Don't flatter yourself. I singled you out to make my point, that is all.

What are they fighting for? Equal representation in the military draft? More maternity leave for men? A better sizing system for pants? (Man, do women get screwed in that department, its like the designers just assume all women have the same length legs)

The only thing holding women back now are some old vestiges from before that have yet to be shaken off. Time will remove even those.

I'm glad you asked Morgana to elaborate on what exactly they are still fighting for, because I'd really like to know myself. I just can't see anything.

(Assuming the "flaming the movement" comment was not directed to me, I shall not address it)

I don't disagree with most of your statements about rape -- it's a very serious issue, and the pain doesn't stop at the end of the sexual assault.



I'm sorry that we're pointing out the holes in your logic. I've posted something new each time -- you've continued to perpetuate male stereotypes, blanketing and faulting all men for the expectations you believe are in place for women.



It's relevance is weak, at best. Bringing in the movement's past is equivalent to, during a conversation about the Holocaust, bring up the Spanish Inquisition. Neither really have anything to do with each other aside from the fact that Jews were targets of both.

Why the hell does everyone have to be so damn insulting and negative around these threads?

Because nobody likes you.

Because I find it offensive when someone says, "Men are to blame for women being forced to conform to a stereotype," and then turns around and says, "Don't you have a barbecue or football game to go to?"

Thank you for clarifying.


Well, for one thing wages and jobs.
Also, women who are victims of rape are susceptible to have the criminal defense lawyers insult them and call them whores. There was a case that happened in Florida or Georgia or somewhere like that, where a young girl was raped and the criminal defense team was being horrible vicious to her. Trust me, you would all agree that it's seriously f***ed up. The only thing we'd disagree on maybe is whether that's an isolated incident or more widespread.
Otherwise, I'm not exactly sure.


I have to disagree with you and your analogy. It's not like the feminist movement is as well known about as the black rights movement, and maybe if some people saw the original goals and struggles of feminism they might be less judgemental about it.

I'm confident that wages and jobs will even out over time. Women haven't been in the work force that long in the grand scheme of things. I'm not saying I don't think they belong there...but its clear there place hasn't been cemented there. You can't just expect centuries of 'man is bread winner, woman stays home' mentality to disappear overnight, or even in a generation. Given some time society will catch up, but there isn't really much anyone can do to speed that along. The important thing is I don't think there's anything holding that progress back anymore.

The rape thing really has little to do with women at all IMO and points more to flaws in our criminal justice system as a whole. Rape is a horrible crime, and its also a horrible crime to be accused of. Don't make the mistake of viewing even this horrible situation in black and white, everything is shades of gray. Its not common, but certainly not unheard of for a woman cry rape after the fact because a relationship went south. Or to accuse a guy of rape you've never even met before. I read an article in my girlfriend's Cosmo about this topic. One newscaster in some midwestern state was accused of rape by a woman he'd never even met or seen before. He spent over $10,000 in lawyer fees to defend against the charge and his name was still tarnished. Another woman was cheated on by a man from work she was having a secret affair with. In her rage, she accused him of rape.

That's why people scrutinize the witness so much. They have too in order to be an objective jury. Those few women who try and use rape as a weapon have forced us to question the creditibility of the victim. You might say, "Oh, so a few of them get thrown in prison that didn't do it...but we can catch so many more that did!" I'm willing to make that sacrifice.

How would you feel if you were railroaded into prison because some girl you hardly knew accused you of rape? Now you get to rott in prison, and when you get out your life is pretty much trash still anyway. Or even if you mount a successful defense against the bullsh|t charge, something people with little money just plain can't do, your name is still going to be tarnished and you're still going to take a big hit finicially from a the legal fees. It didn't even have to be true or provable to hurt you.

My Psych professor (licensed doctor) had a girl come in to him, expressing severe guilt over being raped twice. First time, she went to a party on campus with a group of friends. She got drunk, and a friend got drunk. He led her outside and raped her, justifying it as, "Everyone goes to parties to get smashed and have sex."

After that, she decided that she just needed to get away for a while, so she went to Hawaii with her parents. While there, she met a nice guy at a dance class. That night, she went to a party with him (sans parents), and, at the end, he offered her a ride home. She accepted, he pulled over at one point and raped her.

She told her dad, and they went to the police. Their response? "We're tired of you mainland girls coming here, seducing our nice boys, and then accusing them of rape." Her dad was so angry that he had to be forcibly removed from the precinct.

When they called and told her fianceé, he said, "I'm not marrying a whore. The engagement is off."

This wasn't to contradict your post, Scorcho, but to drive home the point even further that the pain of rape victims doesn't end with sexual assault. The lack of empathy that so many people have for rape victims is horrible.

I'm not so sure about that, but I don't really know.
You are right about the rape thing. That is a problem as well.

Wolfy, that is horrible. It sounds like her fiancee wouldn't be worth it anyway though. Not that that makes up for everything else, of course.