On the subject of constructive criticism, telling someone what not to do is constructive. Telling them exactly what to do is just passing out idea's. Now, if you had something that actually could work I'd tell you some small changes you might want to make with it.

With the Mars class ship you should have one side with a slightly different bridge for the viewers reference to which is the top and which is the bottom.

And this is kinda funny...
"Lets look at this reeeaaal quick before I go to bed. As we're talking about space, theres no constraints to the shape of the ship to reflect to environments, like a ship having to float. Now, lets look at our geometric figures. Lets pick an elongated sphere. Hmm, one row of guns would equal to the fire power of one of your ships. But, wait, whats this? Top mounted and bottom mounted turrets that can face either way? Doubling the fire power? NO WAY!"

You say you're not going to listen to me, then 4 hours later you have a model of exactly what I said. Wow.

I like the name Event Horizon, nice touch, if its really a reference to the movie as I am assuming.

And, on a different note, the 'good guy' ships are always rounder and brighter. The Star Destroyers were made like wedges to imitate spikes, viewed as dangerous. Its all pyschological. I hope you realize that the people who made the SW movies made the ship designs for cosmetic purposes and not actual combat designs. Why else would the Death Star have a massive exhaust pipe in it?

...to vent heat?

------------------

Ooh, pretty pictures.

------------------
Your proctologist called. He found your head!

I still suggest the Stephen King reference and such I give, as well as the more specific game-related ones, as the advice and such given (by top game designers, artists, etc.) apply a great deal to all forms of media, stories included.

And as you've mentioned that this WILL be a fantasy/sci-fi story, you've given yourself a great deal of freedom; use it to make sure you tell a good story. While continuity and back-history for your story is important, too many "fantasy" writers are hung up over histories and other such contraints usually reserved for non-fiction works. And remember that setting your story in space and/or the future does not make it sci-fi, it's having the plot CENTER on a scientific theory or such. Think Asimov.

------------------
Check out the following stories over at the Interactive Story Board:
The Never-ending Story Thread or visit the new webcomic version!
The Vision Cycle series
Featured Story: Ideal Nightmare

Quest into new worlds or question the deep parts (and not so deep parts) of life at Merlin's Citadel!

The direct mirroring of the Mars was deliberate. There's no distinctive "up" because that class of ship technically HAS no "up" for redundancy in the case of damage. The confusion aspect was something I never actually considered, and I actually like the concept that it's hard to tell which end has the "main" bridge, making it harder for an opponent to figure out where to point their own guns.

Which guns specifically are you refering too, phoenix? The ones on the aft wall of the wedge might be getting removed anyway since they'd more or less be firing straight back into the engine module (the engine block ended up wider than I expected). If you're talking the ones on the the engine block superstructure between the armor panels those are primarily there to defend against an attack from above. I'll have to take a looksee for any problems.

Actually Ishi, the Mars was already finished on the 18th, I just didn't get around to starting this thread due to an internet provider issue that I'm still having (currently stuck with NetZero).

No, the Event Horizon wasn't referencing the movie although some of my ship names DO involve a private joke or reference (I've got a class of cruisers named entirely after cities from Tolkien, and one of light carriers named for all the men who captained the USS Constitution). The Mars-class are all named after celestial bodies or phenomenon and that just happened to be the last name that popped into my head.

As for good guy/bad guy designs sometimes I like seeing good guys wear black so aesthetic association doesn't mean too much to me.

------------------
Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
http://www.xwaupgrade.com

SaxSoft Productions
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net

Why the hell is everybody completely ripping on Saxman just because his ships look like a variant of a Star Destroyer? You cant say it is a complete rip off because it looks like a Star Destroyer. Even if he DID design it after the SD, so what? Who says he cant make a ship that looks like some other ship somebody else made? Are you going to say cars are ripoffs of other cars just because they resemble each other?

Lay off him, as a long time XWA player I can tell you he knows what he is doing. And by the way, whether they are inspired or not, those are **** nice models, and the story is sounding good too.

------------------

Restless 2

Sanctum de la Mort

[This message has been edited by Dash_rendar (edited July 25, 2003).]

Because a lot of people don't like to see something that appears to be obviously ripped off. It cheapens it for them. The same way people want to buy name brand over generic. We may not have a problem, but other people might.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Eh, lay off him, his models aren't necessarily the most original things I've seen, but frankly, they don't have to be.

I like them, and I enjoy the detail you have in them...you sound like me...in my youth...*sigh*

Having backstories and names of the ships and even going as far as to already having the models to show when you explain all your ideas is quite a step up from some of us, myself included, who do a lot of creative idea creating, but not a lot of actual production of that creativity.

I know some people have been knocking your designs and story, but, although the story does seem a little familiar to be in some points, you're coreect to point out that so much of fiction is stolen, but I think what you're not thinking about is the "redefining the wheel" theory. If you're going to use the ideas, fine. If you're going to come up with ideas that resemble, to some people, ideas already concieved, fine. Just make sure yours has something AMAZINGLY different. Like, give you ships amazing limitations. Why not have the ships only able to move once every hour? Put a HUGE roadblock in your design, or give something that's NEVER been thought of. Sometimes people will just rag on your ideas because of "plausiblity" without relizing that if it was truly "plausible" it would be done, would be going to be done, or would be already finished and adapted into our lifestyle.

My theory, do whatever you think of, without realism, if you have to. People who want high degrees of realism should go out and live. Outside. Where's it not air-conditioned. Where you have to rob markets to get food....

wait...

back to Galaxies...

------------------
MaxisReed
AIM: MaxisReed
ChatOp, EC administrator, and "some sort of god!"

...The only thing that remotely looks like a SD in either ship is the general wedge shape, which is a good shape for a ship due to weapon-angle and placment. Wedge shaped ships have the most range of fire, and the greatest shape for defense (As you may be able to harbor more weapons on a sphere, you are a much larger target, while a wedge is a thin target with still enough firepower).

I personally admire the first ship for its originality! I still think that having the engines so far from the rest of it is a bad descision in design because it leaves a large weak spot, like the neck of a human. Still looks wicket cool.

I'm requesting, because of your awesome knowledge of SW, a group of 5 ship types that the Underground Resistance could use. 2 of the ships would have to be larger vesseles for harboring ships, while the other 3 should be X-wing sized. You of course don't have to do it, I'm just requesting. (I take it you're familiar with the Underground Resistance, and realize they're a low buget terrorist group with a peacful grasp on things)

JediKirby


------------------
Epic: Episode I TC, Epic: Podracing Mod MP/SP, Epic: Starbattles Mod MP/SP

Nice models.

------------------
"Gotta love the part when 20 guys come out of that Jeep Wrangler." -THRAWN

Nice...
NOW! Texture them!!!

/Edward
*me sing varients of the Imperial March each time I see a model...

Hey, Sax! Great job on those things, whether they might compare to! Is there any slight possibility you bring them out for XWA?

Although ... how many faces do they have?!?

------------------
UPMF Supreme Commander Vince Trageton
The Blue Phantom

SaxHulk hate NetZero! SAXHULK SMAAAAAASH!!! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!

Maxis: The energy drain required for supralight travel limits how many times a ship can "jump" I've added is sorta similar to those lines. The fact that no ships have energy shielding and must rely entirely on armor is another (serious limitations on armoring and arming ships, etc).

The problem with a lot of SciFi tech is that somewhere it's based on REAL hypotheses and theories, so it's pretty much impossible to "invent" new science. Now my supralight travel isn't exactly like Star Wars hyperspace, Star Trek's warp drive, (or transwarp, for that matter which uses the transporter beam) or Farscape's StarBurst and Wormhole Technology. As far as I know "shrinking" space hasn't ever been done in any particularly PROMINENT SciFi movie/story.

Kirbs: Sounds intriguing. I'd had an idea for a small fast-attack craft inspired by the Klingong Bird of Prey taken to the extreme (more hawk-like in appearance, removing the long neck, adding two legs that can be used to walk on the ground AND physically grab and lift obects like a ship, with the main engines mounted in a bird-like tail that can pivot to control attitude) kicking around my head for a long time that I'd been meaning to actually build (concept is a custom pirate ship devoting all internal space to weapons, shields and engines, and using the landing "legs" to capture cargo). Unfortunately until I get my normal Internet provider back I'm not able to do much of anything.

Ed: These are really just concept models, not intending to be textured or put into a game.

Trags!!! Whazaaaaaap! And to answer your question about XWA... I think the last time I checked the Trafalgar had more meshes than most XWA OPTs have quad faces.

So, no.

And now that I've graciously received another ten hours of access this month from NutZero I'll have screens of the Confederacy's third, final and oldest class of battleship, the Kyushu, up by the end of the weekend.

------------------
Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
http://www.xwaupgrade.com

SaxSoft Productions
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net

I read something on that subject once... may have been in the New York Times. It said that it is realisticly possible to make something akin to a warp drive. Several scientists worked out that by compressing the space between the front of a ship and its destination and expanding the space between the back of the ship and the point of departure, a ship could actually travel huge distances in a very short period of time. The only problem: all of the energy produced in one day by all the power sources on the planet could only move a conventional space shuttle .001 inches. So much for that idea.

Bottom line: unless you've got some insane powersource, your ships ain't goin' nowhere.

...at the end of a long, straight, and narrow trench?

The exaust port I can see, in fact, with it being so small, I would of thought there had been more of them. What I can't see is the trench leading up to it. I mean, that's just begging a fighter to slip into the trench, fly straight, line up a shot, and fire (at a target that is leaning toward the fighter, no less).

So yeah, I have to side with Ishionu on the issue of movie concept artist design more cosmetically rather then logically.

The Saxman, I don't care what anyone else says, the models rock!

People, if you don't like the models, please, don't even comment (even if you claim it's constructive), because your response is going to be biased of your dislike for the models. If you truly do like the models, but have suggestions, then that is constructive and I'm sure is welcomed by 'The Saxman.'

I'm done.



------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

Sometimes I wonder why you post...

Ok, this post needed elaborations. Friend14, not everyone is going to like something someone makes, and that's simply a fact. SaxMan, if anyone, knows this. You can't ask those that don't agree to not post, it's just not logical. You're going to get generally biased oppinions FOR the models. People are fed up with the positive side of things too much, if you don't get the negative, you're never going to have 2 ACTUAL sides of something.

JediKirby

------------------
Epic: Episode I TC, Epic: Podracing Mod MP/SP, Epic: Starbattles Mod MP/SP

[This message has been edited by jEDIkIRBY (edited August 01, 2003).]

You have way too much time on your hands...

------------------

"Bantha's are filthy animals.......I don't eat filthy animals."

"Laugh it up Fuzzball!"
-Han Solo

To make you wonder why I post.



The problem is that some of you are nit picking for the sake of nit picking. That is unconstructive and not needed.

There is no way you can convience me that someone who hates the models can give an unbiased opinion.

Secondly, this isn't the discussion forum, no one is looking for "2 ACTUAL sides of something." This is a Showcase Forum and editors come here to get either constructive critque or to simply show everyone what they've been up to. The DO NOT showcase they're work here to have it bashed, which is what a lot of people are doing.



------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

I just had to point this one out...

Emon, has he had any reason NOT to take everything literally?



------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

Oppressed editors unite: Together, our grievances will be heard!

------------------
Tracer - I'm just here for the gasoline...

That...doesn't even make sense.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

It does if you squint your eyes and tilt your head a little bit

------------------

It made perfect sense. He has had absolutly no reason to not take everything that has been said literally. You claim otherwise (that there's been post that shouldn't be taken literally), I'm asking for evidence to support your claim.

------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited August 02, 2003).]

Please reread your posts after you're done typing them, and make sure all of your ideas are down propperly, and aren't scattered throughout your post, that way we might be able to understand them.

JediKirby


------------------
Epic: Episode I TC, Epic: Podracing Mod MP/SP, Epic: Starbattles Mod MP/SP

Evidence to support what? A clearly sarcastic remark was made. What's he going to do, think, "Hmm, should I respond to this sarcastic comment as if it was literal or not?"

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Oh boy... its people like you guys that make me feel good about myself... thanks guys...

------------------
There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.

Where? Please show an example. With the way people respond on these boards, it's near impossible to detect sarcasim in post.

This is what: j/k, , and are for.

jEDIkIRBY, I'm sorry you lack the necessary reading and comprehension skills to understand my post. If you are following the thread and keeping up with what everyone is saying, you should have no problems in being able to follow my post.

------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

Yeah, call him stupid. Good idea.

The only reason you're defending Mr. Saxman here is because you seem to be locked in a perminant grudge match with Emon. Just get over it.

------------------
Tracer - I'm just here for the gasoline...

I think you guys scared Sax away.

------------------


[This message has been edited by Omicron88 (edited August 03, 2003).]

No where in there did I call him stupid. There are sevel different levels of Reading and Comprehension. No where in there did I say that he had none.

And no, I'm defending 'The Saxman' because I've seen this happen to way too many other modelers, some of which no longer showcase here anymore due to that reason.



------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

too much text...nice models

------------------
Save a whale: Harpoon a fat chick.

Any moron can tell you go after me any chance you get. I don't care about what happened in the past, so neither should you.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

WOW. this thread is GREAT!!!1!

anyway. Saxman, the models look nice. yes they resemble other ships. While that kinda makes me wish they were a tad more original, it DOES NOT turn me off from reading you book, or playing you game (if that's what these were for).


Secondly... I hope you have all your ship lists etc. backed up outside massassi .

and Friend14, you DO go after emon. I'm not saying he doesn't throw it right back, but... There's a very good reason he shouldn't take everything literally, and that is that SO much of human (english) speech is hyperbole, idiomatic, or whatever, and if taken in its literal sense would have NO meaning, or a POINTLESS meaning.

------------------
saberopus

[This message has been edited by saberopus (edited August 03, 2003).]

I'm in lurk mode at the moment, have to stretch my allotted available hours out as much as I can.

Personally, I don't care if people like or don't like them, just if they don't like them I'd rather see suggestions on how to improve them instead of just "Your tech concept would never ever work" (without justification of the remark) or "That's stupid" or "That looks/sounds exactly like something else." If someone doesn't like something, then at least give a suggestion.

On the other end of the spectrum, I prefer to see more than just "Awesome" or "You are a God" or *insert random complimentary 1337 text here*. No model is going to be perfect the first time (this is actually the third rebuild of the Trafalgar) and I'm a perfectionist. Whether someone likes a model or not I ALWAYS like to see suggestions for improvement.

------------------
Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
http://www.xwaupgrade.com

SaxSoft Productions
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net

I don't go after you, I can link several cases where I've agreed with you (rare, but it has happend). You, however, do go after me. As evident by your earlier post in this thread, long before I even showed up in here.

The Saxman, sometimes perfectionist need to be told when to stop (for their on good).

You can reach a point to where the tweaking actually makes it look worse, or (if it's for a game) you loose the balance between quality and performance.



------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

Good imagination, models look pretty good, when you texture them be sure to post here. As long as youre having fun keep doing what youre doing

[...And I thought this was a showcase thread not a b**ch at eachother thread, I'm failing to see how some of whats being said here is going to help The Saxman or even pertains to his post(s).

My suggestion, stay on topic or start another thread.]

-Salvation



[This message has been edited by JEDI-Salvation (edited August 03, 2003).]

Hah, I never went after you or attacked you, I made a reference to something stupid you did.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

okay children. now Emon stop picking on your younger brother Friend14. don't make me have to waddle you good. haha you crazy kids.

------------------
"Never look down on anybody unless you helping him up."
-Jesse Jackson

[This message has been edited by st_thomas (edited August 03, 2003).]

Same thing dumbass. And it was still an inaccurate reference.

Oh, and st_thomas, I'm older then Emon so it would have to be the other way around. Scary thought either way, though.


------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited August 04, 2003).]

way...... too...... much...... text......

------------------
"Everyone Dies..."
-Fett

My Website
Brad's Highschool Level
Unfinished Levels For Download