> Um...thats...just about putting Star Wars and Star Trek's form of travel in different words
<Deth> too bad i don't post there anymore, unless someone posts a link in here
<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> Everyone forget creativity, lets just use different words
<Deth> not like it matters, who really cares about his idea anyway
<Deth> there's some kind of line between playing and enjoying a game or other form of media, and devoting your time and energy and brainpower to it on an utterly ridiculous level
<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> why not have something CREATIVE for once, like an energy form that rips the ship apart and sends it speeding through space in atom sized particles?

<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> Chemical-burning projectiles are the least-costly and smallest weaponry in use throughout the galaxy, consisting of a cartridge loaded with some form of combustible chemical that when ignited, typically by impact from behind, fires a solid projectile.
<Craig> and yes..ripping that off
<Deth> we need TELEPORTATION
<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> Lets all forget that theres no oxygen in space.
<Deth> i could see my girlfriend EVERY DAY
<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> Lack of oxygen = No boom = no projectile

<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> A development from the railgun, coilguns consist of magnetic coils installed along the interior walls of a gun barrel. When powered by an electrical charge, the coils fire a solid projectile at even greater velocities than a railgun.
<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> Um..and how exactly is this any different then railguns?
<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> Right. Its not.
<Craig> well the projectiles are faster haha
<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> A railgun however requires contact between the charged rails and the projectile.
<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> Wrong. Yawn.

<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> Anti-matter warheads, hm? The same kind of anti-matter that doesnt do anything when it hits actual matter?
<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> It would be a misnomer if this 'anti-matter' bomb just destroyed matter (Which isnt possible)

Boo. At least constrain your stupid idea's to fit in a believable environment. Thank you, good night, you've been great, folks.


Edit - Ships lack any and all creativity. In fact, it all lacks creativity
"Note: The resemblence of this ship to any other fictitious starship design is purely incidental and in no way based on that ship itself. It is instead based on the same PRINCIPLE of a real advantage of the design."
Right, and we all know how high-tech a giant wedge with...two...curved panels (Right...) sticking out of it is. You make Baby Jesus cry.


[This message has been edited by Ishionu (edited July 23, 2003).]

Pretty soon you'll be ragging on Lucas and Roddenberry for ripping off Einstein and Hawking. There's only so many different ways you can rephrase those theories and hypothesis.

"<Ish`DarkSideOfTheMoon> why not have something CREATIVE for once, like an energy form that rips the ship apart and sends it speeding through space in atom sized particles?"

That sounds remarkably like Star Trek's transporter beam to me...

Also, you can't exactly rip off established technology that's been in use for over FIVE HUNDRED YEARS. And you DO realize that if combustion was impossible in space that giant fusion furnace we call the sun wouldn't work, right?

And incidentally if you'd bothered to read more carefully you may have noticed that I specified that these guns are handheld small arms ONLY. Nothing ship-mounted or even used in space.

As for the wedge, it's historically been a problem with warship designs that some areas of the ship can't bring as much firepower to bear as others. Traditionally this has been in the forward and rear arcs as most vessels dating back to the days of sail were designed for line tactics (hence the pre-Dreadnaught term "Ship of the Line") and turning the ship's side to an enemy, presenting maximum available firepower.

More important was maneuvering your ship into areas where the target had less firepower to be able to shoot back. The most common tactic was called "Crossing the T," where one battleline attempted to sail across the path of an opposing battleline. If you manage to cross your enemy's "T" all your ships are able to train their maximum firepower (from the broadside) onto the enemy formation, but because the enemy is sailing into you, the only guns they have that can shoot back are the small number of forward guns of the leading ship.

Being crossed was usually fatal since it would take far too long for the formation to disburse and turn their own guns into the enemy without suffering heavy damage as a result. The real trap is that even if the enemy's ships attempted to reverse course and escape the line was still under heavy concentrated fire, so whether they attempted to engage or withdraw it was virtually guaranteed that their losses would be severe. The Battle of Jutland is a good 20th century example of this (strategically the battle was a draw, although the Royal Navy gave a little better than they got in terms of ships sunk even though they were crossed).

The 3-dimensional nature of space combat changes things a little, especially some of the limitations of ship design. A broad wedge wouldn't work well in wet-navy since the wider hull wouldn't be as streamlined, slowing the ship and limiting its ability to maneuver. However in vacuum there's no drag to worry about. The beauty of a wedge with a beveled dorsal and ventral surface is that it removes the main obstructions that would prevent a ship from turning the majority of its guns forward (namely, the vessel's own interior bulheads, superstructure, or even the other forward guns). It's a VERY simple, very BASIC form, but it's EFFECTIVE.

And incidentally, if you're trying to imitate the kind of criticism I make about models you've missed the target by about a hundred miles. I try my hardest to keep my remarks CONSTRUCTIVE and I'd appreciate that same courtesy instead of pointless insults.

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
http://www.xwaupgrade.com

SaxSoft Productions
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net

[This message has been edited by The Saxman (edited July 23, 2003).]

As I'm not a Star Trek fan I wouldnt venture to guess how their transporters work, but even I know that the transporters move people, not ships.

You should learn about this. You see, the sun is a massive energy ball with its own gravity and magnetic force. With a constant nuclear fusion creating energy in the core (Not the outer layer thats exposed to the vacuum of space), which moves away from the core. Nuclear fusion in the sun is a constant thing, pushing out. But with a chemical explosion it would go out far too quickly and there would be nothing to substain the explosion. You see, thats how the sun manages to work. Gee, and here I thought everyone above the 9th grade was supposed to know this.
I missed the part where you said the 'chemical-burning projectiles' was for infantry use, I was having too much fun criticizing all the things you dont have a reply to on IRC. And why dont you just say 'gun', as these 'chemical-burning projectiles' arent something you created? I dont go around calling a computer an 'electrical using date storing machine'.

Another thing I'd like to point out is the giant particle cannon on the front of the ship. Wait, didnt I see this before? Maybe Star Wars, a certain ship or two called Eclipse class star destroyers? Gee...and the front half of it seems oddly shaped like a star destroyer.

To quote Roach: "Uh . . . I have a belly button".

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Have a good one,
Freelancer

Lets look at this reeeaaal quick before I go to bed. As we're talking about space, theres no constraints to the shape of the ship to reflect to environments, like a ship having to float. Now, lets look at our geometric figures. Lets pick an elongated sphere. Hmm, one row of guns would equal to the fire power of one of your ships. But, wait, whats this? Top mounted and bottom mounted turrets that can face either way? Doubling the fire power? NO WAY!

As for 'imitating your criticism', I would in no way want to stoop down to your level of self-absorbed naivety. You fail to recognize creativity in any form and instead turn out dull overused shapes while spitting out useless information dealing with a completely different type of environment. To put it simply, it would be best if you stepped down from your uneducated criticism of others work and focus on putting more effort into your own. Or you could go out and do something with your life.

...
You know, I bet there's a way you could make a wet-navy ship... A boat... that had vaguely the same principals as a Star Destroyer...
Let's see... I'm thinking a relatively thin square shape, bridge in the center (or towards the front) with the guns arranged in rings around it. Like a mobile island.

-Yeah... Well, now that big stupid ship from my pirate story has a better design then "The Titanic, but with wood".

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"I'm Thomas. Thomas Johnson. I'll be there if you leave the microwave open. I'll be there if you touch the third rail. I'll be there if you turn on the gas before you light the match, or lose a round of Russian roulette. I am at the end of every road. I await you past the last heartbeat. I am the Grim Reaper. I will be the death of you."
-Thomas Johnson, the Black Angel of Death

"I wonder... what might happen if I were to open this door. This simple, wood paneled door. What would happen? Would I find a closet? A bathroom? A kitchenette? Or would I be treated to a nightmarish vision of a universe beyond ours, a universe of meaningless powers and frightful entities with a need to express their sadistic urges? Or a bedroom?"
-St. George in the Hotel California

Am I the only one who completely bypassed all the text and just went straight for the pictures? Jebus... my attention span at 8:15 in the morning is frightening. It's pretty, that's all I'm really qualified to say.


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The Forge - SuperS51's Model Portfolio

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."

You pissed off a lot of people in the past, so I can't see how you wouldn't see the hostility coming. I see it as a working model of the golden rule.

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Current Maps

Stomping Grounds (Newest Addition)

Look up my nose and see your future.

Ishi, I'll run through this real quick-like since apparently we seem to be having a failure to communicate:

Constructive Criticism: "It's interesting, but maybe you should consider this..." or "Something's seems out of place, maybe if you..."

NON-constructive Criticism: "That ship is such an unoriginal piece of **** and all your ideas are ripped off."

Hereafter anything that could possibly be interpreted as non-constructive and will be summarily ignored.

Now that that's been said...

Mars-class Battleship



Length: 2955 meters (approx)
Beam: 624 meters (approx)
Depth (includes superstructure): 620 meters (approx)

Armament

12x 570cm plasma cannon (12 turrets)
52x 190cm plasma cannon (52 turrets)

At the time she was introduced into service, the nearly three-kilometer Mars-class battleship was the largest warship in the Confederate fleet.

The big blimp-shaped hull, vaguely similar in appearance to late-20th Century military submarines, houses the majority of the vessel's critical equipment including crew quarters, her reactor and propulsion systems, central computers and fuel storage. The hull is well-armored and wrapped in a body shell six meters thick. Command and control facilities, as well as the vessel's complement of weapons are found around the superstructure on the dorsal and ventral surfaces.

Unlike the much larger Trafalgar-class the Mars is a Dreadnaught. The primary weapons are twelve 570cm plasma cannon mounted in single turrets along the centerline, six forward and six aft. Fifty-two of the smaller 190cm turrets are grouped around the superstructure as secondary batteries primarily for use as close-range defenses against smaller targets.

The Mars is rather unusual for a space combatant in that she has no truly discernable dorsal or ventral surface. Her hull is symmetrical, evenly dividing firepower on both the dorsal and ventral planes with her critical command and fire-control systems mirrored. This provides the big ships with a major tactical advantage in combat, as many vessels are somewhat more vulnerable to an attack from below. In addition, vital components in the superstructure are doubled providing the ship with a measure of redundancy in the event that heavy damage is sustained to one surface.

BB-907 CSS Mars
BB-908 CSS Earth
BB-909 CSS Saturn
BB-910 CSS Mercury
BB-911 CSS Centauri
BB-912 CSS Neptune
BB-913 CSS Venus
BB-914 CSS Jupiter
BB-915 CSS Uranus
BB-916 CSS Pluto
BB-917 CSS Tholas
BB-918 CSS Deimos
BB-919 CSS Luna
BB-920 CSS Titan
BB-921 CSS Ganymede
BB-922 CSS Europa
BB-923 CSS Savath
BB-924 CSS Os Tial
BB-925 CSS Taravath
BB-926 CSS Sovis
BB-927 CSS Enot
BB-928 CSS Sol
BB-929 CSS Vath
BB-930 CSS Resi
BB-931 CSS Owtin
BB-932 CSS Re’s’fai
BB-933 CSS Nebula
BB-934 CSS Blue Giant
BB-935 CSS Event Horizon


The vertical symmetry of the Mars-class provides a slight advantage to the ship in combat. She is less vulnerable than many ships in an attack from below, and the doubled command and fire control facilities provide a degree of redundancy if the ship takes heavy damage.


Main engine configuration. The angled armor on the flanks enables the main batteries to converge at closer ranges than otherwise possible, and also makes it more difficult for enemy fire to strike the vessel squarely.


Close up of the superstructure. Note the 190cm turrets for close-range defense.

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
http://www.xwaupgrade.com

SaxSoft Productions
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net

[This message has been edited by The Saxman (edited July 23, 2003).]

Perhaps it's just me, but I think the hull would look better if it came to a point, not to an oblong flat surface. Once again, aesthetics is about all I'm qualified to criticise.

I'd actually considered that myself and am inclined to agree. Haven't decided exactly how to go about doing it yet and haven't had time to really look, been working on some other things of late.

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
http://www.xwaupgrade.com

SaxSoft Productions
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net

Wow that's alot of text.
nice models, I like em.

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On a Swedish chainsaw: "Do not attempt to stop chain with your hands or genitals."
Immorality- 1 Cor. 6:18, 2 Tim. 2:22
Impure thoughts- Col. 3:2, Phil. 4:8
Alcohol- Eph. 5:18, Prov. 20:1
Anger- Gal. 5:22, Porv. 20:3
Pride- 1 Peter 5:5, Dan. 4:37
Worry- 1 Peter 5:7, Phil. 4:7-6
speech- James 1:26, Eph. 4:29-5:2

You could stick more guns on the front if you left it like that.

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They're well made, but everyone is right, they're not original at all. That first one looks like a star destroyer with a tie bomber glommed onto the back of it.

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Dark, Darker, Darko

I was thinking the same thing. The first one reeks of Star Destroyer, the second one reeks of that fuel ship from JK. First one is rather obviously intentional, but the second one may not be.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

...welcome to 1942 in space. That looks like mixes of ships from SW with WWII-era guns glued on.

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"B-but why is the rum gone?!" - Captain Jack Sparrow

The SUN is not BURNING, GENIUS.


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Wit' so much drama in tha Massassi, it's kinda hard bein' Deth-D-O-double-G

Originally posted by Super S51:
____________________________________________
Am I the only one who completely bypassed all the text and just went straight for the pictures? Jebus... my attention span at 8:15 in the morning is frightening. It's pretty, that's all I'm really qualified to say.
____________________________________________

no i felt the same way too. im not going to waste my time readin all that.




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"Never look down on anybody unless you helping him up."
-Jesse Jackson

Well, I too obsess about the styles of my ships, but to go so far as to name every single individual one?

-Whoa.

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"I'm Thomas. Thomas Johnson. I'll be there if you leave the microwave open. I'll be there if you touch the third rail. I'll be there if you turn on the gas before you light the match, or lose a round of Russian roulette. I am at the end of every road. I await you past the last heartbeat. I am the Grim Reaper. I will be the death of you."
-Thomas Johnson, the Black Angel of Death

"I wonder... what might happen if I were to open this door. This simple, wood paneled door. What would happen? Would I find a closet? A bathroom? A kitchenette? Or would I be treated to a nightmarish vision of a universe beyond ours, a universe of meaningless powers and frightful entities with a need to express their sadistic urges? Or a bedroom?"
-St. George in the Hotel California

The story sounds a whole lot like Babylon 5's. The ships look too conventional, IMO. They look almost like they're designed to be aerodynamic - maybe you could solve two problems at once by breaking up the flat surfaces with gun or RCS thruster towers.

The ships also don't really have a visible design ethic that links them. That was the one thing I didn't like about the new Trek ships from FC and DS9 - aside from the coloring, they didn't share a style or ethic.

nerd alert! nerd alert!

[This message has been edited by Sine Nomen (edited July 23, 2003).]

You loose all credibility for posting this incredibly wrong statement.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Combustion as we have all come to know takes this reaction:

<hydrocarbon> + O2 --> CO2 + H2O

Of course this is a basic form. Other products come from other reactants.

The sun, however is powered by nuclear fusion. There is no combustion whatsoever in the heart of the sun. Hydrogen fuses together to form helium under astronomical pressures and temperatures. The rest of the sun, it's just a heated ball of hydrogen and helium. There are some other elements present too.

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CWizard *pWizard=new CWizard("Gandalf","white",2021);
pWizard->EnableWizard(TRUE);

I have a headache now....

I'll post something constructive when the pain is gone...

If plagiarism was a subject in school Saxman would have made valedictorian. Nice Babylon 5, Star Destroyer and Medium Transport ripoffs.

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[This message has been edited by Jon`C (edited April 1, 2003).]

The models and background, while obviously has a lot of effort invested in it, is misplaced. Whether this be for a game or just a pure story, might I suggest these references:

Game Design: Secrets of the Sages
Edited by Marc Saltzman, published in 1999

Game Design Perspectives
Edited by Francois Dominic Laramee, published in 2002

Get in the Game!: Careers in the Game Industry
by Marc Mencher, published in 2003

The first one may be hard to come by, as I got it in a package with some other stuff. You might want to pick up Stephen King's "On Wrtiting" book as well, as it is geared more towards story-telling than game-aspects. Course, "Elements of Style" I hear is a classic too, but I haven't gotten around to that myself.

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Check out the following stories over at the Interactive Story Board:
The Never-ending Story Thread or visit the new webcomic version!
The Vision Cycle series
Featured Story: Ideal Nightmare

Quest into new worlds or question the deep parts (and not so deep parts) of life at Merlin's Citadel!

Plagiarism is an UGLY word to be throwing around just because the end-product comes out looking similar to something else.

Fact: The wedge design has minimal obstructions, allowing more guns to fire forward in the forward arc. That's what I wanted for that ship and there's only so many ways to integrate that shape in the design. The resemblence to a Star Destroyer is incidental, and even then only PASSING. If I'd ripped the whole design I'd have added a massive trapezoidal conning tower to the rear.

Fact 2: I don't watch B5, so once again any resemblences is incidental.

Plagiarism is taking someone else's work and passing it off as your own. If you're going to argue that just because my ship HAPPENS to use a wedge it MUST be plagiarised then you may as well argue how ILM ripped off a geometry book.

Oh, or how about the fact that the same themes in Star Wars have been used in practically EVERY WORK OF FICTION since the first caveman picked up a lump of charcoal. Hell, the whole Trilogy was inspired by Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress," so I guess George plagiarized HIM.

And if we're getting hung up on "stolen" technology, then I guess Remington plagiarised Colt's revolvers since it's OBVIOUS a rear-mounted hammer is used to fire the gun and they both load their rounds in a rotating cylinder.

Muurn: Sort of, the design concept for is Dreadnaugh-era (turn of the 20th century through present) so fewer, but larger, turreted guns. The only reason the Trafalgar has more of a Victorian armament is because based on the smaller ships guns built to that scale would have an internal bore of nearly 2km which is just plain ludicrous.

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
http://www.xwaupgrade.com

SaxSoft Productions
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net

[This message has been edited by The Saxman (edited July 23, 2003).]

Clearly you did not detect the obvious satirical nature of Jon`C's post.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

I doubt your wedge design is entirely coincidental with the Star Destroyer. And even if it was, people are going to think you ripped it off, no matter how many technical explinations you give them.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

....quite the little hissy fit you can throw...quite the example of being able to dish it out but not take it, too.

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Dark, Darker, Darko

I liked the Trafalgar-class Battleship, while the rest were just a bunch of pollygons.

Honestly Saxman, I admire your intelegence of the SW universe, and beyond. But no model needs to have a bloody 3½ page essay discribing its interactions with every sub-atomic partical equated into the mass of the essay. It's just a model. You literally ruined looking at the picture. Words to picture ratio: 10,000 to 1, and that's honestly probably an understatment.

JediKirby

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Epic: Episode I TC, Epic: Podracing Mod MP/SP, Epic: Starbattles Mod MP/SP

A box with guns on all sides would be more effective.



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A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk I have a workstation...

Guns pointing in a forward position. What happens when you are attacked from the rear? Yeah, you're screwed.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Sine: The only ship that's really going to be a radical departure is the Trafalgar, there'll be more of an observable design lineage between the other ships in the fleet (once again, the main reason I couldn't make the Trafalgar a Dreadnaught is because the guns would have to be ridiculously huge).

Gebohq: This isn't for a game, it's background work for a Fantasy/SciFi story I've had brewing for a while. This is also why I'm taking the time to not only design the different classes, but NAME them all as well. I want to be able to keep track of what ships are available to use, where they're assigned, and when (and if) they're destroyed. Great way to keep continuity intact.

Darko: I can take suggestions for improvement. I'm open to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism which I'm willing to take into consideration (as with S51's recommendation of altering the Mars-class bow so it ends in more of a point rather than a flat surface). I will NOT stand around to be accused of ripping off something else or lack of originality just because of passing similtarities.

Emon: I don't detect sarcasm well early in the morning. And there's more differences than similarities between those ships. About the only thing they have in common is the wedge-shaped main hull and a pre-Dreadnaught gun configuration (which as mentioned before was only necessary since the guns would have to be too large to make her a Dreadnaught). The superstructure is entirely different, the engines of both a Star Destroyer and Super Star Destroyer are part of the main hull wedge while mine are not. In fact the main source of inspiration for the Trafalgar's final design was a garden trowel.

You could spend all day looking at similar pieces of real-world technology and arguing whether or not they're ripped (see my example of early Colt and Remington revolvers, outwardly similar and using the same concepts despite much different internal mechanisms).

You'll also notice she DOES have rear armament, in fact altogether she has more large guns that can fire astern than the Mars' total main armament (the larger guns only).

Kirbs: You should read my full design history of the Trafalgar. As I mentioned above this is all background work for a story and I believe in showing the reason for a design right from the start.

Farix: Not really. With a simple box you'd still have issues with parts of the ship's armament being obstructed by the hull from certain angles.

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
http://www.xwaupgrade.com

SaxSoft Productions
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net

[This message has been edited by The Saxman (edited July 24, 2003).]

Oh please, not that stupid morning excuse. That's almost as bad as Friend14 dragging on a debate for three pages and then saying what he has been arguing was the cause of him being tired for the first post.

No, Saxman, you take everything literally. I have seen it in every post you make.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Semi-Example: The Borg Cube.

Only difference was it didn't have guns on all sides, not that I'm aware of...

Saxman: Nice ships, but I have to agree that when I saw the first one, my initial reaction was, "Oh, a varient of the Star Destroyer..." The similarities between the two are too great, be it because the design works or not. Among other things, It looks to me that the gunning level between the wings has guns FACING the wings. Would they not get shot off if the guns were fired?

The Mars is, from what I can see, a direct mirror. You just copied the top half and pasted it on the bottom. Looks kinda weird. Especially as it's not readily apparent which side is UP. I'd add more features to whichever side is the top making it more distinctive.

I found your exstensive detailed specs on each ship to be quite tiring to read. Basic rule I follow: post it, give 'em some info., then clarify if someone asks. Otherwise I think it's safe to assume not many will care.

Hope some of that comes as constructive to you.